Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

How do you plan to sustain your new nation?? Who will you trade with?? Will you reconnect with France and will France be your "mother " nation..??

Not a helpful statement. People trade because of necessity, not because of hurt feelings. People will not stopping buying goods because they are made in Quebec and vice versa.

Economically, I think both Canada and Quebec would suffer economically after a split and both would never ever regain the same standing in the world as we have as a united nation.

I personally do not want Quebecers to remain in Canada because of economic fears or convenience. I want Quebecers to stay in Canada because they want to.

Any sovereignist will tell you that they aren't separating because it makes good economic sense, it is a much deeper and more profound reason.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Plus, alone against the American beast....say good by to protectionism of anything, including their language and whatever else makes them "distinct".

indeed. Wonder if they have considered how vulnerable they would be. The US beast would just swallow them up and probably spit out their language.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

Most of your anwsers could be found here.
http://quebeclibre.net
http://quebeclibre.net/pourquoi.html
http://quebeclibre.net/enjeux.html

I read the stuff and frankly, I believe that most objective Quebec wishes to achieve can be done within Canada and the others desires are very superficial in that achieving them will not enhance the lives of the citizens. I mean, one point said that it would be more prestigious to have French as the only national language. French is already the official language of Quebec and the language of the majority. Being independent will not promote the growth of the French language.

Having ~50G$ + in our pockets is not superficial.

So you are saying it's not yet achieve? Can you tell me your plans to help us achieve it? Do you have any plans or ideas to convince us to stay in Canada?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

How do you plan to sustain your new nation?? Who will you trade with?? Will you reconnect with France and will France be your "mother " nation..??

Not a helpful statement. People trade because of necessity, not because of hurt feelings. People will not stopping buying goods because they are made in Quebec and vice versa.

Economically, I think both Canada and Quebec would suffer economically after a split and both would never ever regain the same standing in the world as we have as a united nation.

I personally do not want Quebecers to remain in Canada because of economic fears or convenience. I want Quebecers to stay in Canada because they want to.

Any sovereignist will tell you that they aren't separating because it makes good economic sense, it is a much deeper and more profound reason.

perhaps the statement is not "helpful".......but I am trying to visualize what it would be like with Quebec as a separate and "independant" nation. How would it affect the provinces on the eastern coast.? for eg.

aka.....what if this came to realty??? What are the implications and how far reaching are they?? Or will it even make a ripple in things ??

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

By learning you language, I can now understand your points and how you view things. Learning French is possibly the best way for you to understand my views.

I agree. You cannot chastise cub1c for referring you to French language web pages. I mean the target audience for this topic is francophone Quebecers.

In addition, even with modest French language skills you should be able to get the jist of the text. If all else fails, try a web translating website. At least make an effort to read the French before making such harsh comments. Canada is a billingual nation, where both English and French have equal standing.

 

[cub1c]

Plus, alone against the American beast....say good by to protectionism of anything, including their language and whatever else makes them "distinct".

indeed. Wonder if they have considered how vulnerable they would be. The US beast would just swallow them up and probably spit out their language.

I think that speaking French is the best protection around against US empire. I don't think the ROC is in the best position to tell us how to protect against US, mostly in culture.

 

[Said1]

Plus, alone against the American beast....say good by to protectionism of anything, including their language and whatever else makes them "distinct".

indeed. Wonder if they have considered how vulnerable they would be. The US beast would just swallow them up and probably spit out their language.

I think that speaking French is the best protection around against US empire. I don't think the ROC is in the best position to tell us how to protect against US, mostly in culture.

Protectionism is generally forbidden and certainly frowned upon under Nafta. Taking an arrogant tone with me wont' change that.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Plus, alone against the American beast....say good by to protectionism of anything, including their language and whatever else makes them "distinct".

indeed. Wonder if they have considered how vulnerable they would be. The US beast would just swallow them up and probably spit out their language.

I think that speaking French is the best protection around against US empire. I don't think the ROC is in the best position to tell us how to protect against US, mostly in culture.

interesting point....

 

[Said1]

Plus, alone against the American beast....say good by to protectionism of anything, including their language and whatever else makes them "distinct".

indeed. Wonder if they have considered how vulnerable they would be. The US beast would just swallow them up and probably spit out their language.

I think that speaking French is the best protection around against US empire. I don't think the ROC is in the best position to tell us how to protect against US, mostly in culture.

interesting point....

How so?

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

By learning you language, I can now understand your points and how you view things. Learning French is possibly the best way for you to understand my views.

I agree. You cannot chastise cub1c for referring you to French language web pages. I mean the target audience for this topic is francophone Quebecers.

In addition, even with modest French language skills you should be able to get the jist of the text. If all else fails, try a web translating website. At least make an effort to read the French before making such harsh comments. Canada is a billingual nation, where both English and French have equal standing.

Wow. And from your point of view, honestly, how many people shares the same values as you? Because if it were the majority, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I mean the target audience for this topic is francophone Quebecers.

ok......point taken. If the opinion of the rest of Ca don't matter.........so be it.

have fun.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

Having ~50G$ + in our pockets is not superficial.

So you are saying it's not yet achieve? Can you tell me your plans to help us achieve it? Do you have any plans or ideas to convince us to stay in Canada?

I don't see how you will all of a sudden have 50,000 $ in your pocket through separation. Sure Quebec will save some money from removing itself from the federation, but it will have to pay more to alone maintain separate entities of other services that is currently shared across 10 or 13 jurisdictions.

Canada is a work in progress; our federation is outdated and needs to be reformed completely. No person, English or French would deny this. What is wrong is that we don't have strong leaders to take the led.

Separation may be your right, but to me it seems like a form of quitting. Canada doesn't well work currently, we have proof of this, we can see what is wrong. An independent Quebec is an unknown. We have no idea how it will work, the sovereignist have nothing to be accountable for as of yet because it has not happened.

Separation is a drastic change, and to most Canadians it would be permanent. So Quebecers really have to think and determine if the risk is worth it and see what really would be the gains of the people.

 

[cub1c]

I mean the target audience for this topic is francophone Quebecers.

ok......point taken. If the opinion of the rest of Ca don't matter.........so be it.

have fun.

It matters to me. Do you think I would be wasting my time getting flamed in this forum if not?

 

[Said1]

I mean the target audience for this topic is francophone Quebecers.

ok......point taken. If the opinion of the rest of Ca don't matter.........so be it.

have fun.

It matters to me. Do you think I would be wasting my time getting flamed in this forum if not?

That's the thing. As stated before, you will not respond to questions and then get arrogant, refusing to "educate" us. Why are you here if you wil not participate in a discussion?

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

perhaps the statement is not "helpful".......but I am trying to visualize what it would be like with Quebec as a separate and "independant" nation. How would it affect the provinces on the eastern coast.? for eg.

aka.....what if this came to realty??? What are the implications and how far reaching are they?? Or will it even make a ripple in things ??

A ha! Well that isn't a good reason either. Fighting separation by saying "I don't want you to go because it may have have negative implications on those of us left behind" isn't likely to win much support.

Are Canadians outside of Quebec simply afraid of the possible negative implications of Quebec sepeatation or do they have this passion of a united nation stretching across North America?

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

perhaps the statement is not "helpful".......but I am trying to visualize what it would be like with Quebec as a separate and "independant" nation. How would it affect the provinces on the eastern coast.? for eg.

aka.....what if this came to realty??? What are the implications and how far reaching are they?? Or will it even make a ripple in things ??

A ha! Well that isn't a good reason either. Fighting separation by saying "I don't want you to go because it may have have negative implications on those of us left behind" isn't likely to win much support.

Are Canadians outside of Quebec simply afraid of the possible negative implications of Quebec sepeatation or do they have this passion of a united nation stretching across North America?

Personally, I'm not afraid of separation. I am however concerned about Quebec, economically. This doesn't seem to bother them, but it should.

I fully understand there is more to it than economics, but again, there wil be no nation-state without an economy. The Canadain government will never agree to a shared customs union, which is a part of retaining political and economic ties to Canada and was assumed under the last referendum.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

perhaps the statement is not "helpful".......but I am trying to visualize what it would be like with Quebec as a separate and "independant" nation. How would it affect the provinces on the eastern coast.? for eg.

aka.....what if this came to realty??? What are the implications and how far reaching are they?? Or will it even make a ripple in things ??

A ha! Well that isn't a good reason either. Fighting separation by saying "I don't want you to go because it may have have negative implications on those of us left behind" isn't likely to win much support.

Are Canadians outside of Quebec simply afraid of the possible negative implications of Quebec sepeatation or do they have this passion of a united nation stretching across North America?

I merely ASKED QUESTIONS..........and have not stated my opinion on whether they should go solo or not. Yet.......these simply.......yes SIMPLE questions go unanswered.

for the record......If I want to learn French.....I will, If I don't I won't. It is my choice and yes.......there are plenty of translators for other language sites .......and I freqently use them. (mostly European though) and even THAT Is not the issue here.

If our "separtist " friend here wants to have this dream realized......one would think he would have an idea of how this would be in reality once accomplished. What is the vision?? Still no answer.

what are the short term goals and long term goals. ?? This is not a decision that is made out of emotion only. There would have to be some REASON and PLANNING to it. In fact.......leave the passion out of it.....and let's stick to logic.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

Wow. And from your point of view, honestly, how many people shares the same values as you? Because if it were the majority, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.

There are those who still think like me, but we are in the minority. The fact that this issue has been unresolved for so many decades have left folks on both sides bitter, jaded and synical.

I honestly believe though, that Quebec separation is not the answer for Quebecers and non-Quebecers alike.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Said:"

Personally, I'm not afraid of separation. I am however concerned about Quebec, economically. This doesn't seem to bother them, but it should.

I am not afraid of it either. In fact.......it might just mean a wee ripple or side bar in the news as far as I am concerned. But .....it IS a major objective........and it is apparent that our separatist/whatever friend has not thought it through all that carefully. Correct me if I am wrong.....

the fact that it does not seem to bother them......IS concerning......as it suggests a fantasy..

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

Having ~50G$ + in our pockets is not superficial.

So you are saying it's not yet achieve? Can you tell me your plans to help us achieve it? Do you have any plans or ideas to convince us to stay in Canada?

I don't see how you will all of a sudden have 50,000 $ in your pocket through separation. Sure Quebec will save some money from removing itself from the federation, but it will have to pay more to alone maintain separate entities of other services that is currently shared across 10 or 13 jurisdictions.

Canada is a work in progress; our federation is outdated and needs to be reformed completely. No person, English or French would deny this. What is wrong is that we don't have strong leaders to take the led.

Separation may be your right, but to me it seems like a form of quitting. Canada doesn't well work currently, we have proof of this, we can see what is wrong. An independent Quebec is an unknown. We have no idea how it will work, the sovereignist have nothing to be accountable for as of yet because it has not happened.

Separation is a drastic change, and to most Canadians it would be permanent. So Quebecers really have to think and determine if the risk is worth it and see what really would be the gains of the people.

Sorry, I thought 50G in English meant 50,000,000,000$.

Yes aquiring independance is a drastic change, but how electing Liberals over and over and over is a change? Seriously, look at the future, Liberals will still be in charge for years. And ideoligicaly, for me, I dont adhere to neoliberalism. Where are the choices?

But here, we have a alternative, to take the matters in our hands.

And sometimes, I think to myself that the ROC may be jealous about that.