Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[Vanni Fucci]

I seldom take the trouble to think about separtist losers anymore, except to cast aspersions, but I decided to take a moment and think about what a sovereign Quebec would be like...

A sovereign Quebec would become Canada's Mexico, but with shittier weather...and far more arrogant aliens... :?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I really wish I understood this issue, but try as I might, and I have, for over 30 years, I still can't make sense of it, and that troubles me deeply. I am pleased and proud and grateful to be a Canadian, for the life of extraordinary comfort and privilege it's given me and the doors it's opened in other countries--mostly European, and one African--I've visited. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to be a Canadian? What could possibly motivate the Québécois to want to leave?

Is it language and culture? I understand those I think, having been in very foreign places where English isn't commonly spoken or written and finding myself to be functionally illiterate (an enlightening experience everyone ought to have, BTW). Jeez, spend some time in Germany, unable to speak or read German except for the trivia in the guide book, then see how you feel when you're at the airport in Frankfurt waiting to catch a flight back to Calgary, and that big Air Canada 747 pulls up to the gate and you see that big maple leaf on the tail and the Canadian flight crew comes walking by and you want to run up to them and start talking because they're the only Canadians you've seen for a month... Is that the kind of thing it's about? My children went to French immersion schools and are both fluently bilingual in English and French; does that help? Or do Québécois view that as patronizing? Or threatening? Or what?

I briefly thought I had a grip on it when I heard Parizeau's remarks about money and the ethnic vote after the referendum a decade ago. "Aha," I thought, "it's essentially racism." But no, that can't be right, there are some deeply thoughtful and intelligent people (Parizeau is not among them; neither is Bouchard) who are also separatists. I've had long and detailed and confusing and depressing conversations with Quebec separatists about the reasons for being separatist, and somehow real understanding still eludes me.

I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? Does sovereignty mean something different in English and French? Do you think you can separate but keep your dairy quotas in Ontario, and the Canadian dollar, and access to Canadian military forces in emergencies, and be grandfathered into all the treaties Canada's a signatory of, and continue to maintain a special relationship with Canada that gives you privileges no other nation on the planet has with any other? How is that different from the special status you already have within Canada? What the Hell do you want, really?

It often looks to me like what you want is all the benefits and none of the costs of being a Canadian province. I'm not convinced that's a legitimate conclusion, but I'm not convinced it's wrong either.

What is your case?

 

[Booh]

It often looks to me like what you want is all the benefits and none of the costs of being a Canadian province.

They simply want all the benfits of being a country without any of the drawbacks.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

All I know for sure, Dex, is that if you chance upon a Quebecois speaking French, don't turn to them and say "Excuse me, but could you please say that in Canadian..."

They don't like that very much...

 

[cub1c]

RE: Québec's destiny will

You are all good example of why Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

If only Québécois knew how the ROC views them!

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

If only Québécois knew how the ROC views them!

So what? You're not really as arrogant as your posting suggests?

 

[cub1c]

RE: Québec's destiny will

Vanni, calling Québécois loosers and alien is probably a good example of respect between our societys for you, but not me.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

You are all good example of why Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

If only Québécois knew how the ROC views them!

......they'd be a whole lot more careful about trying to pull the country apart.

Which was my point at the first of this thread.

 

[cub1c]

RE: Québec's destiny will

Having people calling Québécois names, saying they'll loose everything, threatening them of violence, use of racism, tell them they aren't bright enough to govern a country when the US can, and then saying Québécois are the arrogants is beyond my knowledge.

Colpy, fear tactics if thing of the past. It won't work in Québec and will probably do the opposite. It even brings me smiles when I hear them.

 

[Andem]

I'm sorry to join this thread with such a negative view, but the "oui" side of this arguement is not even arguing or debating quite valid points regarding the separation of Quebec from Canada.

He can't answer any questions about economics.
He can't answer any questions about Canadian property on Quebec soil.
He can't answer anything regarding the probably outcome of Canada's saying NO to Quebec's desire to continue to be part of the Canadian economy.
He does NOT recognise that Quebec is a have-not province.

Atleast Numure (my fav. separatist ) attempts to answer to some of these points, of which I don't agree with anyways.

So cub1c, why don't you answer or clarify some of the points I've just listed? This thread will then just continue on the same points of which have been killed to death on these forums.





I think any outcome of a successful sucession from Canada would make the Ottawa/Hull region look like Berlin 1990. Ottawa would be the West and Quebec would be the East... give it 10-15 years.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

I'm sorry to join this thread with such a negative view, but the "oui" side of this arguement is not even arguing or debating quite valid points regarding the separation of Quebec from Canada.

He can't answer any questions about economics.
He can't answer any questions about Canadian property on Quebec soil.
He can't answer anything regarding the probably outcome of Canada's saying NO to Quebec's desire to continue to be part of the Canadian economy.
He does NOT recognise that Quebec is a have-not province.

Atleast Numure (my fav. separatist ) attempts to answer to some of these points, of which I don't agree with anyways.

So cub1c, why don't you answer or clarify some of the points I've just listed? This thread will then just continue on the same points of which have been killed to death on these forums.

I think any outcome of a successful sucession from Canada would make the Ottawa/Hull region look like Berlin 1990. Ottawa would be the West and Quebec would be the East... give it 10-15 years.

First, this is no debate at all. I'm the only one on my side here and I don't think I alone can represent the sovereignist option. Therefore, my experience on this forum about trying to educate ROC on Québec's nationalism is that it's a complete waste of time, stressful, and only makes me more angry at ROC and their citizen.

If I really had time to spread and explain the sovereignty option, you can be sure I won't be loosing time here to do it. All of my resources would be directed to those who matters, those who will decide, the Québécois.

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

First, this is no debate at all. I'm the only one on my side here and I don't think I alone can represent the sovereignist option. Therefore, my experience on this forum about trying to educate ROC on Québec's nationalism is that it's a complete waste of time, stressful, and only makes me more angry at ROC and their citizen.

...

Think how it feels when we hear Quebecois whining, day in, day out.

 

[Andem]

Well, Quebec is part of Canada and there are people from Quebec on these forums. I, myself am an ex-montrealer. So what exactly are you talking about, wasting your time here? Whats the point of this whole thread then?

You aren't presenting any valid points about Quebec nationalism and you certainly aren't presenting your case very well.

Are you just stressed because your points are being struck down? Thats what a forum is all about.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

All of my resources would be directed to those who matters, those who will decide, the Québécois.

_________________
"Canada is too small for Québec, we want the world."
- Pierre Bourgault

apart from your sig. being very revealing about "character".........what is it that the Quebecois WANT??? Would appreciate a list of all those wants /needs that for some reason are not being met. Would you be "happy" if all your wants were met?? How do you know?? Thanks.

 

[missile]

Blackmailers are never satisfied until the victim has nothing left. I understand that montreal wants billions to renovate the city from the Feds,of course

 

[missile]

I seldom take the trouble to think about separtist losers anymore, except to cast aspersions, but I decided to take a moment and think about what a sovereign Quebec would be like...

A sovereign Quebec would become Canada's Mexico, but with shittier weather...and far more arrogant aliens... :?

Look at the advantages they'll have: they can swim the rivers into two countries to find work

 

[PoisonPete2]

it appears cubc1 only came on to say that it didn't matter what anyone says, Quebec will choose its own course. So there is no opening for debate, which is the nature of a forum. It is though, clear evidence of a mindset of many in the sovereignist movement, an emotional appeal with no real concept of process. This is a very devisive topic and one could anticipate vitriolic response. Though Quebecois will shape their destiny, that will only be accomplished after much negotiation. Given the responses in this threat it would likely be in a much smaller plot of land, with much poorer people who don't have a friend in sight. That's life!!

 

[Ocean Breeze]

there is that old addage... "be careful what you ask for........you might get it." :wink:

 

[cub1c]

RE: Québec's destiny will

I don't understand why you think I have to convince you of anything. It is a Québec debate. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD.

Sorry but it isn't MY case. It's the case of the majority of Québecers, and 70% of the Québec's francophones.

Stressed because my points are strucked down here? Let me laugh. It would have been stupid to think you would have reacted in another way. It's like going into a republican convention and trying to convince them that god doesn't exist. I didn't expect any kind of understanding from the biased users of this forum.

Missile, thanks for the blackmailer adjective, I'll add it to my list.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

I don't understand why you think I have to convince you of anything. It is a Québec debate. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD.

Sorry but it isn't MY case. It's the case of the majority of Québecers, and 70% of the Québec's francophones.

Stressed because my points are strucked down here? Let me laugh. It would have been stupid to think you would have reacted in another way. It's like going into a republican convention and trying to convince them that god doesn't exist. I didn't expect any kind of understanding from the biased users of this forum.

Missile, thanks for the blackmailer adjective, I'll add it to my list.

the Quebec issue is NOT just a Quebec Issue........as what Quebec does, wants etc affects the entire country.