Quebec Sucks

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efork_1983@hotmail.com

New Member
Oct 31, 2004
3
0
1
Montréal, Québec
3vil, well, I agree with some of the things you said, but other things no. I don't think it's useful for people in Canada to learn French and we can't really blame them for not learning French. We all learned English because is IS useful to learn English especially when you live in Quebec. Yet, it's not very useful to learn French when you live in Winnipeg, Vancouver, or Ottawa. Sure, in Montreal you HAVE to be able to receive any service in both languages, but the anglophones/francophones ratio justifies it. Now go to Quebec City and even though you're supposed to get services in both languages, one will have a hard time getting served in English. Still, that's okay since virtually no one speaks English in Quebec City. Now the real problem is that about 40% of the anglophones in Quebec don't speak French (Statistic Canada 2002). When you live in Quebec learning French is as important as learning German when you live in Germany.

And for your question ("Why can't we understand ourselves in the same country"), here's my answer.
C'est parce qu'on n'est pas dans le même pays. Le Québec est sérieusement beaucoup plus qu'une simple "société distincte" et il serait temps que les Québécois arrêtent d'être aussi naïfs et prennent leur propre destin en main. J'ai beaucoup de misère à comprendre comment tout un peuple peut ainsi oublier l'histoire, être sous l'autorité d'une reine dont on se christ, encore subir des tentatives d'assimilation (de la proclamation royale au 17e siècle aux programme des commandites au 21e siècle) et ne pas encore agir comme un peuple souverain.

Anyway, there's so much to say about this issue.
 
I

Isengard

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2004
414
0
16
Montréal, Canada
www.nicolasgagnon.com
While Europe is becoming a union, people here are still trying to separate for old conflicts that are not even current. The world would be nice if everyone who has a different something from other people in a country would separate because they claim to be different. I think we would end up with like 10000 countries on the earth. Before thinking about getting separation and having our own national anthem as our dumb Bernard Landry suggested 1 or 2 weeks ago, could they at least try a little bit to do something good when they are in power? Maybe that would help their cause... Or maybe not, maybe people would suddenly think, "Hey, everything is going so well, why separate?". That must be why they keep doing a bad job, so people thinks that it is all because of Canada!

Blame Canada nah nah nah nah
 
N

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Isengard said:
While Europe is becoming a union, people here are still trying to separate for old conflicts that are not even current. The world would be nice if everyone who has a different something from other people in a country would separate because they claim to be different. I think we would end up with like 10000 countries on the earth. Before thinking about getting separation and having our own national anthem as our dumb Bernard Landry suggested 1 or 2 weeks ago, could they at least try a little bit to do something good when they are in power? Maybe that would help their cause... Or maybe not, maybe people would suddenly think, "Hey, everything is going so well, why separate?". That must be why they keep doing a bad job, so people thinks that it is all because of Canada!

Blame Canada nah nah nah nah
Click to expand...

For Canada to work, having two major cultures, the federal Goverment needs to be decentralised. You know why the EU will work? Because it is being done in respect of all the different cultures. If Canada could take a pth of reform, similar to what the EU is tring to achieve, then the seperatist cause will be forgoten. The hole issue of independance is quite a big one, and cannot be simplified to what you have posted. Things havnt changed as much as they should, or else no one would be supporting seperation anymore. Do you think half the Québec population is idiotic because they do? If some one supports something, they have a reason. Try to find out why.
 
N

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Re: RE: Quebec Sucks

Isengard said:
Well, half the US population still trust George W. Bush. That says enough...
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Are we the US? People have different opinions then others. Different values. That explains why half the US population supports Bush. He doesnt represent mine, and amasingly, doesnt represent that of most the planèts population. Just half of the US.
 
I

Isengard

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2004
414
0
16
Montréal, Canada
www.nicolasgagnon.com
I didn't say we are the US, but you pointed that half the people here are in favor of separation(I'd like a real survey to show me this fact) and were wondering if that makes them idiots. Even if 98% of the people were in favor, would that mean that they are right?

So, yeah, maybe half of this province are idiots.
 
Andem

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
From what I've heard from some separatists, they've somewhat uninformed and everything and anything they come up with politcally comes from something the PQ has said. I've met very few who actually come up with well-informed opinions, however much I may disagree with them.
 
I

Isengard

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2004
414
0
16
Montréal, Canada
www.nicolasgagnon.com
Difference doesn't mean you need to separate. Take any province in Canada and you will find differences with the next one.

Play the seller with me and try to make me buy separation with 3 facts, known ones, not paranoid PQ propaganda. Give me 3 things that we don't have right now and which would change our lives positively here in Quebec if we get separated.

I'll be waiting...
 
N

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Re: RE: Quebec Sucks

Isengard said:
Difference doesn't mean you need to separate. Take any province in Canada and you will find differences with the next one.

Play the seller with me and try to make me buy separation with 3 facts, known ones, not paranoid PQ propaganda. Give me 3 things that we don't have right now and which would change our lives positively here in Quebec if we get separated.

I'll be waiting...
Click to expand...

1) Full control over our own economy. Example: If we wanted to Nationalise the railroad industry to Optimize its use (Could also make it electrique) reducing costs for compagnies and reducing the population and damages done to roads due to Heavy load trucks. We could do it (Its an idea, that is out there. Mostly among my generation within the party). Right now, we can't. Its a federal power, and to be able to... The provincial goverment would have to fight with the feds as usual.

2) No more bickering between goverments, less bureaucracy for shared powers (at the end, lower costs). Right now, we share alot of things with the federal goverment, that ultimitly is the same. But we pay twice. Health Services, education (This is because the feds arnt minding their own business), immigration (shared power) foreign affairs... We don't need two ministries for each.

3) We we're lucky for the war in Iraq. The majority of our population, and a smaller majority of the Canadian population was against it. Jean was also in power, so that helped. What happens next time? We could be imposed a war, like the south african war, WW1 and 2. It was imposed on us, when the majority of our population wanted nothing to do with it. There will be a next time, when a war is forced on us.

4) We could (If enough of the population supports it) Join the EU. Seeing as the values of the Europeen community co-incides with our own, it wouldnt be much of a change. Of course, that wouldnt be done from one day to the next. Still could be a possibility. Being in Canada, we can't. The majority of the country feels more attached to the US, then to Europe.

I can think of alot more, I could continue if you wish?
 
N

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Also, I agree with you. I dislike Bernard Landry as well. He wont be there for long, I hope. François Legault is closer to my own thoughts of the direction the party should be going. He is young (older then me, but still) and the we need younger blood.

As for the idiots that call themselves idiots? Well theirs just as much on the other side. You will notice, that at the conventions and true members of the PQ and BQ, are much more intelligent, and ready to discuss or debate point by point, with openess and intelligence why we should seperate. Idiots are everywhere, don't be stupider by associating stupidity with a cause.
 
I

Isengard

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2004
414
0
16
Montréal, Canada
www.nicolasgagnon.com
Re: RE: Quebec Sucks

Numure said:
1) Full control over our own economy. Example: If we wanted to Nationalise the railroad industry to Optimize its use (Could also make it electrique) reducing costs for compagnies and reducing the population and damages done to roads due to Heavy load trucks. We could do it (Its an idea, that is out there. Mostly among my generation within the party). Right now, we can't. Its a federal power, and to be able to... The provincial goverment would have to fight with the feds as usual.
Click to expand...

If I look at the way we're managing our economy, I don't think that is a point for the separatists. Look at our health system, which is run provincially, like the education. How can I trust a government that tax my income while I already pay to the federal? How to trust the same governement who is taxing the sale tax with the GST. Did you know that others provinces don't?

Numure said:
2) No more bickering between goverments, less bureaucracy for shared powers (at the end, lower costs). Right now, we share alot of things with the federal goverment, that ultimitly is the same. But we pay twice. Health Services, education (This is because the feds arnt minding their own business), immigration (shared power) foreign affairs... We don't need two ministries for each.
Click to expand...

The only thing we share with the federal is the money that they take from the rich provinces to give back to us. They have no word in the decision we take. And as I said, only Quebec pays twice, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Quebec the only province to have a provincial income tax?

Numure said:
3) We we're lucky for the war in Iraq. The majority of our population, and a smaller majority of the Canadian population was against it. Jean was also in power, so that helped. What happens next time? We could be imposed a war, like the south african war, WW1 and 2. It was imposed on us, when the majority of our population wanted nothing to do with it. There will be a next time, when a war is forced on us.
Click to expand...

Because if we separate, that means that there will never be a pro-war prime minister in Quebec?? That is utopic!! Also, if a war as huge as WWII should happened, you would rather have us watch it through the tv? I think Hitler would have like the idea

Numure said:
4) We could (If enough of the population supports it) Join the EU. Seeing as the values of the Europeen community co-incides with our own, it wouldnt be much of a change. Of course, that wouldnt be done from one day to the next. Still could be a possibility. Being in Canada, we can't. The majority of the country feels more attached to the US, then to Europe.
Click to expand...

Why ask for our independence to embark on a similar pattern?? Do you think that EU members are free to go as they please and do what they please? They have rules set in place by the union that they have to follow... So why not follow similar rules in Canada?

Numure said:
I can think of alot more, I could continue if you wish?
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Well, you didn't convince me at all. When I look at our provincial government, be it Liberals or PQ or ADQ, I see nothing interesting, they're all in there for the power and the money if they can get their hands on it. If they at least tried to make a difference, to bring Quebec ahead of the others so that we could feel like we're doing something more. Why not take a real stand for our ecology? Why do as the rest of them and talk, talk, talk the same empty speech that changes nothing.... Why do we keep selling ourselves to the US if we want to be so "independent". But, all I can see is that we put social programs in place so that the lazy ass who's on social security for the past 10 years can send his children to the nursery at 7$ a day paid by my income taxes. Why not think take a stand against those abuse and think for our future? To make it better? There's too much ugly things going on, and that is in any government, sovereign or not, to think of a futile thing as separation.

So since we're doing what most of the people on this earth are doing, that is steal the money from the working class, why would I get in the trouble of separation to get stolen by a new, sovereign government?
 
J

jamie

Electoral Member
Oct 22, 2004
185
0
16
the wang


I think Quebecois can seperate from Canada if they want, so long as they leave the land behind!!!!! :wink:

P.S. Gnuman, you are an ass-and you just proved yourself to be one. You said:
"Don't be an American by singling out everyone because of a few people, thats prejudice. "

Well, love, that statement itself is prejudiced, and you completely contradicted yourself....dumbass.
 
H

hollaback

New Member
Sep 23, 2004
39
0
6
NS
Jamie you are awesome. None of us are French, so we don't know what it is like to from Quebec. How would you like people from your own country telling you to leave...that would suck. That's like me saying lets get rid of BC cause they are too american for Canada....come on now, how can anyone call themselves a Canadian when we are that hateful to someone else. I am ashamed of anyone who posted anything bad about the Quebecers...you should all take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you belong in Canada
 
R

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Yeah, that's pretty damned bizarre all right, Facts. I kind of wonder what audience he thinks he playing to...I can't imagine a lot of people supporting him on that.
 
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