Quebec Sucks
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RE: Quebec %^$@&$
Are we in a mess or what?
By
James Bredin
The extortionate equalization ransom was paid,
And as Canadians, we thought we had it made in the shade,
Because referendums are forbidden except in Quebec,
But storm clouds are gathering in that province if you check.
Because unquestioned High Court appointees can change all the laws,
Their decisions can’t be questioned as though they have no flaws,
So why bother with politicians who make a lot of noise?
Who vote the party agenda and be one of the boys.
Where cabinet members can be bought by offering them a job,
Someone in Ottawa, an MP or any passing slob,
As High Court judges just decide what is right and what is wrong,
Where party politicians go through the motions and feel strong.
Then Adscam came and showed us what politicians were about,
Gave the separatist in Quebec an awful lot of clout,
They say they’re going to conduct wide-ranging dialogues,
Eventually they might write it in French in their blogs.
Because separatist are on their way to Referendum Three,
Will they get their fifty percent plus and then all agree?
Or will Ottawa make a deal and try to buy them all off?
Double the equalization ransom from those at the trough.
Saturday, June 18, 2005
http://shamus11.blogspot.com/
http://jimbredin.blogspot.com/
http://tinyurl.com/e2dlz
Are we in a mess or what?
By
James Bredin
The extortionate equalization ransom was paid,
And as Canadians, we thought we had it made in the shade,
Because referendums are forbidden except in Quebec,
But storm clouds are gathering in that province if you check.
Because unquestioned High Court appointees can change all the laws,
Their decisions can’t be questioned as though they have no flaws,
So why bother with politicians who make a lot of noise?
Who vote the party agenda and be one of the boys.
Where cabinet members can be bought by offering them a job,
Someone in Ottawa, an MP or any passing slob,
As High Court judges just decide what is right and what is wrong,
Where party politicians go through the motions and feel strong.
Then Adscam came and showed us what politicians were about,
Gave the separatist in Quebec an awful lot of clout,
They say they’re going to conduct wide-ranging dialogues,
Eventually they might write it in French in their blogs.
Because separatist are on their way to Referendum Three,
Will they get their fifty percent plus and then all agree?
Or will Ottawa make a deal and try to buy them all off?
Double the equalization ransom from those at the trough.
Saturday, June 18, 2005
http://shamus11.blogspot.com/
http://jimbredin.blogspot.com/
http://tinyurl.com/e2dlz
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
it's ok
no really i said claim to know because i've an article two weeks ago exposing that most of french who say that they know english in their resume are not able to have a simple conversation in english...
that's what one my friend call : i speak english by moton because i manque de pratique :lol:
Said1 said:That's funny, "claim" to know.
No offense of course.
it's ok
no really i said claim to know because i've an article two weeks ago exposing that most of french who say that they know english in their resume are not able to have a simple conversation in english...that's what one my friend call : i speak english by moton because i manque de pratique :lol:
Re: Quebec %^$@&$
i dont know if it was Pea had in mind, but after the conquest in 1763 the catholic church clergy, hoping to keep the power they had, have done anything they could to keep the canadians (yeah remember that back then, a canadian was automatically french, no english would lower themself to call them self that way) calm. they were inducing the idea that power, money and ambition was evil, that we should leave that to the english, and that a good catholic must keep is mind on traditionnal values : have a farm, and lot's of children. The priest of your town could go at your home and ask that you produce more baby if you werent "fertile" enough. It work so well, that almost all the money and power in quebec stay in english hands until around 1950, keeping frenchs in a submissive low lifestyle...
Jay said:
i dont know if it was Pea had in mind, but after the conquest in 1763 the catholic church clergy, hoping to keep the power they had, have done anything they could to keep the canadians (yeah remember that back then, a canadian was automatically french, no english would lower themself to call them self that way) calm. they were inducing the idea that power, money and ambition was evil, that we should leave that to the english, and that a good catholic must keep is mind on traditionnal values : have a farm, and lot's of children. The priest of your town could go at your home and ask that you produce more baby if you werent "fertile" enough. It work so well, that almost all the money and power in quebec stay in english hands until around 1950, keeping frenchs in a submissive low lifestyle...
WulF-Krigan said:
You're pretty ignorant if you think that french people only live in Quebec. As far as I'm concerned, New-Brunswick is the only province in Canada that is bilingual. With that said 35% of the population over there speaks french.
I still can't beleive to this date that people will hate people basically on the language. Seriously guys, we're in 2005.. I think that we're civilized enough to stop this childish bullshit.
Re: Quebec %^$@&$
Wow... I can't believe I read this entire thread. Alot of the comments make me rather sick to my stomach, and, really, there's not much to be said for vitriol spewed over the internet. Haters gotta hate.
However:
1) There is some confusion between the concept of "nation" and "country". These are not the same thing, and, indeed the distinction is at the heart of federalism. French Canadians clearly comprise a nation; Quebec is by most reasonable standards a nation. Both Quebeckers and French Canadians are citizens of the country called "Canada".
2) It is actually not much of a stretch to understand why the separatist (or sovereignist, if you prefer) movement has so much traction in Quebec. Part of it is historical, and has to do with an effort of emancipation of an unpriviledged majority against a foreign elite. Much of this was accomplished during the Quiet Revolution, but the momentum from that continues to this day. Few Quebeckers can rationally claim that they are currently "oppressed" by Anglo elites, but there's a long history that has bred distrust and solidarity. When my father lived in Montreal in the 50s he saw signs that said "White spoken here only". Can you begin to see why resentment and distrust might have flourished? Leaving that aside, there are many currents that drive nationalist sentiment. Among others: a desire for smaller, more representative political associations, bred from the alienation fostered by an over-reaching, over-centralised federal government; a absence of identification with English Canada or Canada proper; the vision of an automous, culturally and economically rich, liberal, open and diverse Quebec (even if you personally feel that this is unrealistic, it is counter-productive and foolish to simply dismiss people who have such a strong, positive vision as fools).
3) To be sure, there are nasty currents to Quebec nationalism as well. Many nationalist movements can get ugly and racist quickly. Personally, I am quite troubled that, although I consider myself Quebecois (and Canadian), to many hardliners in Quebec, I could never be "truly" Quebecois, because I am not of pure French descent. The concepts of "pure laine" and "Quebecois de souche" are inherently rascist, and this ugly element of the sovereignist movement has not been entirely banished (recall Jacques Parizeau's famous comments about the "ethnic vote").
I think it is crucial for anyone who believes that Quebec is an essential part of Canada to make a determined effort to understand the appeal of Quebec nationalism. It is a rational and cogent position, and denying or denigrating this does your cause absolutely no good at all. On the other hand, if you can appreciate the spirit that most Quebecois feel to a certain degree (bear in mind that many, many people voted "no" even though they had great sympathy for sovereignity), then we can move forward. Perhaps we need to re-assess the way federalism works in this country: many sovereignists have pointed to the EU as a possible model of sovereign nations forming a strong political association. But we get absolutely nowhere with ignorance, hate and willful failure to appreciate where others are coming from.
Wow... I can't believe I read this entire thread. Alot of the comments make me rather sick to my stomach, and, really, there's not much to be said for vitriol spewed over the internet. Haters gotta hate.
However:
1) There is some confusion between the concept of "nation" and "country". These are not the same thing, and, indeed the distinction is at the heart of federalism. French Canadians clearly comprise a nation; Quebec is by most reasonable standards a nation. Both Quebeckers and French Canadians are citizens of the country called "Canada".
2) It is actually not much of a stretch to understand why the separatist (or sovereignist, if you prefer) movement has so much traction in Quebec. Part of it is historical, and has to do with an effort of emancipation of an unpriviledged majority against a foreign elite. Much of this was accomplished during the Quiet Revolution, but the momentum from that continues to this day. Few Quebeckers can rationally claim that they are currently "oppressed" by Anglo elites, but there's a long history that has bred distrust and solidarity. When my father lived in Montreal in the 50s he saw signs that said "White spoken here only". Can you begin to see why resentment and distrust might have flourished? Leaving that aside, there are many currents that drive nationalist sentiment. Among others: a desire for smaller, more representative political associations, bred from the alienation fostered by an over-reaching, over-centralised federal government; a absence of identification with English Canada or Canada proper; the vision of an automous, culturally and economically rich, liberal, open and diverse Quebec (even if you personally feel that this is unrealistic, it is counter-productive and foolish to simply dismiss people who have such a strong, positive vision as fools).
3) To be sure, there are nasty currents to Quebec nationalism as well. Many nationalist movements can get ugly and racist quickly. Personally, I am quite troubled that, although I consider myself Quebecois (and Canadian), to many hardliners in Quebec, I could never be "truly" Quebecois, because I am not of pure French descent. The concepts of "pure laine" and "Quebecois de souche" are inherently rascist, and this ugly element of the sovereignist movement has not been entirely banished (recall Jacques Parizeau's famous comments about the "ethnic vote").
I think it is crucial for anyone who believes that Quebec is an essential part of Canada to make a determined effort to understand the appeal of Quebec nationalism. It is a rational and cogent position, and denying or denigrating this does your cause absolutely no good at all. On the other hand, if you can appreciate the spirit that most Quebecois feel to a certain degree (bear in mind that many, many people voted "no" even though they had great sympathy for sovereignity), then we can move forward. Perhaps we need to re-assess the way federalism works in this country: many sovereignists have pointed to the EU as a possible model of sovereign nations forming a strong political association. But we get absolutely nowhere with ignorance, hate and willful failure to appreciate where others are coming from.
Re: Quebec %^$@&$
just have to add a note here, that i think i might have post somewhere else before... Parizeau quote on ethnic vote is the most misunterpreted quote that exist. What he had in mind that night was not that all people who have immigrate here cause the defeat. but he was thinking about the rush for releasing immigrants in quebec with a certificate to vote a few week before the referendum.
just have to add a note here, that i think i might have post somewhere else before... Parizeau quote on ethnic vote is the most misunterpreted quote that exist. What he had in mind that night was not that all people who have immigrate here cause the defeat. but he was thinking about the rush for releasing immigrants in quebec with a certificate to vote a few week before the referendum.
RE: Quebec %^$@&$
Right. I see lotsa posts & comments from people who don't actually live here in Quebec and let me first say that as an Anglophone living here it's difficult at times.
I moved here in 1990 with the intention of learning the language. You know, our of respect and such.
What I noticed however was anytime I even so much as attempted to speak "their language", I was hit with snide and rude comments and remarks.
I figured this was just a few bad apples, but as time went on I soon realized this is actually how they are. Arrogant, rude and mean. but why then are they enforcing everyone here to speak their language?
My overall thoughts and opinions ended up just accepting that "the french are just shitheads".
Years later, and still living here of course, dating a french girl (she's bilingual) and working a very nice job, I've realized certain things:
The French here are actually scared shitless that their "culture" may end up wiped out. So granted, they'll do what they feel is necessary to preserve it. However when their moronic laws impose on the rights of others (as someone else here pointed out), how the hell could it NOT anger Anglos living here?
The Language Police? This has got to be the most pathetic form of Culteral Preservation I have ever witnessed. Not only do these whining little parasites walk around checking merchant signs and advertisement font sizes for "acceptable format", but now they've begun HARRASSING business owners who, have been in business in Quebec for averages of 30 years and up for not speaking French "good enough". 30 years man!
You know what i think this boils down to? the fact that a Quebec Business owners have a reputation for failing miserably at their own businesses, and it pisses them off completely to see a family of Greeks or Italians (for exmaple) running a successful businss.
Not all Quebecers however are as bad as they say. Some actually had the kahunas to stay in school, get that education and learn how to think rationally. Which i think is a major problem here with the MINORTY of Francophones who actually have that pipe dream of becoming a separate country.
I wouldn't say I 'hate" Quebec, but I firmly believe that if Quebec separatists were to explore outside the thickness of their own heads for even a day, things would change drastically.
Yesterday was St Jean Baptist day here. I don't have a problemthem celebrating their "holiday", but when Canada Day rolls around what do you think happens?
Along with the Red n' White Maple Leaf flags we hear the taunting of the separatist, we have vandalism and threats.
Next year, I'll be sure to hang a Union Jack AND a US Flag in my windows.
Right. I see lotsa posts & comments from people who don't actually live here in Quebec and let me first say that as an Anglophone living here it's difficult at times.
I moved here in 1990 with the intention of learning the language. You know, our of respect and such.
What I noticed however was anytime I even so much as attempted to speak "their language", I was hit with snide and rude comments and remarks.
I figured this was just a few bad apples, but as time went on I soon realized this is actually how they are. Arrogant, rude and mean. but why then are they enforcing everyone here to speak their language?
My overall thoughts and opinions ended up just accepting that "the french are just shitheads".
Years later, and still living here of course, dating a french girl (she's bilingual) and working a very nice job, I've realized certain things:
The French here are actually scared shitless that their "culture" may end up wiped out. So granted, they'll do what they feel is necessary to preserve it. However when their moronic laws impose on the rights of others (as someone else here pointed out), how the hell could it NOT anger Anglos living here?
The Language Police? This has got to be the most pathetic form of Culteral Preservation I have ever witnessed. Not only do these whining little parasites walk around checking merchant signs and advertisement font sizes for "acceptable format", but now they've begun HARRASSING business owners who, have been in business in Quebec for averages of 30 years and up for not speaking French "good enough". 30 years man!
You know what i think this boils down to? the fact that a Quebec Business owners have a reputation for failing miserably at their own businesses, and it pisses them off completely to see a family of Greeks or Italians (for exmaple) running a successful businss.
Not all Quebecers however are as bad as they say. Some actually had the kahunas to stay in school, get that education and learn how to think rationally. Which i think is a major problem here with the MINORTY of Francophones who actually have that pipe dream of becoming a separate country.
I wouldn't say I 'hate" Quebec, but I firmly believe that if Quebec separatists were to explore outside the thickness of their own heads for even a day, things would change drastically.
Yesterday was St Jean Baptist day here. I don't have a problemthem celebrating their "holiday", but when Canada Day rolls around what do you think happens?
Along with the Red n' White Maple Leaf flags we hear the taunting of the separatist, we have vandalism and threats.
Next year, I'll be sure to hang a Union Jack AND a US Flag in my windows.
Re: Quebec %^$@&$
That is pure bullshit. Parizeau was said to have been "drunk" when he made that speech, you know it., I know it, everyone who watched that night knows it.
Or, perhaps he just "slipped up" and made an expression that really meant something else - perhaps everything he said prior to that night was meant to be taken n another way? mmm?
Hogwash. He left VERY QUCIKLY after that little stint and, was replaced with Bouchard who, I actually admire to a slight degree only for his tact and professionalism.
Still, he's a politician and, human so yea, he screwed up royally. Just accept it and stop trying to justify or put a spin on his "message".
Cathou said:
That is pure bullshit. Parizeau was said to have been "drunk" when he made that speech, you know it., I know it, everyone who watched that night knows it.
Or, perhaps he just "slipped up" and made an expression that really meant something else - perhaps everything he said prior to that night was meant to be taken n another way? mmm?
Hogwash. He left VERY QUCIKLY after that little stint and, was replaced with Bouchard who, I actually admire to a slight degree only for his tact and professionalism.
Still, he's a politician and, human so yea, he screwed up royally. Just accept it and stop trying to justify or put a spin on his "message".
RE: Quebec %^$@&$
You're right. Absolutely. and, let me retract my last statement of hanging flags.
To clarify, I DO love it here. I'd have moved a long time ago if I hated it as much as some do, but I think politically, this place is a major disaster.
Understand though, I have experienced alot of 'hatred' myself from the Francophone side of things so I guess I've developed a bit of a "grudge" myself.
Hope my post didn't offend you.
You're right. Absolutely. and, let me retract my last statement of hanging flags.
To clarify, I DO love it here. I'd have moved a long time ago if I hated it as much as some do, but I think politically, this place is a major disaster.
Understand though, I have experienced alot of 'hatred' myself from the Francophone side of things so I guess I've developed a bit of a "grudge" myself.
Hope my post didn't offend you.
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
no, you didnt offend me. it just remaind me of a customer that i had this week. an old english women. our buisness have maybe a ratio of 80% francophone - 20% anglophone in our clients. So when i made the first contact with a customer, i usually do it in french. if they respond in english, i simply switch to english myself, and everyone is happy. So that old women enter and i said : Bonjour, vous allez bien ? and with the most hatefull voice she probably could produce she reply : Speak to me in english ! and she's not alone, i've seen scene like that one over and over and over.
I must insist that i've seen also francophone being disrespectfull too, but that neither community is really a victime, they sometimes both seek that kind of thing...
Ripper said:
no, you didnt offend me. it just remaind me of a customer that i had this week. an old english women. our buisness have maybe a ratio of 80% francophone - 20% anglophone in our clients. So when i made the first contact with a customer, i usually do it in french. if they respond in english, i simply switch to english myself, and everyone is happy. So that old women enter and i said : Bonjour, vous allez bien ? and with the most hatefull voice she probably could produce she reply : Speak to me in english ! and she's not alone, i've seen scene like that one over and over and over.
I must insist that i've seen also francophone being disrespectfull too, but that neither community is really a victime, they sometimes both seek that kind of thing...
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
no, you didnt offend me. it just remaind me of a customer that i had this week. an old english women. our buisness have maybe a ratio of 80% francophone - 20% anglophone in our clients. So when i made the first contact with a customer, i usually do it in french. if they respond in english, i simply switch to english myself, and everyone is happy. So that old women enter and i said : Bonjour, vous allez bien ? and with the most hatefull voice she probably could produce she reply : Speak to me in english ! and she's not alone, i've seen scene like that one over and over and over.
I must insist that i've seen also francophone being disrespectfull too, but that neither community is really a victime, they sometimes both seek that kind of thing...
Ripper said:
no, you didnt offend me. it just remaind me of a customer that i had this week. an old english women. our buisness have maybe a ratio of 80% francophone - 20% anglophone in our clients. So when i made the first contact with a customer, i usually do it in french. if they respond in english, i simply switch to english myself, and everyone is happy. So that old women enter and i said : Bonjour, vous allez bien ? and with the most hatefull voice she probably could produce she reply : Speak to me in english ! and she's not alone, i've seen scene like that one over and over and over.
I must insist that i've seen also francophone being disrespectfull too, but that neither community is really a victime, they sometimes both seek that kind of thing...
RE: Quebec %^$@&$
Indeed it goes both ways. I'm living in the downtown area of Montreal, just in the edge of the plateau so the majority in this area is Francophone. I make my efforts, though there are surprisingly many people who will happily speak English.
I think that if an effort is made, people on both sides could easily avoid conflict. What you experienced with that particular Anglo was rude and shameful. However, ask yourself "why" her attitude is so negative.
Out of curiosity, was she a tourist ?
Your attitude here is actually a prime example of how arguments CAN be avoided - you've not chosen t debate or argue, instead, you've chosen to discuss.
Now, if our politicians cold do the same thing. ;0
Indeed it goes both ways. I'm living in the downtown area of Montreal, just in the edge of the plateau so the majority in this area is Francophone. I make my efforts, though there are surprisingly many people who will happily speak English.
I think that if an effort is made, people on both sides could easily avoid conflict. What you experienced with that particular Anglo was rude and shameful. However, ask yourself "why" her attitude is so negative.
Out of curiosity, was she a tourist ?
Your attitude here is actually a prime example of how arguments CAN be avoided - you've not chosen t debate or argue, instead, you've chosen to discuss.
Now, if our politicians cold do the same thing. ;0
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
Did it ever occur to anyone that this elderly lady could not speak French? Did it occur to anyone that she was Educated in Montreal in English? How in the world is she supposed to learn French if she went to an English school? Through Osmosis???
Ripper said:
Did it ever occur to anyone that this elderly lady could not speak French? Did it occur to anyone that she was Educated in Montreal in English? How in the world is she supposed to learn French if she went to an English school? Through Osmosis???
Re: Quebec %^$@&$
Let me check just a second....
One of the biggest Aluminium and Paper producers in the world. We are also the Biggest Hydro Electricity producers in the world. one of the chepest and most enviormentaly friendly power sources. Of wich we export a good amount to the States for 10x the price it costs us to produce.
We have a growing technology sector. The brains and creativity of North America is here. Thousands of corporation come here, to tap our intellectual market. Thousands of ideas thought up here, are refined and sold to American corporations.
We have, after all, 1/5-1/4th of Canadas total GDP.
SECONDGEN said:
Let me check just a second....
One of the biggest Aluminium and Paper producers in the world. We are also the Biggest Hydro Electricity producers in the world. one of the chepest and most enviormentaly friendly power sources. Of wich we export a good amount to the States for 10x the price it costs us to produce.
We have a growing technology sector. The brains and creativity of North America is here. Thousands of corporation come here, to tap our intellectual market. Thousands of ideas thought up here, are refined and sold to American corporations.
We have, after all, 1/5-1/4th of Canadas total GDP.
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
Only 500 Thousand people in all of Québec Speak english. Montreal has 1.8 Million inhabitants. The greater region of Montreal has nearly 3 million people. Now, even if all the anglophones of this porvince lived in Montreal, you still wouldnt be 50% of the total pop.
Nascar_James said:
Only 500 Thousand people in all of Québec Speak english. Montreal has 1.8 Million inhabitants. The greater region of Montreal has nearly 3 million people. Now, even if all the anglophones of this porvince lived in Montreal, you still wouldnt be 50% of the total pop.
Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$
the point is not that she cant talk french. but a simple : "i'm sorry i dont speak french" would have been perfect. you probably have miss the hatefull voice in my post ? it's the arrogance, in her voice. she dont like the fact that i have speak to her in french first. but it's not written in her face that she was english...
Nascar_James said:
the point is not that she cant talk french. but a simple : "i'm sorry i dont speak french" would have been perfect. you probably have miss the hatefull voice in my post ? it's the arrogance, in her voice. she dont like the fact that i have speak to her in french first. but it's not written in her face that she was english...