Quebec Sucks

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Indeed it goes both ways. I'm living in the downtown area of Montreal, just in the edge of the plateau so the majority in this area is Francophone. I make my efforts, though there are surprisingly many people who will happily speak English.

I think that if an effort is made, people on both sides could easily avoid conflict. What you experienced with that particular Anglo was rude and shameful. However, ask yourself "why" her attitude is so negative.

Out of curiosity, was she a tourist ?

Your attitude here is actually a prime example of how arguments CAN be avoided - you've not chosen t debate or argue, instead, you've chosen to discuss.

Now, if our politicians cold do the same thing. ;0

Did it ever occur to anyone that this elderly lady could not speak French? Did it occur to anyone that she was Educated in Montreal in English? How in the world is she supposed to learn French if she went to an English school? Through Osmosis???

The issue is not about not being able to speak french... It's OK to speak only English but it's wrong to despise people because they adress you in French... especially in Montreal!!! She could have asked politely to be spoken to in English. The word "please" never killed anyone...

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Don't know about Italians, but while I was living in Montreal I did know some folks who are Greek-Canadian (their parents were born in Greece, they were born in Montreal). I recall they spoke Greek amungst themselves, however they were educated in English in Montreal and their French was very limited (almost no knowledge).

So even though they spoke Greek amungst themselves, they are really English speakers when communicating with the general public. So your statistics here are not applicable nor accurate.

I am sure this analogy applies to other English speaking immigrants as well (i.e East Indians, Filipinos, Israelis ...etc). These are all immigrants in Montreal who have a language other than English as their mother tongue, but use English in their day to day lives.

Today all immigrants are schooled in French only.

It shows how much you know. Where in the world do you get your information from? Lots of immigrants attend English only private schools. Some of those in the West Island send their kids to English schools in Hawsksbury Ontario, just across the Quebec border. A year later, those educated in Hawksebury obtain their eleigibility certificate.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

It shows how much you know. Where in the world do you get your information from? Lots of immigrants attend English only private schools. Some of those in the West Island send their kids to English schools in Hawsksbury Ontario, just across the Quebec border. A year later, those educated in Hawksebury obtain their eleigibility certificate.

While some do send their kids to private english school, I doubt the numbers are very high, may be higher if you include religious schools.

As for the Hawksebury students, how do parents mangage to send their kids to school in another province, is it a private school? Or, are they using an Hawksebury area address instead of their own to make this possible?

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Don't know about Italians, but while I was living in Montreal I did know some folks who are Greek-Canadian (their parents were born in Greece, they were born in Montreal). I recall they spoke Greek amungst themselves, however they were educated in English in Montreal and their French was very limited (almost no knowledge).

So even though they spoke Greek amungst themselves, they are really English speakers when communicating with the general public. So your statistics here are not applicable nor accurate.

I am sure this analogy applies to other English speaking immigrants as well (i.e East Indians, Filipinos, Israelis ...etc). These are all immigrants in Montreal who have a language other than English as their mother tongue, but use English in their day to day lives.

Today all immigrants are schooled in French only.

It shows how much you know. Where in the world do you get your information from? Lots of immigrants attend English only private schools. Some of those in the West Island send their kids to English schools in Hawsksbury Ontario, just across the Quebec border. A year later, those educated in Hawksebury obtain their eleigibility certificate.

Not as much as you would think. They are few. And should assume the consequences of their actions. If they wish not to learn french, then let them move to another province when they cannot find work here.

 

[Nascar_James]

As an ex-Montrealer now living in Oklahoma, I do not miss the constant language debates and continous language tensions while I was living in Montreal. I would always force the issue and address anyone I was dealing with in English ... no exceptions. It is the language I was educated in while growing up in Montreal and the language I have always used. Having lived in Montreal for over 3 decades, I have learnt that most of the French speaking folks living there do somehow muster up the ability to speak English if they have no alternative.

In my opinion, any English speaker living in Montreal would be pretty foolish not to learn a minimum of French. It's your right to speak the language you want but I think it's a shame that someone living in a bilingual city like Montreal would be stubborn enough to insist on never speaking a single french word.

Well, it is the language that generations of folks living in Montreal grew up learning and using day to day. Why change things now? I do not cave in to the Seperatists. I am a conservative minded individual who beleives in traditional values. The main reason I moved down to Oklahma is not language, I could have easily stayed in Montreal with no knowledge of French. I was my birth city and thus my right to stay there. I like Oklahoma cause it is a very conservative state. They do beleive in traditional values here. Most of the folks here attened church on a weekly basis.

Its people like you that we are happy to get ride of.

Really? What in blue blazes do you mean by "get ride of"? What kind of a ride are you referring to??? Seems to me you haven't even the IQ of a 5 year old, living in North America and not being proficient in the language of business in your own continent. You probably even failed the entranace examinations to kindergarten!

Do you realize what a joke Quebec has become?

I have told the folks down here about the language police and they have expressed concern (as well as disbelief) that we have "language segregation" in Quebec. It also shows how hypocritical both the liberal and PQ gov'ts are in Quebec. They claim to be left-wing parties, however there is nothing liberal in violating the civil rights of the English speaking citizen living in Montreal.

 

[Numure]

Really? What in blue blazes do you mean by "get ride of"? What kind of a ride are you referring to??? Seems to me you haven't even the IQ of a 5 year old, living in North America and not being proficient in the language of business in your own continent. You probably even failed the entranace examinations to kindergarten!

Do you realize what a joke Quebec has become?

I have told the folks down here about the language police and they have expressed concern (as well as disbelief) that we have "language segregation" in Quebec. It also shows how hypocritical both the liberal and PQ gov'ts are in Quebec. They claim to be left-wing parties, however there is nothing liberal in violating the civil rights of the English speaking citizen living in Montreal.

Well, to my knowledge, english is my second language. Thus, informing you of this, fench is my first. I am almost fluent in both. That certainly shows a higher IQ, then you.

You have it all wrong. We are protecting the rights of the majority. The right to live our lives on our land, without using english. To be able to conduct all our daily business, including work, without being obligated to learn a second language. Does that mean we discourage the learning of a second language? No. I am actually a proud supporter of bilingualism within both my community and poarty of affiliation. But I am also a proud supporter of continued enforcement of the French Charter. It protects the rights of the Majority of the citizens of this province, from Anglophone arrogance that lead to the creation of bill 101 in the first place.

Your community abused the system for years, signing only in english. Hiring anglophones only, and refusing to serve in french. My grand mother tells me how it was back then. Most of the restaurants, shops, an<y commercial establishement in Montreal literally refused service to francophones. She was frustrated that she coouldnt live her life, on the land of her ancesters, in her own language.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-101-603/conflict_war/october_crisis/clip4

This women puts it well. Though it is old, you get the gimps of it.

 

[s_lone]

Do you realize what a joke Quebec has become?

Oh please! Every single place in the world have issues of their own and Quebec is not more of a joke than any other country.

You know, It would be awfully easy for me to say that the US is a joke, especially with the mainstream culture that it's been exporting everywhere in the last 25 years or so.... Dumb movies, bad music. Economy-rules-over-ecology attitude... "Axis of evil" and all that shit...

But I don't call the US a joke for the simple reason that the US are too complex and diversified to be called a joke. I know that the US are filled with beautiful and intelligent people despite the sad image that it is exporting across the world.

Quebec, as well as the rest of Canada, is a very good and decent place to live in and you know it. Quebec is no joke at all.

 

[hmsmark]

RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

Whoa! 8O ... Somebody's got a sad image of himself... Only a total loser can say things like that. How old are you and where do you come from?!! Didi your mommy ever hug you?

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

Those comments are uncalled for. Not to mention silly. Actually does not even dignify a reply.

But:

As much as I get frustrated with the seperatist movement, it is their right in a free country, If Quebec decides to stay in Canada after next seperation vote we have to open up a better dialogue and somehow try to work out our diferences and saying insulting silly things does not help.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

You are one immature, uneducated, ignorant person.

You are full of misunderstanding and an almost complete lack of knowledge about:Quebec; France; AIDS; the US; Guantanamo; personal hygiene....

Anyway, I wish you a happy life. You are obviously happy living in your cave, somewhere in nowhereville. You have the perception of a particle of sand. As a famous person once said: I fart in your general direction.

 

[Ripper]

RE: Quebec %^$@&$

lol. " I fart in your general direction"

Monty Python. Who could forget.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

So for those who care...this is a case in point...the person who wrote this should not be charged with a hate crime. While I don't agree with this post, and it directly affects me, i still defend freedom of speech, rather than charging the village idiot with hate crimes. I actually can't believe people in Canada don't understand simple rights anymore.

 

[Nascar_James]

Really? What in blue blazes do you mean by "get ride of"? What kind of a ride are you referring to??? Seems to me you haven't even the IQ of a 5 year old, living in North America and not being proficient in the language of business in your own continent. You probably even failed the entranace examinations to kindergarten!

Do you realize what a joke Quebec has become?

I have told the folks down here about the language police and they have expressed concern (as well as disbelief) that we have "language segregation" in Quebec. It also shows how hypocritical both the liberal and PQ gov'ts are in Quebec. They claim to be left-wing parties, however there is nothing liberal in violating the civil rights of the English speaking citizen living in Montreal.

Well, to my knowledge, english is my second language. Thus, informing you of this, fench is my first. I am almost fluent in both. That certainly shows a higher IQ, then you.

You have it all wrong. We are protecting the rights of the majority. The right to live our lives on our land, without using english. To be able to conduct all our daily business, including work, without being obligated to learn a second language. Does that mean we discourage the learning of a second language? No. I am actually a proud supporter of bilingualism within both my community and poarty of affiliation. But I am also a proud supporter of continued enforcement of the French Charter. It protects the rights of the Majority of the citizens of this province, from Anglophone arrogance that lead to the creation of bill 101 in the first place.

Your community abused the system for years, signing only in english. Hiring anglophones only, and refusing to serve in french. My grand mother tells me how it was back then. Most of the restaurants, shops, an<y commercial establishement in Montreal literally refused service to francophones. She was frustrated that she coouldnt live her life, on the land of her ancesters, in her own language.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-101-603/conflict_war/october_crisis/clip4

This women puts it well. Though it is old, you get the gimps of it.

Ahemmmmm ... first of all, judging by context of your reply, you are far from being fluent in English.

Secondly, in regards to your IQ comment, as a successful business person I know what I am capable of, what have you ever accomplished?

Thirdly, your comment "The right to live our lives on our land, without using english" gives you a false sense of security. I have lived a good chunk of my life in Montreal (city of birth) and have "never" used French. All of the French speakers that I have encountered (thru businesses, and gov'ts ...etc) had to address me in English, no exception. I've always forced the issue, perhaps there might have been an intimidation factor on my part, but it was unintentional. So there is no way that anyone in Montreal (particularly the West Island) can live their day to day lives with no knowledge of English. It cannot be done. It is however possible to live your day to day life with a knowledge of only English, since all of the French speakers I've come across in Montreal were able to address me in English. Bottom line is ---you cannot win---

In regards to your comment ...

"But I am also a proud supporter of continued enforcement of the French Charter"

You do realize the United Nations ruled against the sign provision of the Charter back in the 1980's. It made international headlines.
The Fifth Estate also had a segment about the Language Police in Quebec.

In regards to your last comment ...

"Your community abused the system for years, signing only in english. Hiring anglophones only, and refusing to serve in french."

Did it ever occur to you that lots of English speakers cannot speak French? How in the world is someone educated in English supposed to speak French? I have re-iterated this point several times.

 

[bulldog]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

Quebec does indeed suck. But, it's not their fault. After all, the are decendants of the French, who are the filthiest pieces of AIDS infested crap ever created. I think we should kick them out of Canada, and then have the Americans invade and conquer them. Stick the whole lot of them in cages in Guantanamo. Hell, they don't like to shower anyways, so let them mess themselves. Screw Quebec and Screw France!! I HATE them.

My mother is 1/2 French and speaks not a word of French. Nor do I. My brother learned it in order to be a border patrol. What incentive would you give to the US to invade Quebec? A terrorist in a pear tree? Really - what is in it for the US?

Bull Dog

 

[Bluerocks]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

As much as I get frustrated with the seperatist movement, it is their right in a free country, If Quebec decides to stay in Canada after next seperation vote we have to open up a better dialogue and somehow try to work out our diferences and saying insulting silly things does not help.

We should try to open up dialogue right now instead of waiting til the next referendum. But it seems that the Bloc wants no part of it.

Unfortunately, the PQ will call for referendums until they get it right, and so it seems. I say that it is based on a pride issue more than anything else. Separatist feels that Canada is the oppressor, and in this case, it could not be further from the truth. :roll:

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

As much as I get frustrated with the seperatist movement, it is their right in a free country, If Quebec decides to stay in Canada after next seperation vote we have to open up a better dialogue and somehow try to work out our diferences and saying insulting silly things does not help.

We should try to open up dialogue right now instead of waiting til the next referendum. But it seems that the Bloc wants no part of it.

Unfortunately, the PQ will call for referendums until they get it right, and so it seems. I say that it is based on a pride issue more than anything else. Separatist feels that Canada is the oppressor, and in this case, it could not be further from the truth. :roll:

I'm all for a dialogue between Quebec and the ROC. Bring it on!.. But my gut feeling is that Quebecers will really be happy when they gain the political autonomy they desire. If Canadians are willing to reconsider the nature of Canada, I am convinced that we could all be a shining example of how political conflicts can be solved with success.

In my opinion, Canada should redefine itself completely. It should not be a country but a union. To me, the traditional notion of a country applies a lot more to Quebec than Canada. But that doesn't mean Canada means nothing to me, quite the contrary. In a way, I expect Canada to be more modern than Quebec in it's political identity.

I've said this many times but what I want is true decentralization of power. Take gay marriage for example. If Alberta wants to forbid it than so be it. I think a true confederation must leave this to the provinces. Here in Quebec, the issue is solved and many just don't understand why so much time is wasted on debating the same subject twice. Why should the provinces need to wait for money coming from Ottawa to invest in health care? Isn't health care a provincial issue?

I think many Quebecers feel that Canada's problem is that there is a lot of energy wasted because the lines between federal and provincial responsibilties are much too blurred. Lots of money and energy wasted in sending money to Ottawa so it can eventually (hopefully) come back...

 

[Bluerocks]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

I think many Quebecers feel that Canada's problem is that there is a lot of energy wasted because the lines between federal and provincial responsibilties are much too blurred. Lots of money and energy wasted in sending money to Ottawa so it can eventually (hopefully) come back...

Of course, there are disputes between Canada and the other provinces as well. Take the ``déséquilibre fiscal`` for example. The other provinces have the same issue with the Federal government, yet you do not see them whine so much about about it. At least not to the point of separation.

I strongly consider that Quebec is, and will be, stronger as a part of Canada then as a sovereign nation.

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

I think many Quebecers feel that Canada's problem is that there is a lot of energy wasted because the lines between federal and provincial responsibilties are much too blurred. Lots of money and energy wasted in sending money to Ottawa so it can eventually (hopefully) come back...

Of course, there are disputes between Canada and the other provinces as well. Take the ``déséquilibre fiscal`` for example. The other provinces have the same issue with the Federal government, yet you do not see them whine so much about about it. At least not to the point of separation.

That's exactly what the problem is. The fact that other provinces are not whining so much about it is not a reason to tolerate the behaviour of the federal government. Maybe if the other provinces did put on an attitude, Quebecers wouldn't feel as if they are the only ones trying to change things and thus, feel a sort of inclusion within Canada. Wouldn't it be time for the provinces to get together and corner the federal government and impose their needs? Quebec is just not satisfied with Canada's present situation and it's in it's full right to "whine".

Just imagine for a second if their was a truly significant seperatist movement in Alberta, I would all that is needed for Canada to react as a whole and push for a change of provincial-federal policies. With Quebec ready to leave on one side and Alberta ready to leave on the other, Ottawa would finally have to give in and listen to the provinces.

 

[Reivilo]

Re: RE: Quebec %^$@&$

..