Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

[Said1]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

[

I was more responding to DasFX original question of why Quebec sovereigntists feel that Quebec should be recognized as a nation.

Ok. Good s'plaination though.

As to if Quebec should be a nation and represent themselves, I don't feel that I am able to weigh in too strongly on that debate. I can understand why they want to. On the other hand I feel that part of what makes Canada a great country to live in is the contributions that Quebec has made, and that Canada would be poorer for loosing Quebec. So, I don't want to see them leave, but I also feel that I don't have a right to weigh in on that decision other than to hopefully reassure Quebecquers that they are indeed wanted and needed as part of Canada.

To their credit, Quebec has produced some top notch politicians.
On the other hand, I think they are fairly represented on an international level, more so than perhaps other provinces. I guess, in a way I'm trying to undertand what more they possibly could want (aside from independence of course)? Negotiations often require that something be given up in order to gain what is desired, which in Quebec's case leaves me scratching my head more often than not.

but I don't think the PQ is running a campaign of truth. The are skewing things in their favour which is what I don't like.

This is what worries me the most, that Quebec may be receiving a message that Canadians in general are resentful or want Quebec to separate, and I don't think that is the case. I would like to see much more transparancy in the PQ, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.[/quote]

I think transparancy is a huge problem. It takes a lot of research and time to figure out what will or might happen if they do infact win a yes vote. It's not so cut and dry as they would like their supporters to believe. And with that I mean that the privileges (concessions) given to them as a province my not be a reality if they are on their own.

 

[TheEggman]

Aside from independance, what Quebec would accept is an equal-equal status with the rest of Canada. As you might probably guess, the rest of Canada being a majority would never accept such a thing. So there is the problem.

 

[poligeek]

Aside from independance, what Quebec would accept is an equal-equal status with the rest of Canada. As you might probably guess, the rest of Canada being a majority would never accept such a thing. So there is the problem.

Maybe I'm playing at semantics here, but "equal-equal status with the rest of Canada" to me sounds like the exact same thing as Quebec seperation, because to be "equal" to a nation, you must be recognized as a nation.

I do agree Said1 that Quebec is fairly well represented in the international forum, and perhaps more so than many other provinces. However, I think the question comes down to if the sovereingts want independance for the sake of independence (which I can't argue with) then there may be nothing we can give hardliners.

That leaves convincing the rest of Quebec that Canada values them, and that both Canada as a whole and Quebec as part of Canada are stronger together than apart. Which is also tough to argue with.

Really it comes down to a decision between an emotional need for self-identity, and a pragmatic need for larger political and economic clout in the international forum.

 

[TheEggman]

Maybe I'm playing at semantics here, but "equal-equal status with the rest of Canada" to me sounds like the exact same thing as Quebec seperation, because to be "equal" to a nation, you must be recognized as a nation.

I do agree Said1 that Quebec is fairly well represented in the international forum, and perhaps more so than many other provinces. However, I think the question comes down to if the sovereingts want independance for the sake of independence (which I can't argue with) then there may be nothing we can give hardliners.

That leaves convincing the rest of Quebec that Canada values them, and that both Canada as a whole and Quebec as part of Canada are stronger together than apart. Which is also tough to argue with.

Really it comes down to a decision between an emotional need for self-identity, and a pragmatic need for larger political and economic clout in the international forum.

Well an equal-equal status is not the same at all in the sense that Quebec would still part of Canada but would control more or less 50% of the country while an independant Quebec would be on its own. That was the global proposition of the last two referendums in Quebec. Of course, I highly doubt that the rest of Canada would have accepted that proposition, which would probably have led Quebec to independance in 95. It might be possible though to negotiate some common institutions with two independant countries.

Quebec independance is not only about emotive principles or be well represented in international forums. It's about having the control of its destiny. If Canada decides tomorrow to abolish bilingualism, what power will Quebec have if it's still a minority ? Quebec has had many problems with Bill 101 because of the Supreme Court based on the Canadian constitution not signed by Quebec. And the language subject is only one example among others. What power do Quebeckers have right now in the federal government ? Not much I'm afraid. Of course, there are federalist Quebeckers in the federal government but they're mostly working against Quebec national interests. The Liberals have understood that the best way to get elected is by lulling Quebeckers into sleep by having Quebec politicians, who at the same time, are ready to get Quebec into line when speaking to english Canada. This has worked well for some politicians so far but it will not work forever.

 

[Devine Miss M]

do you realize that for every vote the Bloc gets the party receives 1.75 mmm...so for a party that doesn't represent the entire country the entire country is paying for them to be active.

another interesting question...how can the Bloc be a National Party when we as a nation can't vote for them...interesting.

 

[justfred]

It is called the equality of being a Frog. They get special privileges by being Frogs as they are able to whine and ribbit their way to get what they want. Having so many seats in the house from Quebec they have a lot influence and clout. Can you imagine a Liberal Prime Minister that would not keep his province happy by doing what they ask?

 

[TheEggman]

do you realize that for every vote the Bloc gets the party receives 1.75 mmm...so for a party that doesn't represent the entire country the entire country is paying for them to be active.

another interesting question...how can the Bloc be a National Party when we as a nation can't vote for them...interesting.

That's what we call democracy. You see, opinions like this represent very well the situation of politics in Canada. I mean, what's your point by saying such a thing ? You think Quebecers should not have the right to vote for who they want ? That's a very colonial mind and it's very well representative of a certain mind in English Canada. If the Bloc exists, there's a reason to it. Something's not working well in this country.

And I'm not sure what you mean exactly by the Bloc being a national Party. It's a national party if you're talking about Quebec as a nation. Otherwise, it's not a national party in Canada obviously.

 

[TheEggman]

It is called the equality of being a Frog. They get special privileges by being Frogs as they are able to whine and ribbit their way to get what they want. Having so many seats in the house from Quebec they have a lot influence and clout. Can you imagine a Liberal Prime Minister that would not keep his province happy by doing what they ask?

Read a book and try to educate yourself a little bit.

Clowns like yourself will probably go to Montreal at the next referendum to whine about how much you like Quebec and how much you want it to stay in Canada. Pathetic.

Can you imagine a Liberal Prime Minister that would not keep his province happy by doing what they ask?

Actually, I can't imagine a Liberal Prime Minister repatriating the constitution without the agreement of all provinces. Really, I can't.

 

[TenPenny]

It is called the equality of being a Frog. They get special privileges by being Frogs as they are able to whine and ribbit their way to get what they want. Having so many seats in the house from Quebec they have a lot influence and clout. Can you imagine a Liberal Prime Minister that would not keep his province happy by doing what they ask?

You are an ignorant turd. I find your use of the word "frog" grossly offensive, and I'm an english-speaking Canadian. I get really tired of you ignorant dickwads using language like this. Why don't you just admit that you're simply an insecure twerp with a miniscule penis and a smaller brain, who wishes he could have a civil service job doing something mindless, but isn't qualified, and therefore blames someone else?

Why don't you put a garbage bag on your head and do some anaerboic exercises for a while.

 

[Jay]

I don't mind the term Frog...some frogs are cute and kids play with them in ponds....some are cute but deadly and you shouldn't touch them.

It's better than Limey....

 

[TheEggman]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I don't mind the term Frog...some frogs are cute and kids play with them in ponds....some are cute but deadly and you shouldn't touch them.

It's better than Limey....

I don't mind the term Frog either, it's the stupid comments that come with it I don't like. Just shows a lack of arguments anyway.

 

[TenPenny]

I thought the days of using assinine insults were long gone except on Formula 1 coverage.

Can I use "nigger" and "chink"? How about "wop"? Is "darkie" okay?

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I thought the days of using assinine insults were long gone except on Formula 1 coverage.

Can I use "nigger" and "chink"? How about "wop"? Is "darkie" okay?

They are just words, just sounds coming from your mouth. Why are your giving this guy what he wants, a reaction?

As for if your could use those words you listed above...sure. If you are able to produce the sounds that correspond to the letters, than you can use those words.

I mean you might get your assed kicked, but that's an entirely different story. If you ask me, the words are pretty funny. I remember this guy once called me a Paki and I just laughed. Such an amusing thing to call me especially since I have no ties to Pakistan. He would have been smarter to call me an Indi or something like that.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I don't mind the term Frog...some frogs are cute and kids play with them in ponds....some are cute but deadly and you shouldn't touch them.

It's better than Limey....

I don't mind the term Frog either, it's the stupid comments that come with it I don't like. Just shows a lack of arguments anyway.

It's the English...they seem to forget that French Norman blood (like mine) is bluer than theirs....

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I thought the days of using assinine insults were long gone except on Formula 1 coverage.

Can I use "nigger" and "chink"? How about "wop"? Is "darkie" okay?

They are just words, just sounds coming from your mouth. Why are your giving this guy what he wants, a reaction?

As for if your could use those words you listed above...sure. If you are able to produce the sounds that correspond to the letters, than you can use those words.

I mean you might get your assed kicked, but that's an entirely different story. If you ask me, the words are pretty funny. I remember this guy once called me a Paki and I just laughed. Such an amusing thing to call me especially since I have no ties to Pakistan. He would have been smarter to call me an Indi or something like that.

Why am I giving this guy what he wants? It's not him. It seems that "frog" is acceptable to several people here. Personally, I don't agree.

And my reference to whether or not I "could" use those terms was not, in fact, a question of whether I could vocalize the sounds. It was a question of whether or not they were acceptable to use on this website, whether or not they would be censored. Since you're being so specific, note that I didn't write about whether or not I could "say" those words; I know I am capable of speaking them. I wanted to know if I could USE them. Someone as detail oriented as you obviously are should have picked up that.

 

[manda]

I haven't read this whole thread for lack of time, but IMHO, Quebec is a nation means nothing. It just plain isn't, and these self important pompous blowhards try to make more of their PROVINCE, than it is. We are all part of the Nation of Canada, and are a Canadian people, no matter what ethniticity we are or language we speak. What Bull

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I haven't read this whole thread for lack of time, but IMHO, Quebec is a nation means nothing. It just plain isn't, and these self important pompous blowhards try to make more of their PROVINCE, than it is. We are all part of the Nation of Canada, and are a Canadian people, no matter what ethniticity we are or language we speak. What Bull

*croak* So you don't think Acadians and 'First Nations' are nations?
*wrebbit*

I couldn't care less if an Albertan fellow said to me he believes Alberta forms a nation. Good for him if he truly believes it.

Good for you if you feel Canadian. I do too. But I feel a whole lot more like a Quebecer. *wrebbit*

 

[the caracal kid]

agreed, s_lone,

canada is many nations under one flag. we need to treat her as such.

 

[cyberclark]

Alberta is closer to seperation than is Quebec and Alberta would give Quebec full support. For a good many years Albert has worked with PQ behind the scenes on who is going to carry the issue to the Parliment and who is going to follow with support.

This applies in developing laws like the Dangerous Goods act where involved I had more dealings with PQ than with the local Alberta characters!

I can see the Colluci decision in PQ health care as being a product of no meaningful defense by PQ in order to open the two tier health system, hand in hand with Alberta.

LaBelle Province sets the standards on so many things in Canada it may surplant the local parliment as far as effective changes are concerned.

I have a lot of respect for PQ and I see us under Harper's guise as becoming a Republic rather than a nation.

Things do look so dreary from my view!

Of interest to you who are for or against what I pen:
I am a conservative by nature and political choice.
I campained for Stan Shellenberg over years and Willie Littlechild Federally. Provincially I campained for Tom Thurber, MLA Drayton Vallley and paid for conservative memberships for people I didn't know in order to defeat Nancy Bethowksy in her run against Klein who was pretty tame at that time.
I own hand guns- several of them and enjoy the shoot.

I came to see Ralph's very extreme, poorly planned rip offs as being a detriment to our province. Later, in Conservative company I seen that Mr. Harper was learning fast off Mr. Kleins "success".

Then, I became involved with the Fraser Institute. My eyes were opened.
Harper scares hell out of me!
John Clark

 

[unclepercy]

Can someone please explain to me what is meant by a "frog?" If I said a frog got in the house, I chased it around with a towel, and caught it, put it outside - what would be meant by that? Nothing more than what I said. I don't get it.

I, on the other hand, would like to give you some firsthand - real experience - hotdog - info on the word "nigger." When I was very young, it meant nothing more than "sandwich." It was an identifying noun.

But, in the sixties, black people decided it was offensive when spoken by whites, so we are trying to oblige them by not saying it. However, they persist in calling themselves that very word. We whites do not understand why such a big deal was made over that word in the first place, because it meant almost nothing to us. But, again, we are trying to work on our manners to please the blacks.

BTW, we think aborigines are from Australia.

Percy