Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

Could be. The PQ has not been too clear on what the tangiable benefits to Quebequers would be. There are plenty of economic arguments as to why Quebec should not split. Originally (and I don't know if this is still the case), Quebec wanted to keep the Canadian currency if it split. This of course got the backs up of many Canadian Federalists, on the other hand several countries besides the US use the US currency.

I don't think there are too many economic incentives for Quebec to leave, although they may retain more of their tax, as opposed to giving into Ottawa, although I think their transfer payments are higher than most proviences, but I think they are still a "have" provience so they give more than they get in return.

The PQ have no plan, they just want their names in the history books. How can Quebecers vote for something without knowing any specifics of it. If nothing is really going to change, is it worth it?

 

[Jay]

Quebec separation isn't about money per say....

Also it is hard to say what will happen (if it ever does) cause that is the horrible thing about the future...you don't know what's going to happen....

 

[s_lone]

While this may not be a very rational comparison, I see Quebec and the ROC as a couple living together but not really loving each other. There's no love, no passion and no true communication going on between the 2 entities. That doesn't mean they can't get along and that they hate each other. They have great respect for each other and there are many advantages of living and sharing together.

But they must face the fact that their relationship is one of convenience and not of true passionate love.

We CAN continue living together as long as it's crystal clear what we owe to one another (it's not clear right now). Quebec simply wants more independance and that doesn't necessarily mean seperation. But if the ROC refuses to listen, Quebec will just get fed up and leave.

What does that mean?

The federal government must keep it's butt out of provincial jurisdictions and we are tired of sending money to Ottawa that should not go there in the first place.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Jay]

"The federal government must keep it's butt out of provincial jurisdictions and we are tired of sending money to Ottawa that should not go there in the first place.

Is that clear enough?"


I think it is clear, and I think it is clear to 3 year olds....how old are Martin and Layton?

 

[ONTARIO MAN]

Quebec is a distinct part of canada.Dont you think that the best solution for Quebec-Canada problem is switching from monarchy(which is hated in Quebec)to a republic system? :idea:

 

[ONTARIO MAN]

Canada was created by the French. Doesn't matter who is the head of it, Canada was created by the French.

 

[ONTARIO MAN]

Oh really?Who are aboriginals?

 

[poligeek]

I'd like to see Quebec stay a part of Canada, but just to play Devil's Advocate, I think simply moving to a Republic would not be satisfactory for Quebec sovereigntists.

I think the general feeling of sovereigntists is that the ROC is generally speaking founded by Britain while Quebec is founded by France.

Of course as the years go by these lines blur more and more with provincial and international immigration. And, the fact that neither the provience of Quebec nor the nation of Canada have any remaining formal ties to either founding nation.

That being said the sovereigntists argument is that there is a Quebec nation that is different and distinct enough from a Canadaian nation that the two nations should be speaking to each other on nation-to-nation terms rather than any form of overall body which encompasses Quebec as part of a Canadian whole. This also gives Quebec the freedom to particpate in world forums as a nation rather than be represented as part of the Canadian nation.

I don't really want it to happen, but I do see the point. The question for me is what can Canada give to the Quebec Sovereignts to entice them to stay as part of Canada, and where do we draw the line to avoid favouring Quebec interests at the expense of other provinces in the federation?

 

[jimmoyer]

I wonder what the pandora's box of seccession
will mean, once this precedent of Quebec seceding
actually happens.

I would bet it engenders more seccession movements
in other provinces.

Then you'll have some sort of confederation or
alliance of provinces.

Most historians of the American civil war theorize
that had the South remained separate, such precedent
would beget four or five new nations, not just two.

And that WWI or WWII might have caused more
of a merger or tighter alliance status, but by then
these 5 nations would have solidified their culture
of separateness.

 

[Jersay]

Canada means village Ontario man.

The aboriginal people of Canada created their seperate areas of territory, their traditional territory.

But the French were the ones to create Canada.

The Aboriginal peoples created what was there own seperate areas of control that sometimes went into America and sometimes didn't.

They were the first people of the area now known as Canada, under whatever they called their territories, it has long been forgotten.

But it was the French, who took the world Canada, which meant village and spread it towards their territory.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

...
But the French were the ones to create Canada.
...

So what are you trying to say? That Canada belongs to the French and they should be in control of the reins in Ottawa? Another question would be, if the Bloc won a majority government, what would Canada be like?

So you created Canada, so what? Chinese created gun powder...

Since you got me started, it's funny how I visited each parties websites and all of them offered both English and French versions of their pages except the Bloc which is, to my knowledge, French only. Maybe I'm stupid or I'm looking at the wrong website or I didn't look hard enough but how do you expect me to respect the language and culture of Quebec if they can't even respect mine?

Liberals http://www.liberal.ca/
Conservatives http://www.conservative.ca/
Bloc Quebecois http://www.blocquebecois.org/fr/default.asp

In any event, based on the only English document I could download from the Bloc site (which is the abstract of their electral platform), I've come to the conclusion that it would be insane for anyone outside of Quebec to vote for the Bloc because (based on their document):
1. "In a democracy, the people decide. In Québec, the Québécois must make decisions concerning their own future and on topics such as education, healthcare and family..." yet further on down they say "Demanding a raise of federal transfers for post-secondary education (college and university) and social programs of 2.75 billion $ over three years for Québec"

So you want to make your own decisions on these matters but you still want to be financially supported?

2. "Fighting against the fiscal imbalance, federal intrusions and demand a right of withdrawal with full compensation in all spheres relevant to its jurisdiction"

So you want Canada to pay for your withdrawal from this country?

3. "Insisting that Québec’s regions receive a larger part of the structured investments of the federal government"

Does Quebec really need it?

Possible answer to this:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

So to answer the original question of "what does that mean?" It means that Quebec will lose nothing and gain everything.

Does this sound fair?

 

[Jersay]

So what are you trying to say? That Canada belongs to the French and they should be in control of the reins in Ottawa? Another question would be, if the Bloc won a majority government, what would Canada be like?

So you created Canada, so what? Chinese created gun powder...

Since you got me started, it's funny how I visited each parties websites and all of them offered both English and French versions of their pages except the Bloc which is, to my knowledge, French only. Maybe I'm stupid or I'm looking at the wrong website or I didn't look hard enough but how do you expect me to respect the language and culture of Quebec if they can't even respect mine?

Liberals http://www.liberal.ca/
Conservatives http://www.conservative.ca/
Bloc Quebecois http://www.blocquebecois.org/fr/default.asp

In any event, based on the only English document I could download from the Bloc site (which is the abstract of their electral platform), I've come to the conclusion that it would be insane for anyone outside of Quebec to vote for the Bloc because (based on their document):
1. "In a democracy, the people decide. In Québec, the Québécois must make decisions concerning their own future and on topics such as education, healthcare and family..." yet further on down they say "Demanding a raise of federal transfers for post-secondary education (college and university) and social programs of 2.75 billion $ over three years for Québec"

So you want to make your own decisions on these matters but you still want to be financially supported?

2. "Fighting against the fiscal imbalance, federal intrusions and demand a right of withdrawal with full compensation in all spheres relevant to its jurisdiction"

So you want Canada to pay for your withdrawal from this country?

3. "Insisting that Québec’s regions receive a larger part of the structured investments of the federal government"

Does Quebec really need it?

Possible answer to this:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

So to answer the original question of "what does that mean?" It means that Quebec will lose nothing and gain everything.

Does this sound fair?

I am not a seperatist so don't even try to pain me out as one.

The Bloc is not going to form a majority because it runs only in Quebec.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

I am not a seperatist so don't even try to pain me out as one.

The Bloc is not going to form a majority because it runs only in Quebec.

oops. oh well... time to go home.

 

[Jersay]

That's okay man.

Just because I am French doesn't mean I am a seperatist.

Besides I like it on the West Coast, and like being in the military too much to make my own country. :lol:

 

[the caracal kid]

but jersay,

if you make your own country you get to make your own army. You could then make yourself a general, which is the fashionable title for a militaristic leader. <joking>

 

[Jersay]

That would probably be the only way I could get to be general. :lol:

I might think about it if the population accepts Asatru as their religion. Because of the unlikelyness of that, I think I will stay on the west side.

 

[TheEggman]

Quebec is a minority that wants to form a majority. Sounds pretty fair and pretty simple to me.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

Oh really?Who are aboriginals?

The aboriginals were the first inhabitants of Canada, but they certainly didn't create the political entity of Canada, the nation.

 

[DasFX]

Quebec is a minority that wants to form a majority. Sounds pretty fair and pretty simple to me.

Exactly!

 

[DasFX]

Most English Canadians want Quebec to stay for their own selfish reasons. I mean, they fear the impact it will have on their own region. Sure there is some pride of having this huge nation spanning from coast to coast to coast and about having a reputation of peace and tranquility, but beyond that, I think most people could accept Quebec leaving the current confederation.

I mean if they left, they really wouldn't be going anywhere. It isn't like they would take their land and move it away. I personally want Quebec to stay in Canada because I think they make our nation stronger. Mr. Duceppe's idea of forming a EU type alliance would be great if we were in Europe, but it won't work in North America, mostly because of our neighbours to the south. Due to the size, economy and population of the USA, individual countries like Alberta, Quebec, Ontario would have even less leverage against the US than Canada does now.