Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

[DasFX]

Mr. Duceppe stated that Quebec is a nation and such that it should be sovereign. What exactly does he mean? Who is part of this Quebec nation? I understand that Quebec is distinct in its language, culture and heritage, but how does this lead to separation?

Is there anyone that can explain this rhetoric?

 

[Jersay]

Being French Canadian, I agree that Quebec is a nation, just like the other nations in Canada, First Nations, Metis Nation, Acadian Nation.

But from what I guess Duceppe was saying, we are a nation and we want to discuss things on a nation to nation basis, like the First Nations treaties, not to a provincial-state level.

A Nation to Nation, where everyone would be totally respected.

 

[Jay]

It only makes sense that if Quebec is a nation with its own piece of land, its own language and culture etc...It should be in control of its own destiny as a collective. For Martin to declare Quebec is a nation carries a lot of weight, and promotes this idea. That is why Martin is so hesitant to say it out load for all to hear.

It isn't just some sort of mumbo jumbo, politically correct pandering, like calling the Acadians a nation....this carries far more weight.

 

[Jersay]

I guess that is why Martin said Nation in French first.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

It only makes sense that if Quebec is a nation with its own piece of land, its own language and culture etc...It should be in control of its own destiny as a collective. For Martin to declare Quebec is a nation carries a lot of weight, and promotes this idea. That is why Martin is so hesitant to say it out load for all to hear.

It isn't just some sort of mumbo jumbo, politically correct pandering, like calling the Acadians a nation....this carries far more weight.

But what defines a nation? How is this Quebec "nation" different from Acadians, The Cree, Scots, Catalans, etc.?

As for Quebecers being in control of their own destiny, how really are they not in control now?

 

[Jersay]

Because on the International stage they are a province, not a state. They are apart of Canada!

 

[Said1]

I agree too, that Quebec is clearly a nation, although they are not recognized as such, hence Martin's hesitence in using the term in english when refering to Quebec.

 

[DasFX]

Being French Canadian, I agree that Quebec is a nation, just like the other nations in Canada, First Nations, Metis Nation, Acadian Nation.

But from what I guess Duceppe was saying, we are a nation and we want to discuss things on a nation to nation basis, like the First Nations treaties, not to a provincial-state level.

A Nation to Nation, where everyone would be totally respected.

Who is a part of this Quebec nation? Is it only the French of Quebec? What defines the nation of Quebec? What makes Quebec a nation, whereas Newfoundland is not or Ontario?

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I agree too, that Quebec is clearly a nation,

I am not disagreeing with you, but how is it clearly a nation?

 

[Said1]

Because on the International stage they are a province, not a state. They are apart of Canada!

A nation is a group of people, not necessarily pocessing state boundries. If they did infact win a yes vote, they'd be a nation state. For now, their just a nation-province. :wink:

 

[Jersay]

That's the problem. Who is apart of this nation. That is why, the seperatists did not win last time because they basically excluded allophones.

This time they are trying to be inclusive but they are the same as last time.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I agree too, that Quebec is clearly a nation,

I am not disagreeing with you, but how is it clearly a nation?

They are a group of people, united through common language, history and interests. More or less.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I agree too, that Quebec is clearly a nation,

I am not disagreeing with you, but how is it clearly a nation?

They are a group of people, united through common language, history and interests. More or less.

Okay, in this sense I agree, but there are a whole lot of people residing in Quebec who, by your definition, are not part of this Quebec nation. Anglophones, immigrants and so on. Why does the separatisit continue to mislead people and tell them that they are indeed part of the Quebec nation?

 

[Jersay]

However to become a nation they need to be recognized by a number of nations? Isn't that how it works?

Look at Taiwan. With Quebec they would probably at the most find support in France and that is it.

And with a nation, there are other nations within Canada, the idea of a nation within a nation. I don't know if something could work out to make Quebec work as a nation within a nation.

 

[DasFX]

That's the problem. Who is apart of this nation. That is why, the seperatists did not win last time because they basically excluded allophones.

This time they are trying to be inclusive but they are the same as last time.

If Anglos and Allos can become part of the Quebec nation, why is it that Quebecers cannot be part of the Canadian nation?

If I moved to Quebec, lived there, worked there, paid taxes there, am I part of the Quebec nation? Am I Quebecois? I would say no.

 

[Jersay]

If Anglos and Allos can become part of the Quebec nation, why is it that Quebecers cannot be part of the Canadian nation?

If I moved to Quebec, lived there, worked there, paid taxes there, am I part of the Quebec nation? Am I Quebecois? I would say no.

And with the seperatists you are not. They just try to display that to get votes.

Also, with any other nation you can live with them pay taxes, Nisga'a but you are not part of the First Nations, or Acadian Nation or Metis Nation either.

 

[DasFX]

However to become a nation they need to be recognized by a number of nations? Isn't that how it works?

Look at Taiwan. With Quebec they would probably at the most find support in France and that is it.

And with a nation, there are other nations within Canada, the idea of a nation within a nation. I don't know if something could work out to make Quebec work as a nation within a nation.

See, you are mixing the english legal definition of nation and the french socialogical meaning of nation.

Whether or not recognized by other countries, would not the Quebecois people still constitute a nation?

 

[Said1]

However to become a nation they need to be recognized by a number of nations? Isn't that how it works?

Look at Taiwan. With Quebec they would probably at the most find support in France and that is it.

And with a nation, there are other nations within Canada, the idea of a nation within a nation. I don't know if something could work out to make Quebec work as a nation within a nation.

Some international community needs to affirm their status, or at least the Canadian government does, which they don't - only distinct society status - was that Meech lake or Charolotte Town?

Canada on it's own isn't a nation, and I think the independence issue is much bigger than what they'd prefer to be called, but that's just me.

 

[Jersay]

Not exactly? I don't think under International law. Maybe to the Quebec people but I don't think in International law.

 

[Jay]

Nation seems to be a pretty loose term used to describe some sort of collective conscience. It may not be fair for me to say the Acadians aren't a nation; it is just my personal view. I sure do think that the Scotts are though.

Quebecers aren't in control of their own destiny if they are living under a power that they aren't in control of. They can't enter into international agreements of their own choice without the power and influence of the ROC.

I think we can work this out though. I think Quebec could be more empowered if we were following along the lines of the constitution instead of the Liberals and old PC version of federalism. I don’t think Martin or Layton understand this fact in the least.