Protests across Canada denounce wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

[darkbeaver]

Insurgency is not the correct term to describe the perfectly legal resistance to the perfectly illeagle occupation. The Americans and thier quizzling sympathizers will do every kind of dance and squirm to talk themselves arround the criminal acts of invasion and occupation. The death and destruction are the direct responsibility of the occupying forces but the supporters cowardly avoid these facts in thier arguments in these dicussions even in the face of evidence that there we're no WMDs and no threat from Iraq. What was clearly an invasion for profit and control becomes in thier minds an act of liberation and American love for freedom and justice. How sick and blind can people become? When the next nation becomes victim to the American and imperial criminal forces the quizzlings will applaud that as well, indeed they are already agreeing to the destruction of Iran. The same destruction and death awaits all the people of the world and all for the greed and security of the ruling order who frankly are monstersterous liars and murderers of women and children by the millions, but the cowards can look the other way and even support and encourage the crimes of the rich.filth that runs the planet.
There is resistance building to the imperialists, this is and will be a war to free the people of the world of the system of the thieves and murderers who masquarade as humans dressed in suits and ties. Everyday they sign the death warrants of hundreds of thousands with no more thought than the bottom line.
I pity those who forgive the crimes of this empire, yours will be a hard crash to the bottom.

 

[jimmoyer]

Darkbeaver, the ideals got a hold on you. But the fast changing facts have no hold on you.

You are just the flip side of the rightwingers you condemn.

You're the other side of the SAME COIN.

You ARE the DARK BEAVER.

 

[Kreskin]

Darkbeaver, the ideals got a hold on you. But the fast changing facts have no hold on you.

You are just the flip side of the rightwingers you condemn.

You're the other side of the SAME COIN.

You ARE the DARK BEAVER.

That makes him 2.5 cents (half a nickel)

 

[jimmoyer]

Or, Kreskin, instead of using the Canadia or American nickel,
what is half of a Canadian two-nee ?

Loonie ?

But the Dark Beaver is not so loonie as to hit upon the meaning of the word INSURGENCY.

I quote the Dark Beaver:
"Insurgency is not the correct term to describe the perfectly legal resistance to the perfectly illeagle occupation..." end of quote.

There is great debate and great questioning by the Iraqis themselves about the rightness
or wrongness of fellow Iraqis killing each other. Witness the relative quiet
of the inactive Shia militias.

Great, revered elders like al Sistani (a shia leader who has respect from Sunni too) has quietly
showed the shadow of his stature across such a debate.

Insurgency is a debateable term even among the Iraqi indigents. The violent acts don't
always look so patriotic to the Iraqis themselves as they step over the bloody corpses that
you vicariously see from far away.

 

[darkbeaver]

Darkbeaver, the ideals got a hold on you. But the fast changing facts have no hold on you.

You are just the flip side of the rightwingers you condemn.

You're the other side of the SAME COIN.

You ARE the DARK BEAVER.

What you call fast changeing facts Jim have in reality never changed, these facts are the stock in trade of imperial agression, older than history. They may represent something new to you but that's your poverty, not any revealing new truth. I am on the flip side, your insane president framed the struggle well.Though he did not expect to loose when he issued that challenge, when he uttered the word "you are with us or you're with the terrorist" the game was over before he sucked the next foul breath. Arrogance like that begs destruction, when it's over I can see that term being on the coin struck to commemorate the end of the empire.:smile:

 

[mabudon]

HAHAHAHA So Curiosity(sic) you HONESTLY believe that the "government" of Iraq is anything close to being "legitimate"?? If I broke into your house and appointed one of my buddies to be the head of YOUR household, do you REALLY BELIEVE that my buddy would be "governing" your affairs in your best interests?? It honestly is that simple, that is what the situation in Iraq actually IS, which is why it can never succeed as planned or executed

I find it sorta funny that there is still ANY hope of this ridiculous effort coming off as anything other than a GIGANTIC FAILURE. The "options on the table" now are just how to fail in such a way that at least some interests are maintained, and ideally in a way that can be spun as some sort of victory to the gullible, but it is already lost in the "traditional" sense. The stubborn refusal to accept this fact is rather quaint tho, the sheep have been well conditioned to be sure

 

[darkbeaver]

HAHAHAHA So Curiosity(sic) you HONESTLY believe that the "government" of Iraq is anything close to being "legitimate"?? If I broke into your house and appointed one of my buddies to be the head of YOUR household, do you REALLY BELIEVE that my buddy would be "governing" your affairs in your best interests?? It honestly is that simple, that is what the situation in Iraq actually IS, which is why it can never succeed as planned or executed

I find it sorta funny that there is still ANY hope of this ridiculous effort coming off as anything other than a GIGANTIC FAILURE. The "options on the table" now are just how to fail in such a way that at least some interests are maintained, and ideally in a way that can be spun as some sort of victory to the gullible, but it is already lost in the "traditional" sense. The stubborn refusal to accept this fact is rather quaint tho, the sheep have been well conditioned to be sure

But but, Mab the holy American president annoited the new king of Baghdad with his Holy American Liberty Wand. You're just jealous and bitter. hahahahahahahahahahah:lol:

 

[Curiosity]

I think such a statement is presumptious. Because the political agenda of pacisfists differs from others does not mean to suggest they lead empty lives. Most pacifists that I know live quite fulfilling lives, including myself. To suggest they have accomplished "nothing" because you dis-approve of their politics is not a fair statement to make.

Sanctus Sanctus - why are you taking the posts I make so personally?

I am a pacifist. I have never advocated war as a solution to anything. Never. I advocate love and courage for my family members engaged in that war. How could you understand unless you are deeply connected to a service member? It is impossible not to be engaged myself.

I could not kill another except under very dire circumstances of protecting an innocent and then as I have also written, I wonder how I could live with myself if I ever took a life.

War was declared and therefore I stand behind the decisions made by people far more informed than you or I or all the others. I accept, I do not agree but I accept in hopes it will be a lesson learned yet again... but mankind seems to find war as part of growth or gaining wealth or some absurd notion it is a good thing.

For the U.S. to pull out of Iraq as the 'peace protesters are demanding" is suicide for many and emanates from groups who have no idea of what they speak or wish. And again regardless of your denial, protest groups are well organized by movements which are toxic to society as we know it and try to live it within out communities in the western world.

You refer to your peaceful group with the dear friend - a Sister in your faith - that is fine but you would be sick if you knew what kind of people are behind these movements at their very base.
You might want to look outside on occasion and understand what the world is doing when it comes to war and what the world expects of the United States....

I find you very judgmental for a man of the cloth. It is something I hope you are working on Father. I apologize for that personal remark but personal insults seem to have found their way into this discussion, lowering the exchange into the sewer some wish it to become.

 

[jimmoyer]

You might be right Mabudon.

However, is it possible both sides are equally blind, equally confident only they
are right. And that's what I think is crowding out the priority of noticing any changing facts.

Beliefs and opinions harshly outrule the possibility of change.

Can the Surge possibly work ?

I doubt it.

But what the Shia are doing or not doing might make it work.

But already you are seeing some changes by the various Shia. They are mostly standing down.
And al Sistani's quiet presence goes unnoticed by all the headlines that feed us our so-called
wisdom. You are seeing again the questioning of Iraqi killing Iraqi.

Does this bother the ideologues on both sides ?

Yes, facts often refute both sides of an argument. It bothers the Left that stays inside
one groove of thinking that this cannot possibly work. The rightwingers don't care enough
to see the Left's knowlege that breaking into people's homes won't work at all. The Left
doesn't care enough to notice the changing facts of the quiet Shia debate not shouted out
in the headlines they live by.

 

[Logic 7]

The crowds were larger here than ever before, and I was amongst them. It takes a far braver man to cry "peace" than it does to say "war".

Brilliant comment, in fact to wage war behing big technologie and war machines, withouth asking for evidence,against pooor and defensless nation, it is the best definition of being Cowards, and they are a big amount of them in here.

 

[Kreskin]

 

[jimmoyer]

You're killin' me Kreskin.

Great picture.

And Dark Beaver is worthy of our attention. He's barely hanging on the razor edge
thin-ness of a phone line, a tenuous umbilical cord to the world.

 

[tracy]

How do you know the promotion of the concept of peace is not being effective? Must there be enormous and immediate results? do we stop, in essence, dreaming because others have not yet embraced the dream?

I don't think expecting some results after 4 years is asking for anything immediate or enormous. I don't think you necessarily change your goals, but I do think you consider changing your tactics. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Plus if you read my post that you quoted, I hardly think you'd defend the actions I was describing (attacking and polarizing). Maybe I should have used this font to say "THE PEACE ACTIVISTS I AM TALKING ABOUT" so people wouldn't assume I'm talking about anyone who opposes war. I was specifically speaking about one type of person. That doesn't seem like what you'd do to advocate peace.

 

[tracy]

....

What is most surprising to me is how much is being delivered from Canada. I think even the pull out of the Canadian Forces from Afghanistan will not be enough. Canadians want more - and when I read some of the commentary here I wonder where Canadians are headed with this kind of thinking.

My parents and most of my friends back home see Afghanistan as being very separate from Iraq. I don't know what the stats are in general in Canada, but the majority of people I know support our involvement there.

 

[darkbeaver]

My parents and most of my friends back home see Afghanistan as being very separate from Iraq. I don't know what the stats are in general in Canada, but the majority of people I know support our involvement there.

I won't bother to find the latest poll for you but the majority of Canadians do not support the war in Afghanistan which they do not see as separate from Iraq in any way shape or form.:smile:

 

[darkbeaver]

My great grand father was a stunningly handsome and industrious specimin of masculinity, notice the nobel bearing and the spiffy uniform.:lol:

 

[jimmoyer]

There's one thing the average Iraqi knows about us Westerners. We lefties and righties think
there's a world of difference, but the Iraqi knows we're all the same group of confident idiots who
unknowingly will make great mistakes and cause great pain.

The Left will cause great pain by doing nothing and bragging how moral they are.
The Right will be gun-ho thinking they can stop one evil and yet be so incompetent and messy
that much innocent will be killed thus causing a new evil.

Either way both kinds of Westerners share the same obtuseness, the same blindness as
a common denominator.

 

[tamarin]

DB, you're a dangerous and deluded ideologue. Too much pot in your cracker. Canadians overall don't support Afghanistan but they do see the difference between our mission there and the business in Iraq. Iraq is wholly George's baby but Afghanistan, despite the stink, still has the aura of moral purpose.

 

[tracy]

I won't bother to find the latest poll for you but the majority of Canadians do not support the war in Afghanistan which they do not see as separate from Iraq in any way shape or form.:smile:

Well I decided to find one for you. Apparently as of a few months ago Canadians are pretty evenly split on the matter with 50% approving our involvement there and 48% dissaproving of it. There is diversity in Canada, just like there is in the US. Only 2% think we got involved because of negative US influence. Maybe we aren't the anti-American nuts some posts on this bb would lead people to believe.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan/afghanistan-survey2006.html
6. Regarding Canada's military involvement in Afghanistan, do you... (%) 200220042006 March2006 June2006 Oct2006 NovStrongly approve387526612149255623481950Somewhat approve373528312531Somewhat disapprove113315351648154018501848Strongly disapprove122032253230

 

[mabudon]

Tamarin, I'm noticing a "leitmotif" in your posts today, something about ad hominem something or other directed straight at DB- could jsut be all the weed I've smoked tho making me see things