Pride Flag

[Serryah]

Hmm. . . should it worry me that I agree with Dix?

Always said the difference between pre-pubescent boys and girls was pretty much academic. If they wanna dress or act like another gender, fine. Messing with their biochem is not a good idea. Without a better argument than what I've heard, I'd forbid it.

And no, I don't believe in parents' rights above all. The state has a legitimate interest in the health and safety of children that can override clearly dangerous beliefs or conduct by parents.

Had to look at what Dix said; I've got them blocked.

No one is giving HRT to pre-pubescent kids unless it's medically necessary, though to be fair there are pre-pubescent kids already getting HRT for other reasons than trans reasons.

HRT is only started when a kid gets close to that age. The thing is, puberty can start as early as 9 in girls, so if there's a trans boy that's already gone through the steps to start HRT, that's when they may start. But a lot of kids don't just automatically get thrown onto HRT as soon as they start to say they are trans. It is, as usual, fear tactics and people just not knowing how the process works.

(I AM fully aware there are unethical doctors who MIGHT pressure things onto kid's parents all in the name of 'helping' them but those instances are RARE, and in those cases the doctor involved should be held accountable and removed of their license and never practice again)

To save a bunch of cross-posting (and whining about multiple posts on the same thing), I posted a video on the GLBTQIA+ thread that actually talks about what it's like to be trans and the steps a trans person goes through (among other things). Now, it IS based on the UK experience, and the US will be different, but as far as I know it's not so much different in Canada.

I also agree it's not "parent's rights above all". Otherwise the state could not step in when there's child endangerment like abuse; say physical about because their religion says it's okay to beat kids, or torture them with exorcism. Or in the case of needing blood transfusions to save their life (though that, again, is religious beliefs and complicated, but IMO religion is also a CHOICE that kids don't make, their parents make for them and if a kid needs a transfusion, the kid should get said transfusion.)

Anyway, I just wish people who were opposed to trans people would actually TALK to trans people, and actually read the studies, not just buy into the fear and hate of idiots.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Had to look at what Dix said; I've got them blocked.

No one is giving HRT to pre-pubescent kids unless it's medically necessary, though to be fair there are pre-pubescent kids already getting HRT for other reasons than trans reasons.

HRT is only started when a kid gets close to that age. The thing is, puberty can start as early as 9 in girls, so if there's a trans boy that's already gone through the steps to start HRT, that's when they may start. But a lot of kids don't just automatically get thrown onto HRT as soon as they start to say they are trans. It is, as usual, fear tactics and people just not knowing how the process works.

I'd still forbid it until adulthood, or one hell of a lot more research.

Anyway, I just wish people who were opposed to trans people would actually TALK to trans people, and actually read the studies, not just buy into the fear and hate of idiots.

Way easier and more comfortable to just sit in the echo chamber and listen to the echoes.

I figure we're just a hop, skip, and jump from "The Liberals are forcibly mutilating kids and True Dope is personally handling the knife!"

And, of course, the Chinese. . .

 

[Ron in Regina]

PARENTS' RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS!

ya fucktards

We've lost our humanity & are causing great pain, distrust & confusion among our youth. This is being done on purpose.

It's shameful that adults are using our kids in this way. Puberty is the answer not blockers!! After puberty, most kids are fine & do well. The odd one who doesn't can wait until adulthood to do whatever it is they want to do with their bodies & accept the consequences of their choices.

Hmm. . . should it worry me that I agree with Dix?

Always said the difference between pre-pubescent boys and girls was pretty much academic. If they wanna dress or act like another gender, fine. Messing with their biochem is not a good idea. Without a better argument than what I've heard, I'd forbid it.

And no, I don't believe in parents' rights above all. The state has a legitimate interest in the health and safety of children that can override clearly dangerous beliefs or conduct by parents.

Well, on the above note, I’m playing catch-up without the time to do so. Are you debating this?

Parental rights are now a “far right” political issue, according to Justin Trudeau.

It may be that the prime minister didn’t mean to disparage millions of parents by lumping them in with other far-right radicals like white supremacists and fascists, but that he did so speaks to his tendency to shoot from the lip.

It is unfortunate that, once again, Trudeau, who has often denounced partisanship while urging conciliation, uses inflammatory rhetoric which will alienate a large portion of Canadians.

Trudeau’s divisive language comes in the wake of the government of New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs making controversial changes to gender rules in the province’s schools.

One major change is that parental consent would be required for trans or nonbinary students under the age of 16 to change their names or pronouns in school. Higgs, who is facing a revolt from some of his own members about the policy, has defended it as “taking a strong position for families.” Etc…

Michael Higgins: Justin Trudeau dismisses parental rights as 'far right' — National Post

Prime minister targets New Brunswick premier over policy of informing parents about their child changing genders

apple.news

In most of Canada — as documented previously — it is now official policy to keep parents in the dark if children come out as trans to teachers. These guidelines have been brought in by stealth and without discussion with parents.

Into this highly-charged and emotional debate, where one hopes that balance, nuance, and respect might reign, steps the prime minister.

“Far-right political actors are trying to outdo themselves with the types of cruelty and isolation they can inflict on these already vulnerable people,” the prime minister said last Thursday as he targeted Higgs’ new policy.

“Right now, trans kids in New Brunswick are being told they don’t have the right to be their true selves, that they need to ask permission. Well, trans kids need to feel safe, not targeted by politicians.

“We have to stand against this. We have to stand up for the freedoms we believe in and continue our work of letting love be louder than hate.”

To be clear: “standing against this” is to object to a policy that gives parents the right to be told by teachers whether their under 16 year old child may be transitioning to a different gender.

And Higgs is “far-right” because of his support for parental rights which must therefore be a far-right policy in the eyes of Trudeau. Etc….

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No, I was just stating my position clearly.

And in case I haven't already made it clear, any Canadian government is far too invasive of private matters. But True Dope is a reliable indicator of "What's the dumbest thing the government could do right. . . this. . . moment?"

 

[Serryah]

I'd still forbid it until adulthood, or one hell of a lot more research.

The thing with HRT is it's been in use for a while to prevent puberty, just not for trans specific uses. So the research is out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6780820/ <------ as it pertains to women specifically.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183530/ <------ focused more for kids.

There's risks, yes, but there's risks for most everything really when it comes to medicine, and it's rare that kids and parents go into this without knowing those risks.

Way easier and more comfortable to just sit in the echo chamber and listen to the echoes.

True.

I figure we're just a hop, skip, and jump from "The Liberals are forcibly mutilating kids and True Dope is personally handling the knife!"

And, of course, the Chinese. . .

Sadly.

Well, on the above note, I’m playing catch-up without the time to do so. Are you debating this?

Parental rights are now a “far right” political issue, according to Justin Trudeau.

Ya, but JT is a fucking moron.

It may be that the prime minister didn’t mean to disparage millions of parents by lumping them in with other far-right radicals like white supremacists and fascists, but that he did so speaks to his tendency to shoot from the lip.

It is unfortunate that, once again, Trudeau, who has often denounced partisanship while urging conciliation, uses inflammatory rhetoric which will alienate a large portion of Canadians.

Trudeau’s divisive language comes in the wake of the government of New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs making controversial changes to gender rules in the province’s schools.

Oh gods... yes, the fucker. Higgs has made the issue MORE confusing, not less.

One major change is that parental consent would be required for trans or nonbinary students under the age of 16 to change their names or pronouns in school. Higgs, who is facing a revolt from some of his own members about the policy, has defended it as “taking a strong position for families.” Etc…

Michael Higgins: Justin Trudeau dismisses parental rights as 'far right' — National Post

Prime minister targets New Brunswick premier over policy of informing parents about their child changing genders

apple.news

Except this isn't about "strong position for families", this is virtue signaling to the transphobes and anti-GLBTQIA+ people. Neither he, nor his minister, know what they're doing in regards to this issue. Even THEY are confused on the issue, to be honest.

In most of Canada — as documented previously — it is now official policy to keep parents in the dark if children come out as trans to teachers. These guidelines have been brought in by stealth and without discussion with parents.

Good. There are some parents who DON'T need to know their kid is trans.

Into this highly-charged and emotional debate, where one hopes that balance, nuance, and respect might reign, steps the prime minister.

Yeah, not so much "balance, nuance and respect" when there are parents out there who would flip their shit to find out their kid is trans, kick them out of their home, demand they just "stop" and so on and so on.

“Far-right political actors are trying to outdo themselves with the types of cruelty and isolation they can inflict on these already vulnerable people,” the prime minister said last Thursday as he targeted Higgs’ new policy.

True 'nuff.

“Right now, trans kids in New Brunswick are being told they don’t have the right to be their true selves, that they need to ask permission. Well, trans kids need to feel safe, not targeted by politicians.

Also true.

“We have to stand against this. We have to stand up for the freedoms we believe in and continue our work of letting love be louder than hate.”

Meh, this is blah blah feel good BS.

To be clear: “standing against this” is to object to a policy that gives parents the right to be told by teachers whether their under 16 year old child may be transitioning to a different gender.

That's right. Because, again, not all parents would be happy with their kid being trans. So in those instances, who should people protect: parental ego's or kid's lives?

And Higgs is “far-right” because of his support for parental rights which must therefore be a far-right policy in the eyes of Trudeau. Etc….

He IS far right. The man is a goddamn moron who doesn't give a sweet fuck about anything but himself and I heard that from people who know him personally, so...

Oh, and one of the solutions? Have psych available to kids in school. Great idea, except he promised to hire more psych for school FIVE YEARS AGO (at election time, of course, promising to get it done "immediately")... and hasn't done shit since.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-policy-713-freedom-of-expression-transgender-children-1.6873461

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-26-information-morning-moncton/clip/15990639-attempts-clarify-new-brunswicks-policy-713-causing-confusion

https://euro.dayfr.com/local/326489.html

Seems there is more support for 713 than there is people who are against it.

New Brunswick parent speaks against LGBTQ2 school policy review | Globalnews.ca

The New Brunswick government says it is reviewing policy 713, a sexual orientation and gender identity policy, after misconceptions and concerns brought forward.

globalnews.ca

People in Moncton hold rally in support of Policy 713

A Saturday afternoon rally in Moncton highlighted support for 2SLGBTQIA+ students as the provincial government continues a controversial review.

atlantic.ctvnews.ca

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The thing with HRT is it's been in use for a while to prevent puberty, just not for trans specific uses. So the research is out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6780820/ <------ as it pertains to women specifically.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183530/ <------ focused more for kids.

There's risks, yes, but there's risks for most everything really when it comes to medicine, and it's rare that kids and parents go into this without knowing those risks.

I'll do some research. Thanks for the starting points.

 

[Serryah]

I'll do some research. Thanks for the starting points.

No worries; thank you for at least being willing to look into it. More people need to.

 

[petros]

I'll do some research. Thanks for the starting points.

Leuprorelin
Drug

Description​

Leuprorelin, also known as leuprolide, is a manufactured version of a hormone used to treat prostate cancer, breast cancer, endometriosis, uterine fibroids, as part of transgender hormone therapy, for early puberty, or to perform chemical castration of violent sex offenders. Wikipedia
Routes of administration: implant, subcutaneous, intramuscular
Other names: leuprolide, leuprolidine, A-43818, Abbott-43818, DC-2-269, TAP-144
Pregnancy category: AU: D
AHFS/Drugs.com: Monograph
ATC code: L02AE02 (WHO)
Elimination half-life: 3 hours
Excretion: Kidney

 

[Serryah]

Nazi flags, DeSantis flags fly outside Disney. What does the law say about free speech?

Drivers in Orlando spotted 15 protestors outside Disney World holding Nazi flags. What does the first amendment say?

www.heraldtribune.com

So I guess the response to Pride Flags is... Nazi flags?

Sure, it's free speech, but... well, Nazi's.

 

[petros]

Its Men's Health Month....could you tell?

 

[pgs]

Well, on the above note, I’m playing catch-up without the time to do so. Are you debating this?

Parental rights are now a “far right” political issue, according to Justin Trudeau.

It may be that the prime minister didn’t mean to disparage millions of parents by lumping them in with other far-right radicals like white supremacists and fascists, but that he did so speaks to his tendency to shoot from the lip.

It is unfortunate that, once again, Trudeau, who has often denounced partisanship while urging conciliation, uses inflammatory rhetoric which will alienate a large portion of Canadians.

Trudeau’s divisive language comes in the wake of the government of New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs making controversial changes to gender rules in the province’s schools.

One major change is that parental consent would be required for trans or nonbinary students under the age of 16 to change their names or pronouns in school. Higgs, who is facing a revolt from some of his own members about the policy, has defended it as “taking a strong position for families.” Etc…

Michael Higgins: Justin Trudeau dismisses parental rights as 'far right' — National Post

Prime minister targets New Brunswick premier over policy of informing parents about their child changing genders

apple.news

In most of Canada — as documented previously — it is now official policy to keep parents in the dark if children come out as trans to teachers. These guidelines have been brought in by stealth and without discussion with parents.

Into this highly-charged and emotional debate, where one hopes that balance, nuance, and respect might reign, steps the prime minister.

“Far-right political actors are trying to outdo themselves with the types of cruelty and isolation they can inflict on these already vulnerable people,” the prime minister said last Thursday as he targeted Higgs’ new policy.

“Right now, trans kids in New Brunswick are being told they don’t have the right to be their true selves, that they need to ask permission. Well, trans kids need to feel safe, not targeted by politicians.

“We have to stand against this. We have to stand up for the freedoms we believe in and continue our work of letting love be louder than hate.”

To be clear: “standing against this” is to object to a policy that gives parents the right to be told by teachers whether their under 16 year old child may be transitioning to a different gender.

And Higgs is “far-right” because of his support for parental rights which must therefore be a far-right policy in the eyes of Trudeau. Etc….

Its Men's Health Month....could you tell?

Hey want to buy some Viagra ?

 

[Dixie Cup]

Agreed. Which does NOT mean I'll agree with you on whether a given event or practice "endangers" a child.

But when the event or practice is a major change to the kid's biochem and/or anatomy absent a clear danger to the kid, the state has an interest that overrides that of the parents or the kid.

Well I agree to disagree with the latter part of your post. Unless the child is in some kind of danger from its parents/guardians, the state has no business to be involved.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well I agree to disagree with the latter part of your post. Unless the child is in some kind of danger from its parents/guardians, the state has no business to be involved.

How about if the kid is in danger from the polio virus?

 

[petros]

How about if the kid is in danger from the polio virus?

What if the marmalade monster stuck your toes together?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What if the marmalade monster stuck your toes together?

Go crush on your Nigerian.

 

[petros]

They dont have issues with polio in Nigeria either.

Polio is no longer endemic in Nigeria – UN health agency

The World Health Organization (WHO) announced today that polio is no longer endemic in Nigeria, leaving the devastating disease endemic in only two countries and bringing the world one major step closer to achieving this goal of ending polio for good.“The outstanding commitment and efforts that...

www.un.org

But the marmalade monster....boy howdy!

 

[Dixie Cup]

How about if the kid is in danger from the polio virus?

Well, if it's anything like the Covid virus, then parents would be in the dark about how dangerous it was wouldn't they?

Previously, governments actually had some semblance of duty/responsibility to their constituents but that's not true any more. They don't have our best interests at heart, only their agenda's so as far as I'm concerned. If the polio vaccine were to be produced today, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't want the shot because of the previous lies made by said government that had, unfortunately, nothing to do with science or medicine.

Forcing scientists & others (i.e. doctors who refused had their licenses suspended) to lie about a product isn't conducive to governing well don't you think?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well, if it's anything like the Covid virus, then parents would be in the dark about how dangerous it was wouldn't they?

Previously, governments actually had some semblance of duty/responsibility to their constituents but that's not true any more. They don't have our best interests at heart, only their agenda's so as far as I'm concerned. If the polio vaccine were to be produced today, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't want the shot because of the previous lies made by said government that had, unfortunately, nothing to do with science or medicine.

Forcing scientists & others (i.e. doctors who refused had their licenses suspended) to lie about a product isn't conducive to governing well don't you think?

I thought we were talking about the role of government generically, not the shitshow y'all put in place.

 

[harrylee]

I thought we were talking about the role of government generically, not the shitshow y'all put in place.

HAHA....Speaking of shit shows.......lol

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

HAHA....Speaking of shit shows.......lol

Brilliant, insightful political analysis there, dipshit.