Pope visits Africa, reaffirms ban on condoms

[SirJosephPorter]

You, however, called, with all the in will and bad intentions a typical left-winger can muster, denigrated your Prime Minister with ill-placed sarcasm and similarly, you mocked a lady who is the successful Governor of the most resource-rich State, and who earned to be elected and then re-elected to her post.

Yukon Jack, ‘your Prime minister’? By that since you are talking to me, you mean that he is my Prime Minister. Sure he is, but isn’t he also your Prime Minister? I thought he is the Prime minister of Canada, and so of all Canadians, not just my Prime Minister.

Sarcasm and mockery are well established, well accepted debating tools, there is nothing wrong with them.

 

[YukonJack]

SirJosephPorter, First you declared that referring to any individual in a - perceived - derogatory way is a no no. I asked you if that includes their philosophy, idealogy and religion.

Your post #160 makes it clear that "offending" individuals is a no-no. It also makes it claer that "offending" groups is a no-no.

Obviously, it just depends what individual and what group we are dealing with.

So, you give up on me. The feeling is mutual.

 

[YukonJack]

Re #161.

Unlike you, I am happy and proud to call Stepen Harper MY Prime Minister.

You should pick up a dictionary and learn the difference berween 'sarcasm' and 'dispespect'.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re #161.

Unlike you, I am happy and proud to call Stepen Harper MY Prime Minister.

You should pick up a dictionary and learn the difference berween 'sarcasm' and 'dispespect'.

Now that is a matter of opinion, isn’t it? One man’s disrespect is another man’s sarcasm.

 

[tracy]

In reality, the document was an appeal based on the fact that almost 100% of Canadian Catholic couples chose to ignore the Vatican encyclical. Bad law is unenforceable!

But, do you know if Catholic couples in African countries where HIV infections are rampant are given the same latitude? I am sure neither you nor I know, so the context and possible harm of the current pope's comment is debatable.

This is something that does bother me. In the west, most Catholics use birth control. So, the church bows to practicality and doesn't make it such an issue. Married catholics who don't want children could follow the church teachings perfectly by simply being abstinent, but they don't. In much the same way, Africans could follow church teachings perfectly by being abstinent before marriage and monogomous afterwards but they don't. Practicality is a concern here, but not in Africa for some reason where the consequences are much worse. I think that position is wrong, so I won't become a Catholic any time soon. That's my solution to the issue. Don't like em, don't join em. Simple.

If Africans had the same education and access to birth control I suspect they would do the same thing there. That's the real imbalance that is offensive: ACCESS and EDUCATION. Forget the religious prohibition for a minute and look at the practicality. Many Africans are poorly educated about STDs and their access to condoms is limited. The pope could come out tomorrow and say condoms were required and it wouldn't matter. You're talking about an area of the world where most people are dirt poor. How are they going to get condoms?

 

[petros]

How does one explain all the papal bastards through the ages? Even a women managed to become Pope. So much for "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes!"

 

[gerryh]

How does one explain all the papal bastards through the ages? Even a women managed to become Pope. So much for "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes!"

More bullshyte from the Catholic bashers.

 

[YukonJack]

What seems to be lost in this entire debate is that the Pope can not and does not ORDER anything to the non-Catholic world. Nobody, but Catholics has to do what he says. Nobody, but Catholics has to listen to his message.

The rest of the world can live or die, (as in the case of Africa) if they ignore the sage and moral advise of the Holy Father.

To blame him (or any Pope) for the plight of Africans infected and dying of HIV/AIDS is equivalent to blaming a rooster for causing morning by crowing.

 

[Spade]

16.5% of Africans are Catholic. Papal errors do matter.

 

[gerryh]

16.5% of Africans are Catholic. Papal errors do matter.

and if any of that 16.5% are dieing of AIDS, it's not because of what the Pope doesn't allow, it's because they chose to ignore what the Pope say's is not allowed and done it anyways. If they followed Catholic doctorine, they wouldn't have AIDS. It has been THIER choice all along.

 

[lone wolf]

and if any of that 16.5% are dieing of AIDS, it's not because of what the Pope doesn't allow, it's because they chose to ignore what the Pope say's is not allowed and done it anyways. If they followed Catholic doctorine, they wouldn't have AIDS. It has been THIER choice all along.

No ... if they followed Catholic doctrine, they'd just be grumpy old men....

 

[OkiefromMuskoki]

gerryh

There is such a place as the real world. Church doctrine has changed many times in the past and it will change many times in the future.

There comes a time when any sensible leader of an organization knows when change is due. If his doctrine is causing (much) more suffering than it is preventing, and being ignored by a vast majority, then any sane Pope would get the message and put the wheels in motion to change doctrine. If he is waiting for the burning bush before he changes his policy he is delusionary.

 

[YukonJack]

"No ... if they followed Catholic doctrine, they'd just be grumpy old men...."

Oh, boy, am I ever glad I have read this wise post, no doubt, inspired by love for Catholics.

Those who do not like the message and the rules of the Catholic Church and the Holy Father, are free to leave. Let them find a new home wherever they want.

OkiefromMuskoki, the real world is that the ONLY 100% prevention from STD and unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. If people (wherever and whoever they are) followed his advice there would be fewer unwanted babies born and fewer grown-ups dying.

 

[lone wolf]

"No ... if they followed Catholic doctrine, they'd just be grumpy old men...."

Oh, boy, am I ever glad I have read this wise post, no doubt, inspired by love for Catholics.

Those who do not like the message and the rules of the Catholic Church and the Holy Father, are free to leave. Let them find a new home wherever they want.

OkiefromMuskoki, the real world is that the ONLY 100% prevention from STD and unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. If people (wherever and whoever they are) followed his advice there would be fewer unwanted babies born and fewer grown-ups dying.

Go have another....

 

[Spade]

Those who do not like the message and the rules of the Catholic Church and the Holy Father, are free to leave. Let them find a new home wherever they want.

The Canadian churches would be empty.

 

[Spade]

And in France...

Pope's poll numbers plunge in France
By Francois Mori, AP
PARIS (AP) — A newspaper poll shows Pope Benedict XVI's popularity has plunged in heavily Roman Catholic France.
Le Parisien daily says its survey found 57% of respondents have a negative opinion of the pontiff. That's up from only 25% in a similar poll shortly before his visit to France last September.

Twenty-three percent expressed a positive opinion, down from 53% six months ago. The remainder had no opinion.

The survey of 1,012 adults was conducted Wednesday and Thursday, and published Saturday. It gave no margin of error.

The pope drew criticism from some Western governments for saying Tuesday during a flight to Africa that condoms were not the answer to the continent's AIDS epidemic, suggesting that sexual behavior was the issue.

 

[OkiefromMuskoki]

"the real world is that the ONLY 100% prevention from STD and unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. If people (wherever and whoever they are) followed his advice there would be fewer unwanted babies born and fewer grown-ups dying."

Ya, and if my mother had balls she woulda been my father:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[gerryh]

Ok...so let me get this straight.... The Catholic Church says that pre marital sex is a no no, and extra marital sex is a no no.... and Catholics are free to ignore that papal proclamation as they see fit....... While ignoring this they contract an STD and/or get pregnant..... this is suddenly the Churches fault because along with the above no no's the Church also says that condoms and brith control are a no no......

So..... they ignore the sex thing, and that's OK..... but since they don't ignore the condome thing, it's the Churches fault for their individual choices......

 

[Spade]

And in the States...

From the National Catholic Reporter
Vatican lip service to women in Women's History Month
Mar. 11, 2009
By Aisha S. Taylor and Erin Saiz Hanna
Women

Roy Bourgeois with Aisha S. Taylor and Erin Saiz Hanna

In an infuriating combination of events, the Vatican rang in Women’s History Month by once again paying lip service to women’s equality while showing its true colors. The day before Pope Benedict XVI called for increased commitment to women’s dignity, a Vatican official announced his support for the excommunications of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped by her stepfather.
In Brazil, abortion is illegal except in cases of rape or when a woman’s life is in danger, and both stipulations were fulfilled in this heartbreaking case. The doctors determined that the girl, who weighed only eighty pounds, would not survive this pregnancy. The girl’s 23-year-old stepfather admitted to sexually abusing her for several years, and he is also suspected of abusing her physically disabled 14-year-old sister. He has since been arrested and placed in protective custody.
Last Saturday, Cardinal Giovanni Battista, prefect of the Congregation for Bishops and president of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, defended the excommunications first announced by Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the girl’s local archbishop. The very next day, on March 8—International Women’s Day—Pope Benedict stated, “Today's date invites us to reflect on … our commitment that always and everywhere every woman can live and fully manifest her particular abilities, obtaining complete respect for her dignity."
How can this egregious hypocrisy even be possible?

 

[lone wolf]

Ok...so let me get this straight.... The Catholic Church says that pre marital sex is a no no, and extra marital sex is a no no.... and Catholics are free to ignore that papal proclamation as they see fit....... While ignoring this they contract an STD and/or get pregnant..... this is suddenly the Churches fault because along with the above no no's the Church also says that condoms and brith control are a no no......

So..... they ignore the sex thing, and that's OK..... but since they don't ignore the condome thing, it's the Churches fault for their individual choices......

In one word: Huh?...