Polls

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Quote:
He balanced the budget by crippling health care and other social programs.

The short memory of Harperites is amazing. When Chretien took over from Kim Cambell, he was handed a budget with a forty odd billion dollar deficit. Forty or fifty billion dollar deficits were the only way Mulrony's crowd operated for the whole nine years they were in office. The country was broke. If you are broke, you can't buy all the things you want regardless of how Bush operates. Martin, under Chretien, got rid of the deficit in three years. in another two years they built the GDP up in spite of "free trade" and started putting money back into health care and other social programs again. They even paid down some of the debt. I guess the Harperites would rather we continued to have huge deficits and even more debt but thank God Mulrony's crowd was thrown out by the people. If you listen to Harper, he would have us back building the debt again. We sure as hell don't need that again.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
It's funny...Harper's three main role models, Mulroney; Reagan; and Bush, all ran huge deficits. His economic platform was panned by economists last election. His GST cut was pretty much universally condemned by economists this time around. How come he and his followers keep claiming to be fiscally responsible?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
http://142.206.72.67/03/03a/03a_005d_e.htm


By 1995, the federal government had been spending more than it collected in revenues for 25 consecutive years. The deficit (the amount by which government spending exceeds revenues in any given year) was $37.5 billion on a public accounts basis. As a result of persistent deficit financing, Canada's total debt load (the accumulation of all past deficits and surpluses since Confederation) had grown from $20 billion in 1971 to over $545 billion in 1995. By 1994/95, covering the interest costs alone was costing Canadians $42 billion—more than the annual deficit and some 26% of the entire federal budget. By March 1997, the net federal debt reached an all time high of $588 billion
 

Breakthrough2006

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2005
172
0
16
Harper wants to return to the 1950s. Proper child care costs money and the most efficient way of providing it is through not-for-profit daycares. Those facilities also employ professionals so your kid can actually learn something while they're there.

Not for profit is a misnomer. The CEO of the United Way makes close to $500K per year yet it's a not-for-profit charity. Any money left over gets paid out somewhere so I think you have the wrong idea of what not-for-profit really is.

Why would someone want to employ a third person to look after their kids if they had a "choice" to raise them themselves? Are you implying that day care workers would look after your kids better than you can? Why not just hand our kids over to the state and they can return them to us when they turn 18?

Canadians still do have a choice, btw. Nobody is talking about kids being forced into daycare. If you want to stay home or leave your kid with drunken old Aunt Unice, that's up to you.

That's not a choice. If you subsidize ONLY day care centres, then parents that choose to raise their kids on their own get left out. What ever happened to equality?

Those people qualify for the GST rebate and don't buy luxuries.

And they would continue to get the GST rebate. The poor would win both ways. Pay less tax and get the rebate.

Just going on Harper's record. He would have scrapped the Canada Health Act and brought in private care.

Any links supporting your claims? Seems to me that the Liberals are the ones who have ALREADY brought in private care. Just ask Paul Martin how he pays for his health care. He uses a "Credit card, NOT a health card". - Jack Layton, Dec 2005.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Nice going Jay but,

If you look a little closer you will find that over 80 percent of the debt was built by Mulroney.
 

Breakthrough2006

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2005
172
0
16
Nice going Jay but,

If you look a little closer you will find that over 80 percent of the debt was built by Mulroney.

A second ago it was all Mulroney's fault and now it's down to 80% his fault. At least we're moving in the right direction. :wink:
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
It might be the case, but if you’re going to say you can't trust the conservatives on this matter, you can't say you can trust the Liberals, and you certainly can't rust the NDP.

Nobody wants to see a return to deficits.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Jay you are still putting a spin on it. Mulroney didn't have the guts to be honest and neither does Harper.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
No, I'm putting into perspective.

No one is going to return to deficits.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Not for profit is a misnomer. The CEO of the United Way makes close to $500K per year yet it's a not-for-profit charity.

This is completely off-topic, has nothing to do with the discussion at all, but since Colpy brought it up I'll answer it anyway. If you compare the wage of the CEO of the United Way with somebody managing the same amount of money, workers, and projects in the private sector, the salary would be much higher, the benefits more lucrative, and there would be huge yearly bonuses.

The expectation that charity and aid workers should work for free is ridiculous. If they aren't paid at least a somewhat competitive wage, they won't be there to do the job.

Why would someone want to employ a third person to look after their kids if they had a "choice" to raise them themselves?

They wouldn't. The reality of shrinking real wages caused by the reluctance of corporations to pay their employees and the influence of those corporationson government, combined with an increasingly consumerist culture that was created and promoted by the corporations that profit from it, has a created a society where both parents have to work in most families.

Are you implying that day care workers would look after your kids better than you can?

Me personally? Wolves could do a better job. Most parents, given the time and money, could do a better job than daycare workers. They don't have that time and money though, and Harper isn't giving it to them.

Why not just hand our kids over to the state and they can return them to us when they turn 18?

Paranoid rhetoric from the radical right. This is the kind of reasoning that Timmy McVeigh and that crowd from Ruby Ridge used to justify their actions.



That's not a choice. If you subsidize ONLY day care centres, then parents that choose to raise their kids on their own get left out. What ever happened to equality?

Parents who don't work can already be claimed as dependents, why can't I claim Mrs. Rev?

And they would continue to get the GST rebate. The poor would win both ways. Pay less tax and get the rebate.

But they'd still be paying GST, most of it on things that aren't luxuries since they do not have the funds to buy luxuries.

Any links supporting your claims?

I've already put the quotes up in a couple of threads. Did you not read those?

It might be the case, but if you’re going to say you can't trust the conservatives on this matter, you can't say you can trust the Liberals, and you certainly can't rust the NDP.

No, you can't "rust" the NDP. They are not made out of cheap metal like the Conservatives are.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
#juan said:
No, I'm putting into perspective.

You are still not admitting that 80 percent of the debt was built under Mulroney.

Oh, I didn't realize that was a requirement. OK, Mulroney did 80% of the debt....(I think, cause I don't have a chart in front of me)

Now that is out of the way; no one is going to be returning to deficit budgets.

I trust the Liberals aren't going to, nor the Conservatives.


I do wonder how many social services that debt bought though...and wasn't it the left who cried the blues as the liberals trimmed spending to cut the deficit. In reality, you can't trust the left to not tax and borrow and spend.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Reverend Blair said:
No, you can't "rust" the NDP. They are not made out of cheap metal like the Conservatives are.

No, they won't rust because they are made of cheap plastic.
 

Breakthrough2006

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2005
172
0
16
This is completely off-topic, has nothing to do with the discussion at all, but since Colpy brought it up I'll answer it anyway. If you compare the wage of the CEO of the United Way with somebody managing the same amount of money, workers, and projects in the private sector, the salary would be much higher, the benefits more lucrative, and there would be huge yearly bonuses.

I completely agree Rev. Then why do you insist that publicy run day care that charges money, is better than parents raising their own kids. Sure the workers make only $30K, but the managers of the day cares will make $60K, then the region managers will make 100K and one day the workers will be ticked off and hold all the kids hostage while they go on strike for a couple of months. After all you just admitted that ..... "The expectation that charity and aid workers should work for free is ridiculous. If they aren't paid at least a somewhat competitive wage, they won't be there to do the job. " My point is, it doesn't matter that it's a not-for-profit day care centre. They can pay themselves "competitive" wages up the wazoo because they know the government is footing a large portion of the bill.

They wouldn't. The reality of shrinking real wages caused by the reluctance of corporations to pay their employees and the influence of those corporationson government, combined with an increasingly consumerist culture that was created and promoted by the corporations that profit from it, has a created a society where both parents have to work in most families.

Then you would have to agree that every dollar that's get's directly put back into the parents hands would make it that much easier for one of the parents to stay home.

Most parents, given the time and money, could do a better job than daycare workers. They don't have that time and money though, and Harper isn't giving it to them.

It certainly wouldn't hurt. The average family has two kids in Canada. That would be $2,400 per year plus an additional $1,200 or so that is already existing. $300 per month doesn't sound like a lot but it would be tax free since the total is below the tax exemption bracket and when you factor in that the parents wouldn't have to pay $1,000 plus for day care every month for two kids plus, transportation back and forth and all the lunches one parent would have to pay for going to work, plus work clothes etc, it starts to make more and more financial sense for one parent to stay home and look after their own kids.

Paranoid rhetoric from the radical right. This is the kind of reasoning that Timmy McVeigh and that crowd from Ruby Ridge used to justify their actions.

This coming from the group that claims Harper will make Canada the 51st state while putting every gay person in prison camps.

Parents who don't work can already be claimed as dependents, why can't I claim Mrs. Rev?

That's a good question. Perhaps you could ask the leader of the party that's been in power for the past 13 years. Harper is looking into income plitting for ALL families, not just the ones that own businesses. This sounds like something even Layton would approve if he had though of it first. After all, why should all those evil businesses have all the tax breaks while the working class can't income split?

But they'd still be paying GST, most of it on things that aren't luxuries since they do not have the funds to buy luxuries.

GST is not a "luxury" tax. It's a tax on pretty much everything. Paying less of it benefits everyone. Especially since the poor will be able to double dip.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Gee, the Bloc are down a couple. Is this a harbinger of things to come?.. :wink:
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
Polling FAQ

A teaser:

How many polls are conducted in Canada each year?

Thousands, when you include political polls, market research polls, social behaviour polls and Statistics Canada surveys on issues such as family makeup and the unemployment rate. Determining the exact number of polls is difficult because individual surveys don't have to be registered anywhere. As well, sometimes companies conduct one "omnibus" survey that asks a number of questions on behalf of different clients. To give an idea of the scope of the Canadian industry, though, the Marketing Research and Intelligence Association says almost three-quarters of a billion dollars changes hands annually over market research activities in this country.[/teaser]

Interesting info and tidbits here if you want to know about how polls are done, what they cost, who responds, who does not and the effects of polls on election day.