Plans For Iran

[darkbeaver]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

SAID1 wrote,

"Why would you think non-proliferation isn't an American priority?"

Well it,s because Americans are proliferating nuclear weapons. :lol: :lol:

We is us, the non American world. :lol:

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

SAID1 wrote,

"Why would you think non-proliferation isn't an American priority?"

Well it,s because Americans are proliferating nuclear weapons. :lol: :lol:

So?

There really are no rules in the international sphere, you're only as good as your might, or your allies.

So again, why wouldn't it be an American priority? We (as in the Canadain government) aren't exactly for it either, regardless of what we own, wouldn't ya say?

Do you recall the arguments against MAD?

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

SAID1 wrote,

"Why would you think non-proliferation isn't an American priority?"

Well it,s because Americans are proliferating nuclear weapons. :lol: :lol:

We is us, the non American world. :lol:

Hate to break it to you junior, but Canada's a fixed piece in the American World.

And look at it this way; the "known world" always has been run, and always will be run by a superpower. Would you rather that superpower be America or Iran? Because if it was Iran, none of us would ever be having this conversation...


Iran want's nukes to attack Israel and her allies. So by allowing Iran to have Nukes, you would be allowing Israel, most likely America and the UK and probably Canada to be nuked by Iran. Iran does not care that you dislike America and defend their "right to nuclear arms" on message boards; they will vaporize you anyway without a second thought. Their goal is to conquer the Western World for Islam, not to even up the score.

And to your argument that it isn't fair for America to have Nukes and Iran to not, I agree with you, and I love it. I do not want the world to be Fair. I don't want the criminals to be as well-armed as the police, and I don't want countries bent on World Theocracy to be as well-armed and powerful as countries who want Democracy and basic Freedoms for its people.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

well, the world will never be fair.

however, it is far easier to uphold the virtues of that inequality when you are on the side with the "deck stacked in your favour".

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

well, the world will never be fair.

however, it is far easier to uphold the virtues of that inequality when you are on the side with the "deck stacked in your favour".

Oh I agree emphatically that it is. However, just because the West is more powerful than Iran does not convince me that Iran should grow in power. If Iran became a civilized, democracy that at least tried to protect the rights of it's people, and ceased calling for the destruction of other countries and genocide of their people, I would not oppose their growing military power. But I am totally against arming people that mean me and my country harm.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

SAID1 wrote,

"Why would you think non-proliferation isn't an American priority?"

Well it,s because Americans are proliferating nuclear weapons. :lol: :lol:

We is us, the non American world. :lol:

Hate to break it to you junior, but Canada's a fixed piece in the American World.

And look at it this way; the "known world" always has been run, and always will be run by a superpower. Would you rather that superpower be America or Iran? Because if it was Iran, none of us would ever be having this conversation...


Iran want's nukes to attack Israel and her allies. So by allowing Iran to have Nukes, you would be allowing Israel, most likely America and the UK and probably Canada to be nuked by Iran. Iran does not care that you dislike America and defend their "right to nuclear arms" on message boards; they will vaporize you anyway without a second thought. Their goal is to conquer the Western World for Islam, not to even up the score.

And to your argument that it isn't fair for America to have Nukes and Iran to not, I agree with you, and I love it. I do not want the world to be Fair. I don't want the criminals to be as well-armed as the police, and I don't want countries bent on World Theocracy to be as well-armed and powerful as countries who want Democracy and basic Freedoms for its people.

Who is this country that wants democracy and basic freedoms for
its people? And don,t tell me it,s the USA. Conquer the western world for Islam? Give your head a shake man.

 

[Gerald24]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Masta yada . are you Micheal Moores publisher?

 

[EagleSmack]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Iran has claimed that Israel should be wiped off the map.

But because they are in opposition to the US people like DarkBeaver are all for them to have them. It is not really that they want Iran to have them but they know that the US is against them having nukes.

So to have a US city vaporized and the fallout poison the wonderful country of Canada is well worth it because the overwhelming hate that they have for the US.

Their hate for the US defies their logic and common sense.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

:!: Self-censoring...
I misunderstood a previous post and, therefore, this post is not appropriate; it is deemed deleted.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

EagleSmack, with all due respect, grow the Hell up.

Canadians do not hate Americans, and for you to be an advocate for the nuclear contamination of Canada is reprehensible. Canadians are not always going to agree with Americans. That does not mean that we have to be mortal enemies, though.

You misunderstood my post completely. I never said that Canadians hate Americans nor would I want Canada to be contaminated with fall out.

What I said was people who do hate the US are blinded by their hate for America and would rather see nations like Iran prevail even though that may not be the best scenario for ALL people.

Some Americans hate the country they live in and never have one thing nice to say... better yet positive to say about this country. And as you may see from time to time some Canadians fall into that category.

But I am not painting all the people of Canada with the broad brush and saying that they all hate the US.

Yes Canada and the US will disagree. I understand that. I think all countries disagree with each other from time to time so I am not condeming Canada for disagreeing with the US at all.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

My sincere apologies, EagleSmack.

You're right, I completely misunderstood your post; it makes more sense now, reading it a second time. Misinterpretation on my part; sorry.

I have deleted the post-in-question.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

jim,

do you really see people supporting Iran's freedom as merely stemming from a hatred of the US?

While maybe some fit that category, I see it as far more complex an issue.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Actually I do, when all is said and done, and we've gone
the long way around the barn, yes, Caracal Kid, it
really does come down to that.

I began as a liberal, very forcefully so, and liberals
were the pioneers and vanguard against nuclear
proliferation.

Sadly they got sidetracked by American sins,
and sadly they got sidetracked by wanting all nations
to disarm and this stopped them from persuing
the most practical and most do-able of all pursuits:
STOP NEW NATIONS FROM GAIN NUCLEAR WEAPON
KNOW-HOW.

Engage a liberal today about Nuclear Non-Proliferation
and see how fast the argument goes to Nuclear
Disarmament of all nations.

Think about it.

It's a big sad mistake, Caracal Kid.

And we are ALL going to pay for it.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Actually I do, when all is said and done, and we've gone
the long way around the barn, yes, Caracal Kid, it
really does come down to that.

I began as a liberal, very forcefully so, and liberals
were the pioneers and vanguard against nuclear
proliferation.

Sadly they got sidetracked by American sins,
and sadly they got sidetracked by wanting all nations
to disarm and this stopped them from persuing
the most practical and most do-able of all pursuits:
STOP NEW NATIONS FROM GAIN NUCLEAR WEAPON
KNOW-HOW.

Engage a liberal today about Nuclear Non-Proliferation
and see how fast the argument goes to Nuclear
Disarmament of all nations.

Think about it.

It's a big sad mistake, Caracal Kid.

And we are ALL going to pay for it.

Actually in the true meaning of Liberal you are very much like a Liberal like the Conservative party of Canada. Actually in the classical sence the Liberal Party has more in common with the Tory's then the Whigs (liberals).

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

I agree with you that the persuit should have been preventing new nations from gaining nuclear capabilities.

Disarmament is like trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
While ideal, it is a very difficult goal to accomplish without actually creating something worse (what makes nuclear weapons obsolete?)

But I don't see how this is tied into some hatred of America.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Well you should see why this ties into hatred of
America. Maybe you are purposely being obtuse on
that matter, because you are a savvy guy.

Of course you've seen people dwell on their
disgust of American hubris on this planet, to the point
they selectively ignore other evils, to the point that
their outrage no longer is consistent in a taut logical
way.

Of course you've seen young people learn of
American sin or Western Imperial sin and so fresh
with this knowledge of the sin of their own heritage
they feel they must compensate for such historical
imbalance.

Only after westerners graduate from Freshman 101
in Hypocrisy and this knowlege grows stale they
move on to a 400 level course that sees evil beyond
the western culture and discovers it from every
angle on the planet, and only then is this a true'
balance.

You know this Caracal Kid.

A lot of compensating is going on here.

In many psychological ways.

And as much as I attack it, I find it paradoxically
making us stronger than any other culture in the
world.

It's called true self-knowlege.

Do others have it?

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Well you should see why this ties into hatred of
America. Maybe you are purposely being obtuse on
that matter, because you are a savvy guy.

Of course you've seen people dwell on their
disgust of American hubris on this planet, to the point
they selectively ignore other evils, to the point that
their outrage no longer is consistent in a taut logical
way.

Of course you've seen young people learn of
American sin or Western Imperial sin and so fresh
with this knowledge of the sin of their own heritage
they feel they must compensate for such historical
imbalance.

Only after westerners graduate from Freshman 101
in Hypocrisy and this knowlege grows stale they
move on to a 400 level course that sees evil beyond
the western culture and discovers it from every
angle on the planet, and only then is this a true'
balance.

You know this Caracal Kid.

A lot of compensating is going on here.

In many psychological ways.

And as much as I attack it, I find it paradoxically
making us stronger than any other culture in the
world.

It's called true self-knowlege.

Do others have it?

Jimmoyer I don,t selectively ignor other evils, I attack the empire because your culture is predominately built on greed and gluttony,
you are the richest therfore you are the evilist.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: PLANS FOR IRAN

Eaglesmack said:

"What I said was people who do hate the US are blinded by their hate for America and would rather see nations like Iran prevail even though that may not be the best scenario for ALL people."

America has prevailed for a long time, with no interest in all the people.

 

[the caracal kid]

jim,

lets look at two perspectives here.

first: "the american"
the american knows what it is like to have had nuclear weapons pointed his way. He knows the comfort of his land being ready to defend itself. He now knows the greater comfort of not having nuclear weapons pointed his way. He however now is reminded of what an attack on home soil is, and is stronger in his conviction to protect himself, his way of life, his country.

secondly: "the other guy" who is not on good terms with america
he too knows what war is like, and knows what an attack on his homeland is like. He however also knows the insecurity of having somebody pointing nuclear weapons at him and his not being of enough strength to deter such an assault. He knows what it is like to pushed around by another country.

Now, as much as it is nice to have the security of the upper hand, is hatred really the only thing you see as a motivator for others to achieve the same level of strength as the US? There is comfort in knowing one is strong enough that the "big guy" won't try anything. That does not mean that the "little guy" hates the big guy.

Disarmament is good
non-proliferation is good
but at the end of the day,
what is best,
is all parties being in situations
where it is NOT in their interests to attack others.
be that because of equal might, or economic ties, or both.

 

[the caracal kid]

unfortunately jim,

you (as in america) can not sit so comfortably,
in your position of advantage,
and expect others to merely look upon you and say, "ok,
that is the USA. They may be big, and they may be strong, but they would never do us harm."
It does not work that way.
If you want to see other countries give up their independent quest for the nuke,
you have to be prepared to give up the nuke yourself.