Pass the Freak Dijon Mustard Please

[Tonington]

Heavy irrigation and heavy fertilization and high pesticide use coupled with hugh fuel costs all to provide signifigantly less nutritious food in addition to the destruction of sustainable agriculture. Everybody that was here before the so called green revolution fed themselves Tonnington, there was nothing in it for the people it was all for money. Developement along the industrial agriculture lines is very destructive very expensive all for poor quality suspect food. The rural types were needed in the factories and so they were driven from the lands by the machine.

Significantly less nutritious ehh? Can you back that one up?

I know very well that humans fed themselves before this beaver, that's not the point. The point is, how do we continue to feed ourselves when we deplete the organic matter in the soil? Are you going to take back land by force from people, and redistribute it as you see fit? So we can all feed ourselves? Who will clear all the land?

Efficiencies are appreciated but the efficiency sought by the shareholders and those who need to eat are two distinctly different things. And now a word about erosion poor or no crop rotation and near complete dependence on hydro-carbons.

Ahh, so there are so many other problems, that the only solution now is to turn back time? Biotech must be evil? Rhetoric is a poor staple to feed to humans Beve.

Agriculture is far too important to leave in the hands of investors and bankers.

If you have some land, nobody is stopping you from using it.

Hey, when herbicide won't kill it maybe you shouldn't eat it.

Newsflash, these genes aren't the result of computer programmers tinkering with nucleic acids. They are copied from what is found in nature. Plants produce secondary metabolites which aren't required for primary metabolism, only to aid with ecosystem interactions. These include natural herbicides and pesticides.

Smaller is better, of every ten households one should be a farm.

Dop you have any suggestions that don't require a dictator?

You got brains, fix it for us will you.:smile:

:lol: I'll get right on that.

 

[darkbeaver]

No I don't have any suggestions not requiring a dictatorial system. Something has to dictate the course of human events, why not necessity instead of money.

 

[L Gilbert]

Anyway, you people that don't mind GEFs can eat it till you start glowing in the dark, lose your eyesight and start dwelling at the bottoms of the oceans. I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies and whoever else that engineers foodstuffs to place my and my family's health over their bank accounts nor do I trust them to never make booboos.

 

[L Gilbert]

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/geff4.html

GM foods becoming an ecological disaster, warns institute

Last September, hungry villagers stole 500 bags of maize from a UN storeroom in Zambia. For the villagers, the loot was fast food. For the authorities, a big problem. The maize was genetically modified (GM) food aid from the USA, awaiting governmental approval. A few weeks later, Zambia became the first developing country to officially reject GM food aid.

Gripped by a severe food crisis plus the HIV/AIDS epidemic, when 2.3 million people needed food aid, President Mwanawasa affirmed he would not feed “this poison” to his people. “It was immoral to bring GM maize into an independent sovereign country without our approval, immoral to store it in areas of deep hunger,” fumes Bernadette Lubozhya, a Zambian agronomist.

Many humanitarians disagree. “This is not the right time to debate GM food when people are starving,” says the UN’s Andrew Timpson. Lesotho, Mozambique, Swaziland and Zimbabwe accepted GM maize if it was milled before or upon arrival, so it could not be planted. Only Malawi allowed in unmilled GM maize.

Critics worry about the impact on biodiversity and health. Through cross-pollination, GM traits could contaminate local non-GM crops and, through the feed chain, livestock. This could jeopardize valuable agricultural exports to the EU, which bans GM food. According to the UN’s special rapporteur for the right to food: “GMOs could pose a danger to the human organism and public health in the medium and long term.”

- Red Cross Red Crescent - World Disasters Report 2003 - Chapter 3

 

[Tonington]

Human beings have been modifying crops for thousands of years. Look up the history of some of your favourite crops, from poisonous grasses and toxic seeds to table tops today.

For all the rhetoric on this issue, nobody has any kind of workable solutions yet to this scenario: rising energy costs, continued human population growth, finite soil resources, and looming environmental threats.

I'm not advocating molecular genetics as the solution to all our ills, but I'm not going to discard potential solutions because there have been failures and unintended consequences. That happens whether or not we discover a gene to make fungus that grows rapidly on rust, and tastes like good chantrelles.

 

[CDNBear]

Human beings have been modifying crops for thousands of years. Look up the history of some of your favourite crops, from poisonous grasses and toxic seeds to table tops today.

For all the rhetoric on this issue, nobody has any kind of workable solutions yet to this scenario: rising energy costs, continued human population growth, finite soil resources, and looming environmental threats.

And I can't answer those questions either Ton, but I'm not saying we ban the search and research, I'm saying we need safe guards.

I'm not advocating molecular genetics as the solution to all our ills, but I'm not going to discard potential solutions because there have been failures and unintended consequences. That happens whether or not we discover a gene to make fungus that grows rapidly on rust, and tastes like good chantrelles.

lol...We need better safe guards Ton, but the only thing that seems to be of any concern to the powers that be is, the all mighty dollar.

 

[petros]

I know very well that humans fed themselves before this beaver, that's not the point. The point is, how do we continue to feed ourselves when we deplete the organic matter in the soil? Are you going to take back land by force from people, and redistribute it as you see fit? So we can all feed ourselves? Who will clear all the land?

This troublesome issue is being solved little by little everyday as the 3rd World War continues.

How long have we been at war with the 3rd world now?

Since the dawn of time?

 

[L Gilbert]

That's right. People have been hybridising and whanot for thousands of years. I can't think of one story where cross pollinating has resulted in something that results in the deaths of people, though.
We're not against GEFs, just avoiding them until they're safer, like nuked foods. We're perfectly content with food that hasn't been genetically messed with.

 

[Tonington]

lol Some people just have no idea what the consequences of genetic engineering can do.

Looking Back at Genetic Engineering's First Deadly Disaster: L-tryptophan

Well, maybe that's what really happened, or maybe people who were taking this supplement didn't need to be taking it. Maybe they took so much, that their body could no longer degrade histamines.

It's likely not as certain as the folks at the Organic Consumers Organization would have you believe. :idea:

 

[L Gilbert]

....We need better safe guards Ton, but the only thing that seems to be of any concern to the powers that be is, the all mighty dollar.

Yup. I don't even suspect their motives for messing with food. I KNOW their bottom line is money and not the health and welfare of people. That makes their activities and products suspect.

 

[petros]

That's right. People have been hybridising and whanot for thousands of years. I can't think of one story where cross pollinating has resulted in something that results in the deaths of people, though.
We're not against GEFs, just avoiding them until they're safer, like nuked foods. We're perfectly content with food that hasn't been genetically messed with.

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?

 

[petros]

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?

Answer: With a shotgun shell.

 

[L Gilbert]

Well, maybe that's what really happened, or maybe people who were taking this supplement didn't need to be taking it. Maybe they took so much, that their body could no longer degrade histamines.

It's likely not as certain as the folks at the Organic Consumers Organization would have you believe. :idea:

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.

 

[L Gilbert]

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?

lmao that's pretty good

 

[CDNBear]

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.

Bingo!!!

 

[petros]

lmao that's pretty good

That is the truth. They literally blast fish genes lathered on powdered gold and shot gun blast them into tomato genes.

You think that has been happening for thousands of years?

 

[Tonington]

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.

There's nothing wrong with wary. Scapegoating is not the same thing as being wary. Fear mongering is not the same thing as being precautious. If you eat anything you didn't grow your self, you're taking a risk that at least ten hands between you and the producer had your health in mind. Again, this is not something limited to the crossroads of molecular genetics and agriculture.

The article this thread is based on, fear mongering. Your article that I responded to, scapegoating. I'm all about growing your own food, but unfortunately agriculture isn't high on everyones list, until you convince them that they're producing tomatoes with flat fish testes or something to that effect...

 

[petros]

GMO crops have brand new amino acids and complex carbs never put to the test of the human immune system.

Why is that an issue? Guess what else are amino acids and complex carbs?

Viruses.

 

[Tonington]

You think that has been happening for thousands of years?

No, it was an unsuccessful project. They did this for a short time in the hopes that fruit and vegetables could be made to survive frost conditions. It didn't work, so nobody eats and fruit or vegetables that includes a gene that expresses as flounder antifreeze proteins.

 

[petros]

No, it was an unsuccessful project. They did this for a short time in the hopes that fruit and vegetables could be made to survive frost conditions. It didn't work, so nobody eats and fruit or vegetables that includes a gene that expresses as flounder antifreeze proteins.

So what is it that did work in Monsnato Round Up ready crops? Was it another canola on canola or corn on corn with pollen? Why was wheat banned from being GMO? Why is there a seed vault on Svaldgard Island?