Panhandlers

[CBC News]

Staff at one of Vancouver's oldest Catholic churches said on Thursday that the cathedral is under siege by panhandlers, following what police called a "cowardly" attack on a 79-year-old man the day before.

A bearded man threw a 79-year-old man to the floor, took money from his wallet and fled the Holy Rosary Cathedral in downtown Vancouver on Wednesday. (CBC).
(RTR Channel/Associated Press) ​

Father Glenn Dion said the incident was terrible, but not surprising.
"We have people coming in here and they're in another world and they're either doped up or drunk up or else they're in some psychological impairment."
As of Thursday night, the suspect in the mugging is still at large.
Police described the suspect as a white male, about 40 to 45 years old, with a receding hairline, a beard and a moustache.
Full story
Does this affect your opinion of panhandlers, and of what we should be doing about homeless and street people?


More...

 

[tamarin]

Cities in southern Ontario have been fighting this same scourge for years. Nothing seems to get done. Hmmm...isn't that a familiar Canadian story?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Actually panhandling is a craft in itself.

This guy is a mugger...Lumping the two together to get panhandlers off the street in just unfair....
Sigh.....

 

[Twila]

The only thing society has done to correct this problem is put a big bandaid over it. The drug addicts and homeless people are not the disease, but a symptom.

Our society is sick. There are a couple of ethnic groups that are disproportionately high in homelessness and addiction while there are some ethnic groups that seem to have a microscopic problem. A commonality in the ethnic groups with very low addiction rates is how family is viewed. Interesting, wouldn't you say?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

The only thing society has done to correct this problem is put a big bandaid over it. The drug addicts and homeless people are not the disease, but a symptom.

Our society is sick. There are a couple of ethnic groups that are disproportionately high in homelessness and addiction while there are some ethnic groups that seem to have a microscopic problem. A commonality in the ethnic groups with very low addiction rates is how family is viewed. Interesting, wouldn't you say?

Yeah..but i don't get what ya mean by

A commonality in the ethnic groups with very low addiction rates is how family is viewed

Your opening sentences:

The only thing society has done to correct this problem is put a big bandaid over it. The drug addicts and homeless people are not the disease, but a symptom.

Are right on the mark

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I just want to add..I don't get how people want to do anything but help these people...closing off the cities to them is cruel..It's not like magicaly they get better....

 

[Cosmo]

Actually panhandling is a craft in itself.

This guy is a mugger...Lumping the two together to get panhandlers off the street in just unfair....
Sigh.....

I agree, Doc. Big difference between the two.

As for panhandlers in general, it depends entirely on the individual. You can't describe a whole set of people with one word ... they're like any other group. Some are great, some are annoying, some are just plain nuts. The ones that bother me are the window cleaners who just run up at stop lights and start smearing dirty rags over my windshield. It drives me batsh*t. I've threatened more than one of them with a soapy rag enema if they persist. On the other hand, the ones who offer nicely at a light and accept no for an answer usually get a looney from me on principle. Gotta respect a work ethic and a positive customer service attitude.

I almost always take the time to speak with a panhandler before I give them money. If they are rude, obnoxious or obviously kids just looking to enhance their allowance, I just grin, shake my head and walk on. If they are friendly and willing to share some of their story with me I always do what I can. Sometimes I'll get them to help me carry my groceries to my truck and give them $5 for the work. That feels more like a fair exchange. If they're obviously nuts, I gotta do what I can for them. Our government has displaced so many mentally ill people and it infuriates me.

Either way, I always make eye contact with panhandlers and recognize them as human beings. Too many people treat them like mosquitos. Could be why some of them slide toward mugging rather than panhandling. I don't have to agree with their lifestyle or the way they manage their world but I do owe them the courtesy of treating them like a human being and not a pest.

 

[#juan]

In Granville Mall in Vancouver, some of these bums just don't take no for an answer. The last time I was over, I had the same, aggressive jerk in my face for half a block refusing to believe that I had nothing for him. I may just have no change and not want to give out a twenty dollar bill, but I don't owe these guys an explanation. If you give one something its sometimes like starting a feeding frenzy. Do we really want to support this activity? Most of the panhandlers on Granville are young people who could be either at home or working for a living.

 

[Colpy]

I'm usually a soft touch for panhandlers.....unless they are drunk, bombed otherwise, or show any signs whatsoever of aggression. I don't mind giving a bit, even being conned a bit, but I won't be intimidated.

A good friend, years ago had a panhandler try to snatch his wallet out of his shirt pocket after being refused change. For the Saint Johners, we were walking through the Loyalist Burial grounds at night.......anyway, My buddy was 6' tall, and weighed about 145 lbs.....looked like an easy mark, and the panhandler was with two friends.

Wrong.

Martial arts freak.

With a very short fuse.

Panhandler got a broken arm......or at least the next time we saw him he was in a cast. We didn't stick around at the time to answer questions.

BTW, he didn't approach us the next time, either.

 

[Avro]

Handing a homeless guy a few bucks dosen't help them one bit. In most cases that money is turned into drugs or alcohol. The best way to combat the homeless issue is to get the mentally ill off the street and into institutions and yes that means against their will if neccessary. We need afordable housing and real help for those with severe addictions. For those that are just to lazy to work.....****'EM! There is no reason in my mind that any single able bodied person can't find some work to get themselves off the street and into a normal life.

 

[Cosmo]

Handing a homeless guy a few bucks dosen't help them one bit. In most cases that money is turned into drugs or alcohol. The best way to combat the homeless issue is to get the mentally ill off the street and into institutions and yes that means against their will if neccessary. We need afordable housing and real help for those with severe addictions. For those that are just to lazy to work.....****'EM! There is no reason in my mind that any single able bodied person can't find some work to get themselves off the street and into a normal life.

In theory, I agree with you, Avro. In reality, Unfortunately, I don't have the time, influence or power to "get the mentally ill off the streets" while I'm running my errands. All the social issues you mentioned are, indeed, valid. No argument here. The problem I can help with, though, is the short term. A couple bucks here or there can make a huge difference to someone's day. If they spend it on drugs or booze, so what?? Not my place to judge. A gift is a gift ... if there are conditions attached it becomes a manipulation tool.

Since I actually take the time to speak to many of the homeless, I've learned that there are very, very few who are "too lazy to work". Perhaps you are unable to see how someone could end up on the street and not be able to break free of it, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Once you're on the street, it's a catch 22. Can't really get a job unless you have a place where you can shower, get a meal, tend to daily necessities. Can't really find a place to do those things without some income. Some folks can't even get social assistance because they have no address. It's just not as simple as you pointed out.

Hey ... I knew an Avro at another forum. You ever hang at the Roost?

 

[Outta here]

The problem I can help with, though, is the short term. A couple bucks here or there can make a huge difference to someone's day. If they spend it on drugs or booze, so what?? Not my place to judge. A gift is a gift ... if there are conditions attached it becomes a manipulation tool.

Couldn't agree more with that Cos. I know I can't effect the changes within the bigger picture that will enable these folks to live a life that treats them better. And I also know that when I hand a homeless person any amount of money, they will very likely spend it on a habit of some sort rather than food or a new pair of shoes. It's not my place to determine for them what their highest needs are. Nor would my refusal to donate under those conditions play out in any positive way for their situation. I know all I can do is provide a bandaid - another few hours of relief from whatever wretched reality they are confronted with on a daily basis. I too look for the broken dignity within these people - sometimes all I've got to give is a smile - an acknowledgement of their existence, a witness to their humanity.

This bears out something you said in another post. Why do we give knowing how our gift will be used? Because it makes us feel good, no? My paltry bits of help sometimes feel as if I'm offering a drop of water to a drought-ridden village. Too little, too late. Yet, it's what I can do. And it makes me feel good - probably much better than the person I gave to, so in the end, I've helped myself more than I've helped them. In that small act of giving, I quell my own conscience a little bit, which never forgets that through some stroke of good fortune, I have a roof on my head, food in my belly, and my most basic survival needs taken care of. At that point, how someone came to be in their circumstances becomes irrelevant to me. It is what it is right now, and I can help - a little bit - right now.

 

[Unforgiven]

Of course there are people who will take advantage. You want to lock up some carsalesmen or lawyers now? Some people are homeless because they have just screwed things up. Bit of bad luck and someone turning their back on them at just the wrong time and they are now a mess.

They need help. Not to be locked up but assistance from a social program to get them sorted with the basics and into work that they can do, that society as a whole needs attending to. There is no reason we shouldn't be maintaining them as it would work to our own benefit financialy. Fewer and shorter hospital stays. Less of a problem for policing. And while it's perfectly clear that from time to time they are going to get out of control, we just need to see that they don't get too out of line through monitoring, and as quickly as possible get them back to the routine of working and attending to the basics of taking care of themselves.

We get cleaned up streets. Less vandalism, lower petty crime, and higher property values. Plus less in taxes as more money is shifted from the reactive punitive system we have to a harm reduction system while retaining a much reduced penal system for the hardcore violent offenders.

The thought of someone getting something for nothing is a red herring. Hell people get something for nothing every day through corupt business practice, opportunity and plane dumb luck. To hedge on something that would clearly help the majority of people it involves is either ignorant or shortsighted and mean spirited.

 

[lone wolf]

When you figure OW allows $325 (or so) and ODSP, $436/monthly for shelter, that effectively puts a LOT of folks in cardboard boxes. No address - no job or social services. Panhandlers aren't all looking for booze and crack.

Wolf

 

[catman]

Mike Harris cut off funding for many mental health facilities in Ontario. Now people have to deal with them on the street.

One of the reason we pay taxes is for the government to protect us.

 

[lone wolf]

Hmm.... Isn't that why shopkeepers pay off street gangs?

Wolf

 

[tamarin]

One paper covering the Vancouver story today called the panhandler in question a "professional." I suppose that's another term for a career panhandler. One who considers it his calling, his trade. Who'd have thought it? And, if that's the case, who should support it?

 

[Kreskin]

Vancouver panhandling is out of control. You can't do anything downtown with being chased by panhandlers looking for drug or booze money.

 

[#juan]

I have an idea. Why don't we all pay a certain percentage of our income to the government and part of that money could be used to house and feed these people who are now making the streets unpleasant for everyone. Oh wait, we already do that. In that case,the government should make it illegal to beg on the streets,and they should be picking all these people up and getting them into a situation where they can earn their own living. Giving money to panhandlers doesn't help anything. It's not as if one more Loonie or one more five dollar bill is going to change anything.....Pay that money into a fund to help people get out of this condition. If we want panhandlers to continue, keep on paying them money to support their habits.

 

[Kreskin]

That's right #juan, 99% of them are drug addicts and alcoholics pushed onto the streets by their addictions. Every last nickel given to them goes to more crack or booze.

I had the "privilege" of driving once again through East Hastings last week. What a bloody nuthouse. There are so many screwed people down there it almost seems hopeless to try dealing with it.

The root problem is drug dealers. I suggest a life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years for anyone convicted of commercially selling or trafficking illegal drugs. Period. The problems they cause are too serious to be taken lightly.