Panhandlers

[Unforgiven]

One small clarification...drugs like heroin destroy the liver. Any drug that floats through the blood will be cleaned by the liver and these are considered toxic. There are other components that can be mixed in with drugs like non clean Xtasy and crystal meth with eat away at the brain.

These are don't believe are played up nor exaggerated. But they should be advertised far more then they are. That lovely feeling you get from the high has a price. Both physically and emotionally

I think most of the time the scare tactic is used and once someone finds that it is in fact a scare tactic they stop listening. This is what's happened to youth and the government regarding drugs. Too many lies have just taught people they can't trust what the government says about drugs at all.

So information that is vital concerning drugs gets left unsaid or at least no one listens. I think parents should be educated about drugs in an honest and meaningful way so that from an early age they can relate to their children the
various aspects of drug use and the pitfalls that await the unwary.

 

[Kreskin]

I gave my daughter a visual education. We drove through East Van after the football game. I showed her all the people strung out and living in the gutter. I told her that's where drugs get you. If a friend offers you drugs they aren't a friend.

 

[Impetus]

That's nice...reminds me of my dad driving past the mental hospital on Queen St. and telling us "that's where people who do "drugs" end up".

I don't know how old your daughter is, but I hope your drug education strategy was a little more granular than my dad's was. I was already thinking "which drugs, dad?" at age 14. It stunk of typical parental paranoia to me at the time and didn't sink in.

It's the age old strategy of creating this irrational fear of "drugs" like "terrorists" or "commies". The minute the kid finds one crack in the scare story, the whole message goes out the window.

What did sink in was when I started meeting people who were into various drugs and pot. I found it interesting that different personality types were into different stuff. The cerebral and artsy ones would go for the pot and LSD...the "mind-expanding" substances, while the more physical types would be into the speed, cocaine and more body-stonish stuff (eg MDA). Heroin was almost non-existent in my circles.

I gravitated of course towards the artsy crowd of course, and over time mixed with more of the intellectual bunch, managing to stay out of trouble while the speed/cocaine/MDA types went on to lives of crime supporting their habits. Some died sooner of overdoses, and some later of hep-C. Some are likely still in jail...

So my point here is that it's more important that a kid learns to choose the right friends as the best defense against "drugs". The "drugs" don't magically wave themselves in the kids' faces and say "try me", they are introduced by friends and friends of friends.

It is more likely than not that she will try pot at some point in her teens. If she does, and she doesn't experience the fast track to the lower east side you've predicted, there goes your whole story. Hopefully she'll learn that there are "drugs" and there are "DRUGS" and maybe drugs aren't for her.
If you've shown a good example, that you know the facts and made an educated choice not to do "drugs", chances are she'll do the same.

I'd suggest as soon as whe's old enough to do so, have her do a project on drugs and recreational substances (including alcohol) and offer her an incentive for completing it.

My daughter (18 yo) tells me stories about some of the (eeeww!) losers she knows from school and parties who get into the crystal meth and crack. I see she's hanging out with the other crowd and that makes me sleep better.

Muz

I gave my daughter a visual education. We drove through East Van after the football game. I showed her all the people strung out and living in the gutter. I told her that's where drugs get you. If a friend offers you drugs they aren't a friend.

 

[Curiosity]

What interesting perspectives from people on drugs - their use and misuse.

About young people being offered drugs - they should wonder why someone would ask them to 'change'. As if a change would make them a better person to their friend? As if masking troubled times, or denying they are real, would help them overcome those times?
Or make them disappear?

I've never got that.

People tied together in friendship either accept you warts and all, cold sober, standing in the onslaught of life's events, or they aren't your friend.

Young people have hell to go through unless they have the ability to slide through with no challenge - but some of those kings and queens we all envied when we were in our teens have problems later on with which they have no learning experience to deal with - trouble is brand new to them - whereas those who have had to learn pain and disappointment as a teenager - can handle life with a more realistic acceptance, knowing problems have solutions, and challenges can be met.

If teens learn they can mask the disappointments by turning to a soothing drug or even alcohol, they are delaying the inevitable and putting off the learning experience during a time when they can fail and it isn't as monumentous as it would be as an independent adult trying to make a living in our world - a world which often could care less if you are having a problem.

I have a niece who never was a teenager.....she was a drug addict at eleven.....and is still a drug addict. She cleaned up for two pregnancies, producing lovely healthy kids.... and gave them away ... denying herself motherhood of two absolutely stunning children who are blossoming in a loving home with family members. At fifteen she was drop-dead gorgeous, blessed with good intelligence, canny ability to make friendships and attract all sorts of interested people in her life. She put all this aside for a needle. Nothing in her life was as important as her needles.

She has never been a teen, planning school activities, sports, dances, parties, great friendships, falling in love with awkward fellas, not a prom ever in her life.... never a young adult happily planning a marriage and a family .... and is now a thirties' something prostitute...the only available living she can manage to pay for her fix. In her good months, she finds a guy will let her live with him until he tires of her. And it's another move, another guy, more fixes, and fog. She tells me she doesn't mind the moving out - as there isn't much to pack up that is hers.

I love her and I miss the child she was, the busy teenager she could have been, and the beautiful woman she had potential to be....and a lovely, lucky mother of two beautiful kids.

 

[Unforgiven]

Muz hit's the point here.

It's the age old strategy of creating this irrational fear of "drugs" like "terrorists" or "commies". The minute the kid finds one crack in the scare story, the whole message goes out the window.

Like drinking, it's left to the kid to figure it out with friends some evening out on their own. There is as much misconception about drugs as there is about sex and alcohol among youth. I hold that the best place for a kid to learn about all of this stuff is from trusted parents with the kids best interest at heart. Granted it's never going to be too common for kids and parents to do hard drugs, but a realistic and honest set of conversations and advice can go a long way when it's time for that kid to make a choice out on their own.

But more to the point, when it comes to pot and alcohol and for myself any experimentation with drugs I feel that I would want my kids to be safe first and foremost. If my kid is going to get drunk to the point of passing out while learning how much is too much, I want to be there to make sure they are ok and suffer only the hangover that teaches limits so well.

The same can be said of drugs. Having the influence upon your kid when they are finding out about the world around them to stop when it seems right to go is priceless. But it's not so easy to get there in a parent child relationship. Having that trust built up in the formative years over puberty and into the late teens when they really will get opportunities to try any and all things out there, will be the single most useful tool in protecting your kids from the dire pitfalls that make up the real world.

Most who have had too much to drink know it's a learning experience. You come to terms with the amount you can drink in an evening and how fast you can consume it. The arena in which this takes place can be under the supervision of your parents or possibly at some one's house who doesn't have the very best of intentions towards you. The same goes for drugs like pot in my opinion.

 

[Impetus]

What interesting perspectives from people on drugs - their use and misuse.

About young people being offered drugs - they should wonder why someone would ask them to 'change'. As if a change would make them a better person to their friend? As if masking troubled times, or denying they are real, would help them overcome those times?
Or make them disappear?

I've never got that.

I wonder if it's really asking them to change, or offering them an experience. Do they even know what the implications are at that moment?
I guess it depends upon the "stream" we're talking about. The ones who would use it as a crutch, or the ones who would use it as an enhancement? I really think this is where the differentiator is.

People tied together in friendship either accept you warts and all, cold sober, standing in the onslaught of life's events, or they aren't your friend.

Quite true! How many of us tried to put on a facade, or join in questionable activities (such as picking on a pariah) to fit in with the "in crowd"?

Young people have hell to go through unless they have the ability to slide through with no challenge - but some of those kings and queens we all envied when we were in our teens have problems later on with which they have no learning experience to deal with - trouble is brand new to them - whereas those who have had to learn pain and disappointment as a teenager - can handle life with a more realistic acceptance, knowing problems have solutions, and challenges can be met.

Bang on again! It's like the birds learning to fly thing. If you shelter them and coddle them they never let go of mom's apron. How many guys have mom do their laundry until they have a wife to do it?

If teens learn they can mask the disappointments by turning to a soothing drug or even alcohol, they are delaying the inevitable and putting off the learning experience during a time when they can fail and it isn't as monumentous as it would be as an independent adult trying to make a living in our world - a world which often could care less if you are having a problem.

The "crutch" usage pattern. Part of drug education should deal with the motivational aspects of usage.
How to recognize them in yourself and others.
The flip side of that coin is whether drugs (prescription or otherwise) are a legitimate coping aid. If it is considered acceptable to pump the kid full of Paxil or similar to help cope with their angst, why not pot if it achieves the desired result? [/quote]

I have a niece who never was a teenager.....she was a drug addict at eleven.....and is still a drug addict. She cleaned up for two pregnancies, producing lovely healthy kids.... and gave them away ... denying herself motherhood of two absolutely stunning children who are blossoming in a loving home with family members. At fifteen she was drop-dead gorgeous, blessed with good intelligence, canny ability to make friendships and attract all sorts of interested people in her life. She put all this aside for a needle. Nothing in her life was as important as her needles.

She has never been a teen, planning school activities, sports, dances, parties, great friendships, falling in love with awkward fellas, not a prom ever in her life.... never a young adult happily planning a marriage and a family .... and is now a thirties' something prostitute...the only available living she can manage to pay for her fix. In her good months, she finds a guy will let her live with him until he tires of her. And it's another move, another guy, more fixes, and fog. She tells me she doesn't mind the moving out - as there isn't much to pack up that is hers.

I love her and I miss the child she was, the busy teenager she could have been, and the beautiful woman she had potential to be....and a lovely, lucky mother of two beautiful kids.

What a tragedy! Such a waste of potential...
Was there any sign of addictive personality in her parents?

Muz

 

[Curiosity]

Impetus

Thanks for your input and your questions. I missed an important point which you have queried....
She and her best girlfriend got into daddy's desk drawer where he kept samples (girlfriend's daddy was a doctor)...and took some that day. They were both sick but they felt so good, they were drawn to the idea that all the pills would make them feel good.... they were hooked within a month. The parents didn't know for a while because the girls were limited in their intake. By the time a year had passed, they could not do without and were stealing from dad's office as well as his home desk....

She was in and out of rehab most of her teen years but her brain was useless without the drugs.

He has never acknowledged responsibility for his daughter's death. We feel my niece was lucky 'living'....if that is a rational comparision. Some days I don't feel she was lucky at all. She hasn't had a life to enjoy.

 

[Impetus]

Wow! Glad I only found my dad's skin books in his drawer!;-)
That's a fact of life. Kids are curious and will certainly go through your drawers.

At that age we imprint many of our character traits that follow us through life.

So sad a story Curio...

Muz

Impetus

Thanks for your input and your questions. I missed an important point which you have queried....
She and her best girlfriend got into daddy's desk drawer where he kept samples (girlfriend's daddy was a doctor)...and took some that day. They were both sick but they felt so good, they were drawn to the idea that all the pills would make them feel good.... they were hooked within a month. The parents didn't know for a while because the girls were limited in their intake. By the time a year had passed, they could not do without and were stealing from dad's office as well as his home desk....

She was in and out of rehab most of her teen years but her brain was useless without the drugs.

He has never acknowledged responsibility for his daughter's death. We feel my niece was lucky 'living'....if that is a rational comparision. Some days I don't feel she was lucky at all. She hasn't had a life to enjoy.

 

[Curiosity]

Impetus

The discovery was certainly a freak accident because the doctor and his family had two other children who had never bothered with his desk drawers. I cycle in and out of blaming him - he certainly was careless but it was unintentional and I'm far from perfect to sit in judgment. He lost his child so I back off the anger - it is wasted.

My sister said once in a sad voice: "Why couldn't it have been laxatives? They look like chocolate"...

I often think about things like that too - why bad stuff happens - to innocents.

 

[Twila]

I've been as honest as possible with my daughter about drugs. With her Dad being a heroin addict and with little prospect of ever being a functioning member of society she seen first hand the destruction of family life, health, and happiness at the hands of addiction.

It would be irresponsible of me as a parent to sugar coat it, lie about it, or to say nothing and hope she never has to make a decision about whether to use or not.
To me to choose an "alternative" to what I have is showing a lack of love and respect for my daughter. If I were to have chosen a different option I'd be telling her right off that I don't believe in her, that I don't love her enough to tell the truth. What kind of start to life is that?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I gave my daughter a visual education. We drove through East Van after the football game. I showed her all the people strung out and living in the gutter. I told her that's where drugs get you. If a friend offers you drugs they aren't a friend.

wish me dad was you...no don't scared off ole boy...lol...d'avril is on vacation...lol....

Look it's all about being true to form as a father.What you are as a human being and trying to pass on that sort of heritage to your children .Morals ethics right living and lively hood....
You get some drug user who has kids and they think it's cool for their kids to do it in a proper setting....It's not right. Plain and simple.
Crippling in fact...Our society is filled with this sort of thing....
And some long diatribe from me is not going to help...if you don't know the difference you won't get it anyway.....
As far as showing your kid the end of the end....good show ole boy...at least she knows with a straight head whats expected of her to be like dear ole dad.You don't want a child going through life smoking weed and ending up some giggly ha ha flotsam 24/7 , and someone is going challenge that.....phhhhht!

chronic drug users and their lame attempts to paint this lyfestyle as a good thing.....intellectual....give me a break....all the intellectualls these days are far away from drugs...the few who expiermented with it back in the 50's and 60's have long gone the way of the peppermint tea crowd.....

 

[Twila]

You get some drug user who has kids and they think it's cool for their kids to do it in a proper setting....It's not right. Plain and simple.

Which "drugs" are you talking about? Would alcohol be included? soft drugs or just hard drugs?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Which "drugs" are you talking about? Would alcohol be included? soft drugs or just hard drugs?

Alcohol is portrayed as life at it's best on telly comercials.....
one must instill that only total losers let them self get drunk to the the point of blacking out and becoming an arzhole. Alcohol is so part and parcel to world culture.
The thing is you can have a glass or 2 of wine every day and it's a huge benefit...My mum turned 84 yesterday and she has almost a whole wine glass of red chileian wine every day....never more..
If your child is alcoholic prone well if you love them you are about to have a lifetime maybe of heart ache....

Weed ..if you are a user and it's known to your kids do you really want to potray it as something healthy...something one must learn....seriously....would it not be better to allow your kid to see that it is some sort of crutch for you if you are smoking it more than once and awhile....like for me IMHO if you gotta smoke this stuff regulary you have a substance abuse problem...if you need to enter an altered state for what ever reason on a regular basis you have a problem.....And you owe it to your child that they should know you have one.....listen to me and don't be like me should be strongly explained....of course if your child does become like you ..well you can take some of the blame.....


but these people that actually are portraying weed as a good thing online now everywhere are stoned everyday.....they may lie to you about it...but if you meet them offline ..i bet every damn time they will be high or about to get high....

As for heroin and coke meth ....If you are feeding this to your kids you need to be jailed.......

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

An add on...do we really need to have our kids smoke weed....do we really need to have them drink....
I mean if weed was legal i could not go the same route as alcohol, cause if you smoke it yer going to get high everytime unless your Bill Clinton.
So the aproach would be , this is part and parcel to society....if this stuff becomes something you are thinking about all the time you are in trouble...plain and simple..it's not a good life to be lived....giggly ha ha is fine now and then but as a focal point...come now.....

 

[Unforgiven]

I've been as honest as possible with my daughter about drugs. With her Dad being a heroin addict and with little prospect of ever being a functioning member of society she seen first hand the destruction of family life, health, and happiness at the hands of addiction.

It would be irresponsible of me as a parent to sugar coat it, lie about it, or to say nothing and hope she never has to make a decision about whether to use or not.
To me to choose an "alternative" to what I have is showing a lack of love and respect for my daughter. If I were to have chosen a different option I'd be telling her right off that I don't believe in her, that I don't love her enough to tell the truth. What kind of start to life is that?

As a parent, and parents know this, you can choose who your kids get their information from. While there are plenty of people with an opinion about religion for example, you may want to teach your kids about it yourself or have them talk regularly to a spiritual leader at you Church or what have you. As opposed to someone who has an agenda and wants to lead your teenager astray.

Drugs can be addressed in a similar manner. While it's a fact that they will encounter it at some point, having the correct knowledge of and about it will help them make the right choice when they are exposed to it, and part of that is explaining the laws to them as well.

It's just plain stupid to just ignore that they are there and pretend that kids in general will never come in contact with drugs or alcohol until they are the age of majority. A major part of the problem with drugs stems from ignorant kids being roped into taking hard drugs without the understanding of what they are getting into. That information, given from someone they trust, which should be their parents, or someone their parents have found that can answer the tough questions.

I've always felt that when kids come to start asking questions about it, it's time to give them the honest answers. Not just lie and shirk the responsibility until they are old enough to get it themselves and start blaming society.

 

[Twila]

Weed ..if you are a user and it's known to your kids do you really want to potray it as something healthy...something one must learn....seriously....would it not be better to allow your kid to see that it is some sort of crutch for you if you are smoking it more than once and awhile....like for me IMHO if you gotta smoke this stuff regulary you have a substance abuse problem...if you need to enter an altered state for what ever reason on a regular basis you have a problem.....And you owe it to your child that they should know you have one.....listen to me and don't be like me should be strongly explained....of course if your child does become like you ..well you can take some of the blame.....

k, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest.....addiction is bad. We all agree?

How come cigarette addiction is acceptable? It's bad for you physically. Low income earners will sacrifice food, shelter, clothing, and utilities to make sure they have smokes. It's not only bad for the smoker but bad for those around them. Yet, it's viewed as an acceptable addiction. Where is the difference in your views that makes this happen?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

k, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest.....addiction is bad. We all agree?

How come cigarette addiction is acceptable? It's bad for you physically. Low income earners will sacrifice food, shelter, clothing, and utilities to make sure they have smokes. It's not only bad for the smoker but bad for those around them. Yet, it's viewed as an acceptable addiction. Where is the difference in your views that makes this happen?

ok it's obvious where i come from...i'm not some drug prude..i realize it is part of our culture now....specially weed..but maybe not ..there are still a heck of lot more non tokers than tokers....anyway...i've said it all .....
ciggies???? acceptable???? i quit when i was 37..magic year for me....
even when i smoked 2 pack a day when people came over i went outside my own home to smoke....way back when no one was doing it...my choice.....

I never accepted my ciggie addiction, or any of my addictions....it's some wierd throw back to the walter raliegh days and those that followed...hell in the 20's everyone smoked and they thought it only was bad for your wind.....

today it's obvious it's on the way out....go to paris and see different8O....lol

i dunno...Peter Gabriel won't talk to you if you even smell of it....

If you want it to be acceptable it's pretty damn easy seeing it is sold right where ya buy yer candy and gum...but i dunno...sort of troll food wouldn't you say......useing the word troll before there was an internet...lol

 

[Twila]

I quit 2 yrs ago...I can relate to Peter Gabriel not wanting to talk with people who smell of it. It's foul!