Omnibus: Conservative Leadership Race

[Nick Danger]

We require energy to survive in the frozen north . Until such time that we have alternative energy sources we will need carbon based power . Solar and wind are not efficient to power our countries needs .

It's not an "all or nothing" choice though, sure we will need to burn fossil fuels for years to come, just not at the rate we are now. The areas of highest use are in our metropolitan areas, and that's where people have the most alternatives. Consider the cost of gasoline and parking right now, how many will turn to mass transit in the next while simply because it's cheaper? Constantly pointing to rural dwellers as justification for everyone to keep using the stuff at the present rate is a red herring, rural use is not the biggest use.

Plus, as it's already been pointed out, bringing back the Keystone XL and/or the Energy East pipelines is not something that can be done in the short term, and we're not exactly sure that the need to replace lost Russian crude is going to be a long term issue.

 

[pgs]

It's not an "all or nothing" choice though, sure we will need to burn fossil fuels for years to come, just not at the rate we are now. The areas of highest use are in our metropolitan areas, and that's where people have the most alternatives. Consider the cost of gasoline and parking right now, how many will turn to mass transit in the next while simply because it's cheaper? Constantly pointing to rural dwellers as justification for everyone to keep using the stuff at the present rate is a red herring, rural use is not the biggest use.

Plus, as it's already been pointed out, bringing back the Keystone XL and/or the Energy East pipelines is not something that can be done in the short term, and we're not exactly sure that the need to replace lost Russian crude is going to be a long term issue.

We do not have the infrastructure to support wholesale use of EV’s at present , nor do we have the electrical capacity . Shall we bring more nuclear reactors online ?

 

[pgs]

At present we have gas stations on practically every corner , it takes approximately 5 minutes to fuel a vehicle with 600 or so kilometres of range . How long does it take to charge a vehicle to allow 600 kilometres range ? How many charging stations will be needed and where will they be located . You cannot put the cart before the horse .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

At present we have gas stations on practically every corner , it takes approximately 5 minutes to fuel a vehicle with 600 or so kilometres of range . How long does it take to charge a vehicle to allow 600 kilometres range ? How many charging stations will be needed and where will they be located . You cannot put the cart before the horse .

If you have refueling station on practically every corner, one has difficulty seeing why 600 kilometres of range is an essential criterion.

I'd also note that North America had a robust automobile system long before there was a gas station on every corner.

 

[petros]

Hmm, converting a welding rig to mobile charging could be a good income stream.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

If you have refueling station on practically every corner, one has difficulty seeing why 600 kilometres of range is an essential criterion.

I'd also note that North America had a robust automobile system long before there was a gas station on every corner.

600 kms mean that that that person is only gassing up his vehicle every week or so. If you could only go 200km you would need to refuel every 2 days. Therefore, assuming equivalent driving, you would need to factor in more charging stations than a one for one equivalent to gas stations assuming you could do a charge in the equivalent 5 minutes.

600km also allows for long distance travel.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

600 kms mean that that that person is only gassing up his vehicle every week or so. If you could only go 200km you would need to refuel every 2 days. Therefore, assuming equivalent driving, you would need to factor in more charging stations than a one for one equivalent to gas stations assuming you could do a charge in the equivalent 5 minutes.

600km also allows for long distance travel.

Many e-vehicle dealers are now offering free lifetime charging as part of the purchase price. Does that change the equation?

 

[Nick Danger]

We do not have the infrastructure to support wholesale use of EV’s at present , nor do we have the electrical capacity . Shall we bring more nuclear reactors online ?

How many in larger cities could switch to mass transit or car-pooling at the cost of nothing more than a little convenience ? How many anywhere benefit from getting organized a little better and cut the number of shopping trips in half ? There's a lot of room to use less between where we are now and not using the stuff at all.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Many e-vehicle dealers are now offering free lifetime charging as part of the purchase price. Does that change the equation?

At the dealership? Where are the charging stations? How many will be available when needed (worst I ever had to wait was about 10 min at a gas station)? How long will I need to wait for charge to complete?

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

How many in larger cities could switch to mass transit or car-pooling at the cost of nothing more than a little convenience ? How many anywhere benefit from getting organized a little better and cut the number of shopping trips in half ? There's a lot of room to use less between where we are now and not using the stuff at all.

Mass transit in Toronto sucks. If they made it not suck so much, maybe people would be more encouraged to use it.

 

[Nick Danger]

Mass transit in Toronto sucks. If they made it not suck so much, maybe people would be more encouraged to use it.

Same with mid-size towns, say less than 100K, there aren't enough routes. Increased ridership goes a long way to improving that. Vancouver has excellent transit, my son lived there for years and only insured his car when it was time for a road trip. Still, when you drive down there and look around on the roads, one person - one vehicle is the norm.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

At the dealership? Where are the charging stations? How many will be available when needed (worst I ever had to wait was about 10 min at a gas station)? How long will I need to wait for charge to complete?

All of these items are still developing. E-vehicles are, at minimum, a significant part of the future, and may end up doing to IC what IC did to steam-powered vehicles. I'm still on IC, and probably will be for another six years or so (I generally buy a new car every 10 years, current one is 6 years old). At that point, given reasonable development of the items you noted, I expect my next car will be electric.

At this point, my advice to anybody interested would be "Look at your driving needs and habits. Compare them to what's on offer in e-vehicles. Which is a better fit for you? As you make this calculation, look at the fact that e-vehicles seem to have 'won the race' for the next generation (over such technologies as fuel cells, LNG, hydrogen, compressed-air, &c.). Consider, for example, that if you just drive around town, but make 2-3 long trips per year, buying an e-car and renting cars for the long trips. Just as I would hope you wouldn't buy a dual-rear monster pickup because you need that kind of capacity once a year."

If you're feeling "pressured" to buy an e-car, toughen up. You're pressured all the time by advertising, people's opinions, what have you. Carefully and completely assess your needs and make a smart decision.

My central point is that e-vehicles are under development, and that development is likely to happen a lot faster than the slow buildout of the IC economy 1910-2015. There is nothing inherent in the value of a 600-km range or gas pumps on every corner. It may serve you to change your habits. Life's like that.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

All of these items are still developing. E-vehicles are, at minimum, a significant part of the future, and may end up doing to IC what IC did to steam-powered vehicles. I'm still on IC, and probably will be for another six years or so (I generally buy a new car every 10 years, current one is 6 years old). At that point, given reasonable development of the items you noted, I expect my next car will be electric.

At this point, my advice to anybody interested would be "Look at your driving needs and habits. Compare them to what's on offer in e-vehicles. Which is a better fit for you? As you make this calculation, look at the fact that e-vehicles seem to have 'won the race' for the next generation (over such technologies as fuel cells, LNG, hydrogen, compressed-air, &c.). Consider, for example, that if you just drive around town, but make 2-3 long trips per year, buying an e-car and renting cars for the long trips. Just as I would hope you wouldn't buy a dual-rear monster pickup because you need that kind of capacity once a year."

If you're feeling "pressured" to buy an e-car, toughen up. You're pressured all the time by advertising, people's opinions, what have you. Carefully and completely assess your needs and make a smart decision.

Right now for me, it doesn't make sense. I have family a fair distance away which I visit regularly. I park in an underground garage with no power outlets. But I have a government making grand statements about all vehicles being electric by 2025 or 2030. I suspect this is all hot air but still that timeline is unrealistic. I think e-vehicles are good right now for owners of single dwelling homes in an urban centres as a second vehicle for around town driving. Eventually they will develop to be more inclusive. But until they do, the government shouldn't be trying to force electric vehicles on all of us.

 

[Nick Danger]

My central point is that e-vehicles are under development, and that development is likely to happen a lot faster than the slow buildout of the IC economy 1910-2015.

And they're still a bit of a novelty item, cashing in on some sense of environmental responsibility. As gasoloine gets more and more expensive, EVs will gain popularity and competition between producers will kick in, and they will become more affordable.

One aspect that gets a lot of airtime is the increased load on electrical grids in our towns and cities.

 

[petros]

Right now for me, it doesn't make sense. I have family a fair distance away which I visit regularly. I park in an underground garage with no power outlets. But I have a government making grand statements about all vehicles being electric by 2025 or 2030. I suspect this is all hot air but still that timeline is unrealistic. I think e-vehicles are good right now for owners of single dwelling homes in an urban centres as a second vehicle for around town driving. Eventually they will develop to be more inclusive. But until they do, the government shouldn't be trying to force electric vehicles on all of us.

Plug-in Halfbreeds will be the transitional platform.

 

[harrylee]

Plug-in Halfbreeds will be the transitional platform.

And will likely be like that for quite a while......They need to work on infrastructure (charging stations)....Need to make the batteries last longer. Need to make disposal of batteries safer. Need to make manufacturing of these batteries safer.....So many things. The cart is before the horse right now.

 

[pgs]

How many in larger cities could switch to mass transit or car-pooling at the cost of nothing more than a little convenience ? How many anywhere benefit from getting organized a little better and cut the number of shopping trips in half ? There's a lot of room to use less between where we are now and not using the stuff at all.

We don’t like riding transit and car pooling for the most part . The convenience of the private automobile is what makes them so desirable .
How does one commute from South Burnaby to work in Gloucester when there is no bus service to that areas light manufacturing center ? When I was a boy most families owned one vehicle only , but in the last 50 years that has grown to three or more at present , look at the parking lot at your local high school , maybe ten kids at most had their own car in my graduating class , now the lots are full . The population as a whole are not going to change habits that easily especially to switch to public transit . Our whole infrastructure is built around the convenience of mobility which the automobile provides .

 

[pgs]

Same with mid-size towns, say less than 100K, there aren't enough routes. Increased ridership goes a long way to improving that. Vancouver has excellent transit, my son lived there for years and only insured his car when it was time for a road trip. Still, when you drive down there and look around on the roads, one person - one vehicle is the norm.

Of course it is the norm , I need my vehicle for work and it does not always happen on bus routes .
But yes if one works and lives in the city core they can and do easily survive without a car , but that only works in certain areas .
How about grocery shopping for an average family of four , how many bags of groceries can one individual carry on a bus , and what about the walk home from the stop ? Getting people out of their cars sounds great but not many will accept that .

 

[pgs]

All of these items are still developing. E-vehicles are, at minimum, a significant part of the future, and may end up doing to IC what IC did to steam-powered vehicles. I'm still on IC, and probably will be for another six years or so (I generally buy a new car every 10 years, current one is 6 years old). At that point, given reasonable development of the items you noted, I expect my next car will be electric.

At this point, my advice to anybody interested would be "Look at your driving needs and habits. Compare them to what's on offer in e-vehicles. Which is a better fit for you? As you make this calculation, look at the fact that e-vehicles seem to have 'won the race' for the next generation (over such technologies as fuel cells, LNG, hydrogen, compressed-air, &c.). Consider, for example, that if you just drive around town, but make 2-3 long trips per year, buying an e-car and renting cars for the long trips. Just as I would hope you wouldn't buy a dual-rear monster pickup because you need that kind of capacity once a year."

If you're feeling "pressured" to buy an e-car, toughen up. You're pressured all the time by advertising, people's opinions, what have you. Carefully and completely assess your needs and make a smart decision.

My central point is that e-vehicles are under development, and that development is likely to happen a lot faster than the slow buildout of the IC economy 1910-2015. There is nothing inherent in the value of a 600-km range or gas pumps on every corner. It may serve you to change your habits. Life's like that.

Yes EV’s are growing more popular and make perfect sense for a commuter , and the infrastructure surrounding them will improve as will the technology behind them , as that occurs more and more will be sold . Expecting that to happen overnight is wishful thinking at best .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

And they're still a bit of a novelty item, cashing in on some sense of environmental responsibility. As gasoloine gets more and more expensive, EVs will gain popularity and competition between producers will kick in, and they will become more affordable.

One aspect that gets a lot of airtime is the increased load on electrical grids in our towns and cities.

Which will require significant increases in electrical generation and transmission capacity. Which is an opportunity to design in various environmentally-friendly specs and features, much easier than retrofitting. Again, the system we have currently was not laid down in the wayback. It is constantly developing. The smart thing to do is to weigh the costs vs. the desired outcomes and stay flexible. The wholesale rejection of e-vehicles I see from many posters smacks of Luddism. And it's frankly bizarre that it's occurring on the internet. If we're going to go full-on "What was good enough for my Daddy is good enough for me!," shouldn't we be airing these concerns in letters to the editor or to one's MP, or bellyaching in a bar or a church social?