Obama - What is your opinion so far on his Presidency

[mentalfloss]

So, your rationale is that society should be able to confiscate property from anyone who is deemed to have more than they need.

You have two cars? Don't need that, we'll take one.
How big is your house? Extra bedrooms? You don't need that, we'll move a welfare family in, you should be happy to give it away.

How many shoes do you have? More than one pair? Too bad, you can only wear one pair at a time, we'll take the extras.

Your whole justification is that society should be able to take other people's property/wealth because someone determines that they don't need it all, and they should be happy to give it away.

Which means that, in essence, your property is only yours as long as society decides that you don't have 'too much'.

Well of course 'need' is subjective and in the case that I'm proposing, I should reiterate that I wouldn't actually be taking away so much to relegate them only to what they need. I think that is more Peter Singer's case than mine. In my case, the rich would still have more than enough to qualify as rich and happy.

Also, I never said that their property would be confiscated. It's a slippery slope to say that I would take away someone's car or house or shoes or whatever. I think that if you make over $100,000 annually (Net income of course), you more than likely have enough to pay for a wonderful house, cars, and children - and still be able to give 20% of that to those who would in fact actually 'need' it.

I think there is a pretty firm argument to show that happiness remains constant at some level of income, and anything greater would not have any significant level of impact on that person's satisfaction. By comparison, there are obviously those people who are legitimately suffering and why not help those people to be happy as well, if it doesn't detract from your happiness right?

Do you think the someone in that position - the 'rich' person - would be really suffering in any way?

 

[JLM]

Well of course 'need' is subjective and in the case that I'm proposing, I should reiterate that I wouldn't actually be taking away so much to relegate them only to what they need. I think that is more Peter Singer's case than mine. In my case, the rich would still have more than enough to qualify as rich and happy.

Also, I never said that their property would be confiscated. It's a slippery slope to say that I would take away someone's car or house or shoes or whatever. I think that if you make over $100,000 annually (Net income of course), you more than likely have enough to pay for a wonderful house, cars, and children - and still be able to give 20% of that to those who would in fact actually 'need' it.

Do you think the someone in that position would be really suffering in any way?

Since when is it appropriate for someone to decide what someone else needs and what business is it to them anyway? If YOU have sh*t you don't need by all means give it away, but otherwise you should MYOB.

 

[captain morgan]

Do you think the someone in that position would be really suffering in any way?

Exactly who are you to make that determination?

By the way, you still haven't answered the question of how does one define "wealth".

 

[mentalfloss]

Exactly who are you to make that determination?

By the way, you still haven't answered the question of how does one define "wealth".

I'm me. I like thinking about things, and I would say having that much constitutes as excessive. I admit, I am not bringing in any credible resource here so relax guys, it's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree!

I would consider $60,000 annual net income as wealthy. What would you consider the bottom line for wealthy?

 

[Avro]

Volunteering it is one thing... What is being proposed here is that it is taken.

Guys like you and Avro will never understand that.

I understand it perfectly Captain.

The only way for you and others to argue this point is to take it to extremes.

I paid $153,000 in income tax in 2009...guess what....I'm still wealthy.

 

[JLM]

I'm me. I like thinking about things, and I would say having that much constitutes as excessive. I admit, I am not bringing in any credible resource here so relax guys, it's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree!

I would consider $60,000 annual net income as wealthy. What would you consider the bottom line for wealthy?

You are showing ignorance. For a single person retired in Ymir in a house that is paid for, that figure may indeed be considered as wealth. For a person with 8 kids renting a house in Vancouver making that figure, he'd be making weekly trips to the food bank. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Avro]

You are showing ignorance. For a single person retired in Ymir in a house that is paid for, that figure may indeed be considered as wealth. For a person with 8 kids renting a house in Vancouver making that figure, he'd be making weekly trips to the food bank. :lol::lol::lol:

I agree, wealth can be measured in many ways.

 

[mentalfloss]

You are showing ignorance. For a single person retired in Ymir in a house that is paid for, that figure may indeed be considered as wealth. For a person with 8 kids renting a house in Vancouver making that figure, he'd be making weekly trips to the food bank. :lol::lol::lol:

Okay, so Octomom may have a tough time with this, but she asked for it. Spitting out a whole litter of dumplings brings a lot of responsibility. In America we reward these people with reality tv shows, but they should know finances will be very thin after pooping out their cracker spawn.

But right now, even the every day dad or mom with two kids is having a really hard time. And these people constitute the vast majority of Americans.

 

[Tonington]

Some are able/willing to accumulate it and others aren't.

Yep, and having a progressive tax rate hasn't stopped that at all. Having tax policy that at least stops the growth in the gap between poor and rich from growing won't stop anyone from pursuing wealth either.

 

[Goober]

You are showing ignorance. For a single person retired in Ymir in a house that is paid for, that figure may indeed be considered as wealth. For a person with 8 kids renting a house in Vancouver making that figure, he'd be making weekly trips to the food bank. :lol::lol::lol:

Then he should have watched a little TV and kept his zipper zipped.

Also the gap between low income and the percentage that control the most wealth keeps getting wider.

 

[ironsides]

I'm me. I like thinking about things, and I would say having that much constitutes as excessive. I admit, I am not bringing in any credible resource here so relax guys, it's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree!

I would consider $60,000 annual net income as wealthy. What would you consider the bottom line for wealthy?

One can barely get by with a income of $60,000. To live comfortably and support a family a person has to make in excess of $130,000. Anything less and it becomes harder to survive. Unfortunately governments don't recognize those figures. Reality does.

 

[Tonington]

One can barely get by with a income of $60,000. To live comfortably and support a family a person has to make in excess of $130,000. Anything less and it becomes harder to survive. Unfortunately governments don't recognize those figures. Reality does.

That number makes sense if you're living in Manhattan. If you live in Larchwood, Iowa, then $60,000 is quite comfortable indeed.

 

[JLM]

One can barely get by with a income of $60,000. To live comfortably and support a family a person has to make in excess of $130,000. Anything less and it becomes harder to survive. Unfortunately governments don't recognize those figures. Reality does.

Whoa, hang on. While $60 grand in this day and age is no fortune, I would say (with exception of a few very large cities) families can get by quite comfortably on about $80 grand if the family sticks to the necessities and are careful shoppers, buy in bulk and large quantities and watch for sales. I do most of the grocery shopping and it boggles my mind the stuff I see going past the cash register, in many cases 30-40% of what's being bought is processed foods and junk foods. In most cases it's not how much you earn, it's how you manage it.

That number makes sense if you're living in Manhattan. If you live in Larchwood, Iowa, then $60,000 is quite comfortable indeed.

Wow that's twice today you've been sensible. Things are looking up. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[ironsides]

That number makes sense if you're living in Manhattan. If you live in Larchwood, Iowa, then $60,000 is quite comfortable indeed.

I am referring to here in Florida, supposedly a cheap state. To many young families are having problems with $60,000. Decent paying jobs are also in short supply.

Manhattan Apartment Prices Hit Record High.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/nyregion/02prices.html

 

[Goober]

Whoa, hang on. While $60 grand in this day and age is no fortune, I would say (with exception of a few very large cities) families can get by quite comfortably on about $80 grand if the family sticks to the necessities and are careful shoppers, buy in bulk and large quantities and watch for sales. I do most of the grocery shopping and it boggles my mind the stuff I see going past the cash register, in many cases 30-40% of what's being bought is processed foods and junk foods. In most cases it's not how much you earn, it's how you manage it.



Wow that's twice today you've been sensible. Things are looking up. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Your point on prepared meals - Highest price margins for grocery store - A year or so ago it broke the 50 % level for Canada - My wife and i both work - Rarely have a processed meal - When we do it is normally a freshly prepared pizza at Sobeys - price and quality is good - We cook ahead - To make meals simple and easy -

Todays gen has been born and raised on gotta have it quick and easy - many could not boil water if their life depended upon it - My daughter after many years is coming to me to learn how to cook.

And yes i like everyone does in a grocery store see what the other is buying

60 K - In Edmonton for example they started using certain areas that were for schools etc and it was directed at teachers, nurses etc to give them a start -

Many do not know how to save or wait. We - My wife and i do - My daughter has learned that and they mostly follow it - Had windows upgraded - pay over 18 month and it was also the best price - so i see they are also learning. 2 kids makes you learn

Next - A fellow works for me and makes approx 45-50 k working 2 jobs 7 days a week - He also sends money to Kenya to support his mother and sister and is saving money so they can go to Egypt as the waiting list is shorter for refugees - he would not take any Govt subsidies as he has to prove he can support then when and if approved for Canada.

Reason they are moving - Simple - Death threats as his wife married him without her father permission - A cousin of his was murdered for this.

Just a few thoughts for people to consider.

Now my wife and I are fairly comfortable - income in low 6 figures and that only happened in the last few years- after 19 years in Feb we are finally able to take a nice and highly pampered vacation. Expensive - But as i told my wife who did every type of job from cleaning hotel rooms to clerical - This is for her and all she went thru with me in the Army, overseas for years in Bosnia ans she damn well deserves to be pampered.


And yes - she is the thrifty one -

 

[ironsides]

Whoa, hang on. While $60 grand in this day and age is no fortune, I would say (with exception of a few very large cities) families can get by quite comfortably on about $80 grand if the family sticks to the necessities and are careful shoppers, buy in bulk and large quantities and watch for sales. I do most of the grocery shopping and it boggles my mind the stuff I see going past the cash register, in many cases 30-40% of what's being bought is processed foods and junk foods. In most cases it's not how much you earn, it's how you manage it.



Wow that's twice today you've been sensible. Things are looking up. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

I was referring to living comfortably getting pretty much anything you want, Making $60,000 they will have to keep on a strict budget, people make do with even less.

 

[captain morgan]

Yep, and having a progressive tax rate hasn't stopped that at all. Having tax policy that at least stops the growth in the gap between poor and rich from growing won't stop anyone from pursuing wealth either.

A tax policy that "stops" the growth of the gap, eh?

Well, that policy will stop the gap from widening by shrinking the upper average to meet the middle/lower average. Your policy will drive money out of the country.

Any idea what will happen to the myriad of social services and the average quality of life of everyone in the country if this happened (on a large scale)?

I was referring to living comfortably getting pretty much anything you want, Making $60,000 they will have to keep on a strict budget, people make do with even less.

Here's an idea of the taxes in the different Canadian provinces.
Canadian Income Tax Calculator 2009

It's very basicand doesn't factor-in many components, but it gives you an idea.

The bad news, a 60K income wil leave approx 45-48K... Factor in a mortgage, property taxes, a car, gas, insurance and utilities and there ain't a ton left for food, clothes or coincidentals.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'll just chime in quickly with my anecdotal experience here and just want to say that my wife and I are managing.. well.. just managing with a house and two cars (both paid for) and our individual gross incomes are well below the 60k mark.

For now, we have the luxury of not having any kids. But we get by because we continue to craft our own set of income statements as thoroughly conservative as possible. I think budgeting properly alone can save people a good deal of money.

 

[YukonJack]

A typical Democrat and avid Obama supporter walked into the local welfare office to pick up his check.

He marched straight up to the counter and said, "Hi. You know....,
I just HATE drawing welfare. I'd really rather have a job."

The social worker behind the counter said, "Your timing is excellent.
We just got a job opening from a very wealthy old man who wants a Chauffeur and bodyguard for his beautiful daughter. You'll have to drive around in his 2011 Mercedes-Benz CL, and he will supply all of your clothes.

"Because of the long hours, meals will be provided. You'll also be
expected to escort the daughter on her overseas holiday trips.
This is rather awkward to say but you will also have as part of
your job assignment to satisfy her sexual urges as the daughter is
in her mid-20's and has a rather strong sex drive."

The guy, just plain wide-eyed, said, "You're bull****tin' me!"

The social worker said,
"Yeah, well ... You started it!

 

[Goober]

I'll just chime in quickly with my anecdotal experience here and just want to say that my wife and I are managing.. well.. just managing with a house and two cars (both paid for) and our individual gross incomes are well below the 60k mark.

For now, we have the luxury of not having any kids. But we get by because we continue to craft our own set of income statements as thoroughly conservative as possible. I think budgeting properly alone can save people a good deal of money.

Well you have a good start with the house and cars paid for.

A typical Democrat and avid Obama supporter walked into the local welfare office to pick up his check.

He marched straight up to the counter and said, "Hi. You know....,
I just HATE drawing welfare. I'd really rather have a job."

The social worker behind the counter said, "Your timing is excellent.
We just got a job opening from a very wealthy old man who wants a Chauffeur and bodyguard for his beautiful daughter. You'll have to drive around in his 2011 Mercedes-Benz CL, and he will supply all of your clothes.

"Because of the long hours, meals will be provided. You'll also be
expected to escort the daughter on her overseas holiday trips.
This is rather awkward to say but you will also have as part of
your job assignment to satisfy her sexual urges as the daughter is
in her mid-20's and has a rather strong sex drive."

The guy, just plain wide-eyed, said, "You're bull****tin' me!"

The social worker said,
"Yeah, well ... You started it!

Difference Between Republicans and Democrats A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.
The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and gave the homeless person fifty dollars.
Now you understand the difference between Republicans and Democrats