Obama Health care Reform

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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We don't have insurance companies, insurance brokers or insurance adjusters JLM, I don't know where you got that. We have eliminated the middlemen, it is only the doctors and the government.

And if you think that government should get out of health care and that we should switch to American type of system, with insurance companies, brokers and adjusters, you are in a hopeless minority there, most Canadians would oppose that.

Well, WE do, Pacific Blue Cross for one. There is a world and the rest of Canada ouside of greater Toronto.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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Well, WE do, Pacific Blue Cross for one. There is a world and the rest of Canada ouside of greater Toronto.

Blue Cross has nothing to do with government, JLM. So again, your comment that let us eliminate the middleman, the government, doesn't make sense. Or are you saying let us eliminate government, let us leave medical care solely to Blue Cross and the likes?
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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How do you get less middle operators if you add private enterprise? The government will still have it's role to play in legislation, and socialized care. And then you add in HMO's, insurance companies, private clinics, private contractors who specialize in systems management, consultants, adjusters, etc.

I don't see how it creates less. How does it lead to fewer parties grabbing a slice of the pie?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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How do you get less middle operators if you add private enterprise? The government will still have it's role to play in legislation, and socialized care. And then you add in HMO's, insurance companies, private clinics, private contractors who specialize in systems management, consultants, adjusters, etc.

I don't see how it creates less. How does it lead to fewer parties grabbing a slice of the pie?

Private enterprize is a given- that is what they are there for - to deliver goods and services and by and large do it quite well, especially when monitored by competition. Gov't can enact legislation (to do with health issues) but should NOT be sticking their bureaucratic and trough slurping beaks into the operation of it.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Private enterprize is a given- that is what they are there for - to deliver goods and services and by and large do it quite well, especially when monitored by competition. Gov't can enact legislation (to do with health issues) but should NOT be sticking their bureaucratic and trough slurping beaks into the operation of it.

And I am saying it again, government does not do that here in Canada, it leaves both Family practitioners and specialists pretty much alone to practice medicine as they see fit.
 

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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Private enterprize is a given- that is what they are there for - to deliver goods and services and by and large do it quite well, especially when monitored by competition. Gov't can enact legislation (to do with health issues) but should NOT be sticking their bureaucratic and trough slurping beaks into the operation of it.

Pile of horse crap!

The Canadian system is over 30% more efficient than the American one which is basically all private and way more expensive.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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10 Lumps Of Coal In The Health Care Bill

#5. Goverment Controls on your doctors decisions: The Senate Bill bar doctors from participating in the private insurance system unless they implement whatever regulations the secretary of health and human services choses to impose to "improve health care quality" (p. 149). That broad phrase encompasses everything in medicine.

This wpuld be the first time in history that the federal goverment is given power over how doctors treat privately insured patients.

Investors.com - 10 Lumps Of Coal In The Health Care Bill


This is just one of many being forced upon us.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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Pile of horse crap!

The Canadian system is over 30% more efficient than the American one which is basically all private and way more expensive.


Canada spends much less per capita than USA and enjoys higher life expectancy and lower infant morality than USA.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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10 Lumps Of Coal In The Health Care Bill

#5. Goverment Controls on your doctors decisions: The Senate Bill bar doctors from participating in the private insurance system unless they implement whatever regulations the secretary of health and human services choses to impose to "improve health care quality" (p. 149). That broad phrase encompasses everything in medicine.

This wpuld be the first time in history that the federal goverment is given power over how doctors treat privately insured patients.

Investors.com - 10 Lumps Of Coal In The Health Care Bill

This is just one of many being forced upon us.

Investors.com has a nice, financial sounding name, but in fact it is an extreme right wing, political website, comparable with Town Hall, Human Events etc. It has only a few articles on investing, and a majority of the articles are in support of the extreme right wing philosophy.

Anything they say must be taken in that spirit. The idea is great though, call yourself investors.com, that way people will think that you are a responsible, respectable, financial website which dispenses with valuable investing advice, and enters into politics only when absolutely necessary.

The reality alas, is completely the opposite. It is mostly extreme right wing propaganda sheet, which occasionally has articles about investment. Reminds me of Idi Amin’s ‘State Research Bureau’, an innocuous sounding, but highly dreaded secret service organization.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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Canada spends much less per capita than USA and enjoys higher life expectancy and lower infant morality than USA.
Why does my provincial government have difficulty meeting its health care commitments ?
Why does health care consume 40% and growing of our provincial government?
Why do many Canadians have to travel to places like the U.S. or India to recieve health care not redilly available at home?
Why does B.C. and other provinces ship patients to U.S. for standard treatments
not available in Canada?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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Why does my provincial government have difficulty meeting its health care commitments ?
Why does health care consume 40% and growing of our provincial government?
Why do many Canadians have to travel to places like the U.S. or India to recieve health care not redilly available at home?
Why does B.C. and other provinces ship patients to U.S. for standard treatments
not available in Canada?
No business in any sector has a 100% on-demand resource contingency plan. There are Americans that go abroad too for healthcare.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Why does my provincial government have difficulty meeting its health care commitments ?
Why does health care consume 40% and growing of our provincial government?
Why do many Canadians have to travel to places like the U.S. or India to recieve health care not redilly available at home?
Why does B.C. and other provinces ship patients to U.S. for standard treatments
not available in Canada?

That is because our gov'ts try to B.S. us on how good our system is and lucky for them many Canadians believe the malarky.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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On a related subject, I personally know people who have had dental work like root canals done in Mexico at a fraction of the cost they'd pay here, and from what they say there are excellent dentists there.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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On a related subject, I personally know people who have had dental work like root canals done in Mexico at a fraction of the cost they'd pay here, and from what they say there are excellent dentists there.
My private for profit dental plan covers root canals, so as long as I am employed there is no need to go there.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
On a related subject, I personally know people who have had dental work like root canals done in Mexico at a fraction of the cost they'd pay here, and from what they say there are excellent dentists there.
No surprise, that's why car plants are moving to Mexico from Canada and the US as well.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Why does my provincial government have difficulty meeting its health care commitments ?
Why does health care consume 40% and growing of our provincial government?
Why do many Canadians have to travel to places like the U.S. or India to recieve health care not redilly available at home?
Why does B.C. and other provinces ship patients to U.S. for standard treatments
not available in Canada?

No system is 100% perfect, pgs, each system has its own horror stories (and I am sure American system has more than most). That is why one must look at overall results when judging how good a system is.

If there are any localized problems, they must be corrected. However, when judging the system as a whole, one must look at overall picture (how much is being spent, what kind of results are achieved for that kind of money etc.).

Looking at overall results, American system fails miserably; Canadian system does not do badly at all.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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My private for profit dental plan covers root canals, so as long as I am employed there is no need to go there.

I don’t think it ever would be cost effective to go to Mexico for a root Canada, pgs. I don’t know how much root canal costs (I haven’t even had a cavity in years, at least for the past ten eyras, all I have had is six monthly checkups)), but you must take into account cost of traveling to Mexico, motel expenses, food and incidentals, plus the cost of root canal in Mexico.

Compare that to cost of root canal in Canada and are you really going to save much? I seriously doubt it.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
I don’t think it ever would be cost effective to go to Mexico for a root Canada, pgs. I don’t know how much root canal costs (I haven’t even had a cavity in years, at least for the past ten eyras, all I have had is six monthly checkups)), but you must take into account cost of traveling to Mexico, motel expenses, food and incidentals, plus the cost of root canal in Mexico.

Compare that to cost of root canal in Canada and are you really going to save much? I seriously doubt it.

NO sane person in their right mind is going to go to Mexico just to have dental work done, but people do have expensive dental work done there while on holiday, which partially defrays the cost of the trip.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
On a related subject, I personally know people who have had dental work like root canals done in Mexico at a fraction of the cost they'd pay here, and from what they say there are excellent dentists there.
Medical vacations are big business around the globe. They come with lots of horror stories too. The reason they're cheaper is because they work for less and they are less regulated.

Americans make up the lion's share of medical vacationers.