No proof that private sector works, but lots of proof it doesn't

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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So you are saying that people in the government that provide services turn everything they touch to shyte but the ones that provide regulation do a good job? Why do you think that is? Do they have different job applications or hiring standards for the federal government depending on whether the job is service or regulatory focused. Inquiring minds want to know.
Well troll, I couldn't tell you honestly, but I think it might have something to do with who applies for what.

I highly doubt health and welfare positions are applied to by people with business or banking degrees. Nor do I think positions in financial analysis, are applied to by people with a degree in the social services fields.

But hey, that kind of logic would just get in the way of trolling eh?

Still doing the nic change eh? Good call, it doesn't make you look like a troll at all.

I guess your sore that I fed it to you again, in the thread on the Protesters eh?
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I disagree with the opening statement. The problem is the perspective. If you follow the money and understand the glut of wealth accumulated in the upper 2 per cent you can see that from the perspective of the rich the private sector has never worked better and that deregulation was the ticket to the present upper class nirvana. As for government, we don't have any in the west, we have cliques of ultra rich dictating policy directly and governing by overt power alone.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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If it was really that simple, the more regulated banks in Canada would be doing worse than the less regulated banks in the States. In fact, Canada as a whole would be doing worse than the states. I wouldn't trade places with Phoenix, Detroit, Buffalo or Sacramento.



...and there are literally countless examples of non union, non government, private slothful companies that waste and gouge. Unfortunately, they are usually the biggest organizations around and it simply is not wise to just let them fail. The effects of a poorly run 7-11 store closing is non existent compared to a GM closing its doors.

GM non union? We wish.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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With all the fiasco in the fiscal world with there precious open market, you'd think our gorvnr. would realize that its openning the door to corruption. Market has to be controled and any base utility should be regulated by the elected government.(oil, food, energy, environement) Any time they let the private sector in, we always see an explosion in prices. Then we are expected to bail them out,,,,,, why????? Anybody buying food for a family in Canada will quickly realize that something is wrong when you pay more at the grocery store than at the restaurant. Even then, our minister of finance wants to privatize our CPP.

All they need to do is taxes everybody equally, there is enough taxes going around for all of us, yet, there givivng it all away to their rich friends. I think we need a new breed of politician that wont be so sold on lobbying and start truly looking out for us ordinary citizen.

My two cents.

Your view is way too black and white. I could probably describe my views as somewhat social-corporatist, so I can certainly understand the vale of regulating the market. Regulation of the private sector is a far cry from its comlete nationalization and socialization.

While I agree that a completely free market is detrimental to our society, a completely unfree market would be equally detrimental. Could you imagine an author working on a book on his own time on the weekends having to to to some government department to get that free time approved? What a bureaucracy that would be, to say the least.
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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I highly doubt health and welfare positions are applied to by people with business or banking degrees. Nor do I think positions in financial analysis, are applied to by people with a degree in the social services fields.

I'm not talking about health vs financial analysis. I'm talking about service vs regulation. The question is really rather simple. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that (as an example) Alberta Environment has a different hiring standard for an engineer for working in the regulatory department as opposed to one in the operations or construction side? I'll keep asking if you keep twisting.
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'm not talking about health vs financial analysis.
I know.

I'm talking about service vs regulation.
I know.

The question is really rather simple.
It would have to be, you asked it. It's the complicated answer you're having difficulty understanding.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that (as an example) Alberta Environment has a different hiring standard for an engineer for working in the regulatory department as opposed to one in the operations or construction side?
No. Do you have any evidence they don't?

I'll keep asking as I keep twisting.
FIFY.

As far as I can see, you're the one twisting, Porter ... as usual
It's called projection Lone, you already knew that though.

Twisting? I'm just asking questions.
It's called trolling actually, but I love it. It gets me all a tittered.
 

Cannuck

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It would have to be, you asked it. It's the complicated answer you're having difficulty understanding.

I may very well have trouble understanding complicated answers. In this particular case, you haven't given one so I think you are jumping to conclusions

No. Do you have any evidence they don't?

No but I didn't make a claim so it's not really up to me.

It's quite clear you are unwilling to provide an answer.
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I may very well have trouble understanding complicated answers.
There's no "may" about it. You've shown you don't.

In this particular case, you haven't given one so I think you are jumping to conclusions
Nah, the simple fact that you didn't get it and then twisted and turned to try and get a leg up, shows just how far you're willing to go, to appear smart.

No but I didn't make a claim so it's not really up to me.
No, I guess it isn't.

It's quite clear you are unwilling to provide an answer.
I already did, you just aren't capable of understanding it. Likely due to either the fact that I so enraged you in that thread, or you simply have a comprehension issue.

I figure it's a combination of the two. Hence the fact that I'm your new target, hence the constant nic change. I love it. That kind of grudge and power gets me all excited.

You really shouldn't take this stuff so seriously Cannuck, someone might start making fun of you. I take the BassPro web site more seriously, than I take you.

So, seriously (LOL), I can't find any reference to your military service. I can find some reference to you being an Army brat though. You do realize there's a big difference between the two right?
 
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Cannuck

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I already did,...

No you haven't. Perhaps you do not understand the question. You compared the qualification requirements of two different sectors of government. I seriously doubt there is anybody on this forum doesn't believe somebody on the bench requires different qualifications than somebody in an operating room. However, since you made the claim that the regulatory arm is not as incompetent as the service arm, you should at the very least explain why that is (considering most of the qualifications for employees within each ministry are the same).
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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No you haven't.
Ya, the anti Joo folk say the same thing all the time. They to have a problem with reality. Go figure.

Perhaps you do not understand the question.
Remember, it was simple, you asked it. I answered it. You didn't get it. Please do try and keep up.

You compared the qualification requirements of two different sectors of government.
Well ya.

I seriously doubt there is anybody on this forum doesn't believe somebody on the bench requires different qualifications than somebody in an operating room.
My point exactly, now you're catching on. Reread it and asked a friend to explain it to you, didjya? Given the length of time it takes for you to formulate a reply, I'm guessing that's the case. I understand, my sons sometimes ask me to explain things to them so they can better understand. The main point being, that they learn from it.

Did you learn anything from the explanation you got from your friend?

However, since you made the claim that the regulatory arm is not as incompetent as the service arm, you should at the very least explain why that is (considering most of the qualifications for employees within each ministry are the same).
Different skill sets, patronage, cronyism, take your pick.

But I highly doubt you'll find a University graduate with a degree in business, vetting who meets the standards of eligibility for welfare.

Are you almost done twisting my posts to suit you Cannuck? I mean if you're going to project your failings so blatantly, you could at least try and hide it a little.

And I'm still waiting for you to show me some reference to your military career. Should I give up on that now? And just call you a liar? I'm not going to ask you to identify yourself or anything, I just want to see where you've referenced in the past.
 
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sejenny

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Jan 8, 2011
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Unfortunately, government does a far worse job than the private sector. What government must do is get out of the way of business and set the environment for private business to prosper and they will. Other factors such as the currency/financial crisis and stupid government decisions, red tape and tons of regulations are why costs increase.

JMO

I agree, and its easy to belittle my post, however, what i meant to say before,,,, is it really seems that govmt. will do their damn best to be incompetent in all areas, they are beeing pushed by private sector lobbying ($$$$) to transfer govt. programm to them. I see and understand some of the views, but really people. The part about lazy union,,,,, totally agree, however unions came to exist becaus of employer abuse,,,,and we are beeing sent back there slowly.

Unfortunately, government does a far worse job than the private sector. What government must do is get out of the way of business and set the environment for private business to prosper and they will. Other factors such as the currency/financial crisis and stupid government decisions, red tape and tons of regulations are why costs increase.

JMO

Yes becaus there hands are tied to the rich,,,,,,,,,,,

Ontario Hydro is a bastion of integrity and efficiency?

The agricultural marketing boards are keeping prices lower?

Are you kidding?

Anything the Gov't touches, turns to shyte.

As soon as you allow the Gov't and public service unions in, and make mediocrity a job skill, you open the door to waste, sloth and gouging. There's literally countless examples of this in Crown Corporations.

BS. There are countless examples of this being a simple lie.

I didn't expect them to be bailed out. We should have let them fail. The Liberals and NDP pushed for it.
Stop shopping at high end stores. Stop urban sprawl. Urban sprawl is the most detrimental issue facing agriculture in Ontario right now. This of course is aided by marketing boards, that make it difficult, for farmers to market their products freely. Of course this is only compounded by a financial system, whose profits are out of control.

Wow, are you misinformed. He wants nothing of the sort. He wants to allow people to opt out of contributing to CPP, and place those funds in a private financial institution.

That's freedom, not corruption.

You forgot lazy unions, lazy welfare cases, and special interest groups.

I agree.

Your post deserves 1.5 cents change. Better collect quick, before the do away with the penny.

In some cases, yes.

Really?

I can only find that in the instances where it's been done, that they have done the same or only marginally better than.

Now that's a complete crock. All one has to do is watch urban sprawl, to see that the Gov't is doing little to stop the destruction of natural areas.

I've seen hundreds of thousands of acres bulldozed for new homes, industry and mineral exploitation.

Who sets the regulations that govern said institutions? Who repealed the Glass Stegal act, that was a leading cause of the financial down turn?

Lone Wolf will argue that one.

Really? You want to use the internet, a luxury, as an example? Really?


CDN bear, you really take this pers. peoples opinions will vary, Gov. corruption is here and present in Canada, i hope you wont disagree with this, and supports my point,,,, when our interest are in the hands of public sector, at least we have a say to our elected members, private sector,,,, we dont. There is room for private, but not everywhere. I say first all, lobbying shoould be abolished, how can our politician think of our well beeing when there offered $$$$$ by multi rich companies (without naming a few).
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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CDN bear, you really take this pers.
No actually I don't take it "pers". I don't even take it personally.

peoples opinions will vary, Gov. corruption is here and present in Canada, i hope you wont disagree with this, and supports my point,,,,
Of course, I pretty much said just that.
when our interest are in the hands of public sector, at least we have a say to our elected members, private sector,,,, we dont.
With regulation, we do. Take the Hunting and PAL courses. Offered by private firms, subject to stringent regulation.

There is room for private, but not everywhere.
I actually agree.

I say first all, lobbying shoould be abolished, how can our politician think of our well beeing when there offered $$$$$ by multi rich companies (without naming a few).
Thankfully in Canada, that's a crime.
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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Different skill sets, patronage, cronyism, take your pick.

So you are saying that (using my previous example) an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the operations of municipal water systems has a different skill set than an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the regulating of municipal water systems...or one of them may have gotten their job because of cronyism or patronage. Is that really your position?
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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So you are saying that (using my previous example) an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the operations of municipal water systems has a different skill set than an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the regulating of municipal water systems...or one of them may have gotten their job because of cronyism or patronage. Is that really your position?
No. What ever gave you that idea?

Oh ya, you need to twist the post so you can appear smart and on the ball.

You failed.

If you spent the same amount of effort on reading what is actually typed, instead of focusing on little snippets of a post or changing nic's. You wouldn't be such a troll and the posts you deposit wouldn't be so insipid.
 
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taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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So you are saying that (using my previous example) an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the operations of municipal water systems has a different skill set than an engineer working for Alberta Environment involved in the regulating of municipal water systems...or one of them may have gotten their job because of cronyism or patronage. Is that really your position?

It is quite possible that they have different skill sets although there are obvious overlaps. I would expect the engineer involved in regulations to have a much better comprehension of the applicable laws for starters Doubtful that either one would have gotten their job via patronage but possible in regulation if the engineer was far enough up the food chain to count.
 

Cannuck

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No. What ever gave you that idea?

Joey II

I'm trying to follow the bouncing Joey II logic ball. If you would just answer the questions I wouldn't have to speculate (or troll as you like to call it).

BTW - I got the message from the mods. If calling you Joey II bothers you so much, you could have just said so and asked me to stop. I know your ego would not allow you to do it publicly but you could have sent me a PM.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Joey II

I'm trying to follow the bouncing Joey II logic ball.
What ball? Are you playing with your balls? Does your mother know?

If you would just answer the questions I wouldn't have to speculate (or troll as you like to call it).
I did, you didn't understand the answer, then twisted it to continue trolling.

BTW - I got the message from the mods. If calling you Joey II bothers you so much, you could have just said so and asked me to stop. I know your ego would not allow you to do it publicly but you could have sent me a PM.
LOL, are you actually telling me you know all about my ego?

It is to laugh, watching you twist in the wind.

Actually, I didn't ask the Mods to do anything. They are free to comment otherwise to impeach my credibility if they so wish.

It's not as if your trolling goes under their collective radar Cannuck. But hey, when you think you aren't a troll, what else could you possibly believe eh.

Are you even remotely aware of who actually is acting more like Joey here? I doubt you are.
 

Cannuck

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It is quite possible that they have different skill sets although there are obvious overlaps.

The skill set is not much different as many of the Engineers I personally know have moved from one section of AB Env to the other. That's kind of the point I'm getting at. In many areas of government there is little separation between the regulatory and the service side. I'm pretty sure Joey II gets it and his verbal gymnastics is his way of avoiding admitting he misspoke.

The fact is that the competency or lack thereof of any organizational group has everything to do with the control (or command system) instilled in it and nothing to do with whether it is public or private. But what the hell do I know, I'm just a troll.