No proof that private sector works, but lots of proof it doesn't

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I'm pretty sure Joey II gets it and his verbal gymnastics is his way of avoiding admitting he misspoke.
I just sifted through Elections Canada Online | Canada Elections Act , and you're right.

I concede.
I have a litany of those. Including one I already conceded to, to you, today.

So consider that getting fed, yet again. Don't you get tired of being proven wrong?

The fact is that the competency or lack thereof of any organizational group has everything to do with the control (or command system) instilled in it and nothing to do with whether it is public or private.
Regulation, ya I think I said that a while back. Go figure. I guess in all that stretching and twisting, you missed actually reading what was typed. No big surprise. You have to compromise some things to be a good troll.

But what the hell do I know, I'm just a troll.
Quite true.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
It's not as if your trolling goes under their collective radar Cannuck.

Joey, Joey, Joey....

I'm sure my "trolling" (if you want to call it that) does, considering others blatantly disregard form rules (yourself included) with nary a cross word from them. I think they have too much time to chase your bogeymen.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Joey, Joey, Joey....

I'm sure my "trolling" (if you want to call it that) does, considering others blatantly disregard form rules (yourself included) with nary a cross word from them. I think they have too much time to chase your bogeymen.
You can cherry pick all the snipped quotes you want, in the end, you just got fed again.

Carry on at your own peril. I took my warning like a man. I never once thought it was you that reported my posts, nor would I sink to the childish level of accusing you, then ignore the fact that I made it quite clear any mod is authorized to prove me a liar. I won't be the harbinger of your Moderated spankings, you will...as I said, you aren't fooling anybody.

I'm well aware of the fact that I can be a troll. I admit it freely and unashamed.

The difference here is, I'm just man enough I guess. Speaking of which, any word on a reference to your military career yet? I'm starting to smell BS there.

You really shouldn't take this so seriously....
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
You can cherry pick all the snipped quotes you want, in the end, you just got fed again.

Carry on at your own peril. I took my warning like a man. I never once thought it was you that reported my posts, nor would I sink to the childish level of accusing you, then ignore the fact that I made it quite clear any mod is authorized to prove me a liar. I won't be the harbinger of your Moderated spankings, you will...as I said, you aren't fooling anybody.

I'm well aware of the fact that I can be a troll. I admit it freely and unashamed.

The difference here is, I'm just man enough I guess. Speaking of which, any word on a reference to your military career yet? I'm starting to smell BS there.

You really shouldn't take this so seriously....

I have no idea what you are talking about. I know this may come as a shock to you but your history here is of no importance to me.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I have no idea what you are talking about.
That's quite apparent by the twisted and incomprehensible posts you've deposited today.

I know this may come as a shock to you but your history here is of no importance to me.
Of course it isn't, which is of course why you brought it up.

(yourself included)



Dude, you should quit now, while you still have room for supper!

I'm not your average cannibal troll sunshine.

But don't take this all so seriously...LOL

Anyways, I'd love to stay and feed you again and again, but having spent the better part of the day already feeding you, I built up a little hunger. I'm off to dinner. Take care Cannuck. Maybe you can hang on to that grudge till I get back? Oh what am I saying. Look who I'm talking to, of course you can...

See you soon.
 
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damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
I agree a lot with what JLM said a while ago the companies that are in the public interest
should be owned or in some measure controlled by government regulation to ensure the
companies crown corporations or the private sector are living up to the regulations for
safety concerns and so on. The baker and candlestick maker industries should be left
alone. Now the financial world, banks, mortgage companies and so on. These people do
need some regulation, at least in the area of ethics and I think it is troubling to have to say
that. Look at the shabby way they operated that brought about the financial collapse of
the markets. That was done by allowing all kinds of practices that threaten the stability of
ordinary people. Sure some people should have been smarter and got in over their head.
I agree. The problem is when you threaten the financial security of the country you in
effect bring about insecurity in the market and that can effect everyone including those who
do things right. It increases interest rates for everyone as they don't ask were you prudent
or stupid, they just ask for the increased payment they want from you down the road.
Let me address marketing boards. The fact is marketing boards do regulate the price of
certain commodities. The government is not giving farmers anything with the board it is
regulating the sums of money that ensure the price does not go under a specific amount.
Quota determines the availability of supply.
Most farm commodities do not have marketing boards only the very large ones.
Today prices for farm goods are way to low for peoples expectations and the costs under
which farmers operate. There is increased competition, but it is not fair level playing field
competition.
For example in Washington State, self admittedly 50 to 60% of farm labour is illegal migrant
labour. In addition the American Government legislates that all food stamp purchase must be
American product. Institutional buying hospitals, prison etc must be American product.
Foreign Aid must be American product. In Canada its wide open they can dump their product
here we can't even contact their closed market.
In turn our country is keeping milk, and other products out and I hope they continue as their
standards are not as high as ours. They keep complaining in some industries that our standards
are too high.
In short the Marketing Boards do not cost the taxpayer a cent, its an urban myth. The money is
from the market place, through the marketing boards and the quotas determine who gets what.

I do agree that we have to ensure there is a place for both private and government in the business
world depending on the business. In addition I don't like it when governments come in and do the
privatization thing, the reason is we as citizens built up inventory and cash reserves to operate the
industry being sold. We as Canadians have equity in what was built. Even if the company was
losing money the value in that company in assets and infrastructure is worth a lot of money.
Along comes a government with an ideology to sell it and it ends up at a fire sale price and we who
paid get virtually nothing for our investment. The Fast Ferries in BC and BC Rail are prime
examples. Think CN took BC Rail, we didn't benefit like we should have and the company will
make billions as they have the rail access to Prince Rupert that will within the next ten years
become a resource super port.
It is too simplistic to say everything should be government owned or a business only approach.
We as Canadians benefit from having both systems working for the betterment of our society.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I agree a lot with what JLM said a while ago the companies that are in the public interest
should be owned or in some measure controlled by government regulation to ensure the
companies crown corporations or the private sector are living up to the regulations for
safety concerns and so on. The baker and candlestick maker industries should be left
alone. Now the financial world, banks, mortgage companies and so on. These people do
need some regulation, at least in the area of ethics and I think it is troubling to have to say
that. Look at the shabby way they operated that brought about the financial collapse of
the markets. That was done by allowing all kinds of practices that threaten the stability of
ordinary people. Sure some people should have been smarter and got in over their head.
I agree. The problem is when you threaten the financial security of the country you in
effect bring about insecurity in the market and that can effect everyone including those who
do things right. It increases interest rates for everyone as they don't ask were you prudent
or stupid, they just ask for the increased payment they want from you down the road.
Let me address marketing boards. The fact is marketing boards do regulate the price of
certain commodities. The government is not giving farmers anything with the board it is
regulating the sums of money that ensure the price does not go under a specific amount.
Quota determines the availability of supply.
Most farm commodities do not have marketing boards only the very large ones.
Today prices for farm goods are way to low for peoples expectations and the costs under
which farmers operate. There is increased competition, but it is not fair level playing field
competition.
For example in Washington State, self admittedly 50 to 60% of farm labour is illegal migrant
labour. In addition the American Government legislates that all food stamp purchase must be
American product. Institutional buying hospitals, prison etc must be American product.
Foreign Aid must be American product. In Canada its wide open they can dump their product
here we can't even contact their closed market.
In turn our country is keeping milk, and other products out and I hope they continue as their
standards are not as high as ours. They keep complaining in some industries that our standards
are too high.
In short the Marketing Boards do not cost the taxpayer a cent, its an urban myth. The money is
from the market place, through the marketing boards and the quotas determine who gets what.

I do agree that we have to ensure there is a place for both private and government in the business
world depending on the business. In addition I don't like it when governments come in and do the
privatization thing, the reason is we as citizens built up inventory and cash reserves to operate the
industry being sold. We as Canadians have equity in what was built. Even if the company was
losing money the value in that company in assets and infrastructure is worth a lot of money.
Along comes a government with an ideology to sell it and it ends up at a fire sale price and we who
paid get virtually nothing for our investment. The Fast Ferries in BC and BC Rail are prime
examples. Think CN took BC Rail, we didn't benefit like we should have and the company will
make billions as they have the rail access to Prince Rupert that will within the next ten years
become a resource super port.
It is too simplistic to say everything should be government owned or a business only approach.
We as Canadians benefit from having both systems working for the betterment of our society.

Establishments like banks, mortgage companies, loan companies have to be closely monitored and regulated by competent people. The sub prime fiasco in the U.S. is nothing short of criminal (and it had NOTHING to do with George Bush), it had everything to do with stupidity, dishonesty and incompetence of those in charge of lending the money - first of all no down payment, second no proof of ability to pay, third- baiting prospective buyers with "bargain basement" interest to go up to an undisclosed amount in the future. Can you imagine selling your house to "Johnny Hayseed" who walks in off the street with no money in his pocket, just handing him the keys and let him move in, with no job guarantees, no assets, no credit rating? That's about how sick it was.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
Ain't that the truth, the problem I have with the Bush Administration and to some degree our
friend Bill Clinton, is when they both allowed changes that allowed the unskilled day traders
to set up shop without even knowing in some cases what the hell the market system is all
about. The derivative legislation that let people borrow money they didn't have to finance a
huge debt they couldn't afford in order to speculate was in fact their fault.
We now have a 1.2 quadrillion dollar outstanding debt world wide because of it. Everyone
got greedy and this thing is the real reason the economy is in the trouble its in and the public
has not been fully informed as to the possible tsunami that is heading right for us.
What surprised me is the staggering amount of money that people can't even comprehend
so they stick their head in the sand. People actually believe the financial crisis in the world is
over, and they have no idea how slim the thread is that is holding all this together.
The problem we face when simplifying things is Governments are incompetent and the
senior businesses have abandoned ethics and honesty. Both make excuses until both are
morally bankrupt. Therefore neither system is working the way they should but for some reason
in spite of themselves they are still working. It is up to you and I to ensure they work for the
good of society. How you ask, by doing your duty at election time, and listening to what these
people are saying, find out who they are and determine whether or not you want that person in
your riding speaking and conducting your business for you. Oh that would take too many Canadians
to much work to actually do it. The other decision one can make is in the market place, it you
do not support unethical businesses they won't survive.
Idealistic yes of course, but sadly until we do something there will be no change.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
One thing I could see as far as natural monopolies go, which usually includes public utilities, would be to wave anti-monopolization laws for those such consumers' co-ops so as to ensure that the consumer gets to vote for the board of directors. I'd also add a natural-monopoly tax which would apply to all natural monopolies that are not consumers' co-ops. This would thus give consumers' co-ops a double advantage over other corporations.
 

10larry

Electoral Member
Apr 6, 2010
722
0
16
Niagara Falls
Darkbeavers' post to me gets to the meat of the matter with wealth like cream rising to the top courtesy regulator green lights. However public sector scavengers are no slouches at exploiting loose or self regulation either. Never mind the power cliques darkbeaver alluded to our overworked senators in a 3 month period racked up $1.2 mi in 'discretionary' travel expenes with Pamela Wallin leading the pac @$32k. A great example of public sector monetary prudence be mr. Lavinge who stung us for $700k even while banned from doing whatever it is senators do. Entitlement knows no bounds private or public, some view the ballot as having a say in public sector entitlements but both political stripes have plenty of private strings attached.
CBC News - Politics - Senator charged with fraud still spending
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Ontario Hydro is a bastion of integrity and efficiency?

The agricultural marketing boards are keeping prices lower?

Are you kidding?

Anything the Gov't touches, turns to shyte.

As soon as you allow the Gov't and public service unions in, and make mediocrity a job skill, you open the door to waste, sloth and gouging. There's literally countless examples of this in Crown Corporations.

BS. There are countless examples of this being a simple lie.

I didn't expect them to be bailed out. We should have let them fail. The Liberals and NDP pushed for it.
Stop shopping at high end stores. Stop urban sprawl. Urban sprawl is the most detrimental issue facing agriculture in Ontario right now. This of course is aided by marketing boards, that make it difficult, for farmers to market their products freely. Of course this is only compounded by a financial system, whose profits are out of control.

Wow, are you misinformed. He wants nothing of the sort. He wants to allow people to opt out of contributing to CPP, and place those funds in a private financial institution.

That's freedom, not corruption.

You forgot lazy unions, lazy welfare cases, and special interest groups.

I agree.

Your post deserves 1.5 cents change. Better collect quick, before the do away with the penny.

In some cases, yes.

Really?

I can only find that in the instances where it's been done, that they have done the same or only marginally better than.

Now that's a complete crock. All one has to do is watch urban sprawl, to see that the Gov't is doing little to stop the destruction of natural areas.

I've seen hundreds of thousands of acres bulldozed for new homes, industry and mineral exploitation.

Who sets the regulations that govern said institutions? Who repealed the Glass Stegal act, that was a leading cause of the financial down turn?

Lone Wolf will argue that one.

Really? You want to use the internet, a luxury, as an example? Really?

Ontario Hydro is a bastion of integrity and efficiency?

The agricultural marketing boards are keeping prices lower?

Are you kidding?

Anything the Gov't touches, turns to shyte.

As soon as you allow the Gov't and public service unions in, and make mediocrity a job skill, you open the door to waste, sloth and gouging. There's literally countless examples of this in Crown Corporations.

BS. There are countless examples of this being a simple lie.

I didn't expect them to be bailed out. We should have let them fail. The Liberals and NDP pushed for it.
Stop shopping at high end stores. Stop urban sprawl. Urban sprawl is the most detrimental issue facing agriculture in Ontario right now. This of course is aided by marketing boards, that make it difficult, for farmers to market their products freely. Of course this is only compounded by a financial system, whose profits are out of control.

Wow, are you misinformed. He wants nothing of the sort. He wants to allow people to opt out of contributing to CPP, and place those funds in a private financial institution.

That's freedom, not corruption.

You forgot lazy unions, lazy welfare cases, and special interest groups.

I agree.

Your post deserves 1.5 cents change. Better collect quick, before the do away with the penny.

In some cases, yes.

Really?

I can only find that in the instances where it's been done, that they have done the same or only marginally better than.

Now that's a complete crock. All one has to do is watch urban sprawl, to see that the Gov't is doing little to stop the destruction of natural areas.

I've seen hundreds of thousands of acres bulldozed for new homes, industry and mineral exploitation.

Who sets the regulations that govern said institutions? Who repealed the Glass Stegal act, that was a leading cause of the financial down turn?

Lone Wolf will argue that one.

Really? You want to use the internet, a luxury, as an example? Really?

There are dozens of examples of government outperforming the private sector. Health care and education are two obvious examples. No private system has been able to match either of these sectors on a dollar for dollar basis. Certainly private hospitals and private schools can offer better services, but not for the price that the public system offers. The same can be said for dozens of other government services.

One such service is public transportation. To my knowledge there are few private mass transit systems that are not owned or subsidized by government.

In comparing basic infrastructure it is more than obvious that privately owned utilities usually charge higher fees than publicly owned systems and it is interesting to note that the private sector usually expects government to provide and maintain streets, highways, airports as well as water and sewerage systems.

So far as the internet is concerned, Bear, we are now in the 21st century. The internet is no more a luxury now than radio, TV, or telephone communication is a luxury. It is a vast and growing part of the economy and the social life of Canadians as is evidenced by this forum and thousands of other internet sites. If you regard it as a luxury, then you are part of a tiny minority. Nations like South Korea seem to have figured this out which is why the South Korean government is vastly increasing internet bandwidth. Canada, which has let the private sector decide the speed and availability of internet services now lags behind nations that have a greater vision of the future.

So far as the bulldozing of thousands of acres of land; I guess I missed the fact that it was government that did the bulldozing. Somehow I thought it was the private sector that was responsible for the building of Shopping malls and subdivisions.

So far as economic meltdowns are concerned government is responsible only for failing to properly regulate financial sector. Instead of asking who repealed the Steagall Act ask instead who pressured the lapdogs that make up the US Congress to repeal the act. I refer you to this article detailing the act and its repeal. Glass?Steagall Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, the latest financial balls-up in the US is only one historical example of the problems caused by private sector financial institutions operating in an uncontrolled manner. There is, of course, the Great Depression of the 1930s, which in turn was preceded by numerous economic crises in the 19th century; all of which were precipitated by the failure of the private sector to maintain a balanced economy.

The point is that the private sector does some things very well. My computer is a top line gaming machine custom built for me at a private vendor. I would not ask or expect the government to provide that service for me. However, I would hate to see health or educational services offered on a pure for-profit basis. The experience of the USA and other nations shows that this simply does not work very well so far as the average citizen is concerned.

BTW why don't you let Lone Wolf speak for himself?

Cuba and North Korea are doing just fine.


Is there any point to that comment? I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating that anyone follow Cuba or North Korea.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
No private system has been able to match either of these sectors on a dollar for dollar basis.
You contradict that statement here...

Certainly private hospitals and private schools can offer better services, but not for the price that the public system offers.
Of course not, but for for lack of efficiency. But for lack of public purse strings.

One such service is public transportation. To my knowledge there are few private mass transit systems that are not owned or subsidized by government.
I agree, because I actually can't think of anyone I know that wants to take a bus. Poor scheduling, poorly placed stops.

In comparing basic infrastructure it is more than obvious that privately owned utilities usually charge higher fees than publicly owned systems and it is interesting to note that the private sector usually expects government to provide and maintain streets, highways, airports as well as water and sewerage systems.
Why wouldn't they?

So far as the internet is concerned, Bear, we are now in the 21st century. The internet is no more a luxury now than radio, TV, or telephone communication is a luxury.
Those are all luxuries.

It is a vast and growing part of the economy and the social life of Canadians as is evidenced by this forum and thousands of other internet sites. If you regard it as a luxury, then you are part of a tiny minority.
So be it, realism is on the down swing. I already knew that.

Nations like South Korea seem to have figured this out which is why the South Korean government is vastly increasing internet bandwidth.
How else can you get the propaganda to the mud huts?

Canada, which has let the private sector decide the speed and availability of internet services now lags behind nations that have a greater vision of the future.
That's because the Gov't has allowed private companies like Rogers to monopolize the system.

So far as the bulldozing of thousands of acres of land; I guess I missed the fact that it was government that did the bulldozing. Somehow I thought it was the private sector that was responsible for the building of Shopping malls and subdivisions.
You are aware that you need a permit to do that right?

Do you think these permits are just printed on the construction companies computer?

So far as economic meltdowns are concerned government is responsible only for failing to properly regulate financial sector. Instead of asking who repealed the Steagall Act ask instead who pressured the lapdogs that make up the US Congress to repeal the act. I refer you to this article detailing the act and its repeal. Glass?Steagall Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read it, as well as several others when the collapse happened.

In the end, the Gov't bears the responsibility. My kids can pester me for a video game, in the end it is I that has to weigh the value.

However, the latest financial balls-up in the US is only one historical example of the problems caused by private sector financial institutions operating in an uncontrolled manner. There is, of course, the Great Depression of the 1930s, which in turn was preceded by numerous economic crises in the 19th century; all of which were precipitated by the failure of the private sector to maintain a balanced economy.
And the Gov'ts that allowed that to take place, bear no accountability?

The point is that the private sector does some things very well. My computer is a top line gaming machine custom built for me at a private vendor. I would not ask or expect the government to provide that service for me.

However, I would hate to see health or educational services offered on a pure for-profit basis.
But at the beginning of your post you said...

Certainly private hospitals and private schools can offer better services, but not for the price that the public system offers.

Quite frankly, I was pleased as punch when I used an American hospital. It was fast for starters. I don't mind paying more to be treated quicker.

Where you see a lower cost in public health care, I see the effects of that in time of treatment and quality of service. That is of course here in Ontario. Not enough Doctors, due to salary caps. Not enough nurses because the guy in the big office needs to have a big desk and so on.

When it's a private firm with a big desk, in a big office, that's their folly. When it's a publicly funded firm, no. That money is ours.

The experience of the USA and other nations shows that this simply does not work very well so far as the average citizen is concerned.
That sounds like propaganda. I've never had an issue with getting excellent care from a private hospital in the States. Ever.

BTW why don't you let Lone Wolf speak for himself?
That's exactly what I said, is it not.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
One thing I could see as far as natural monopolies go, which usually includes public utilities, would be to wave anti-monopolization laws for those such consumers' co-ops so as to ensure that the consumer gets to vote for the board of directors. I'd also add a natural-monopoly tax which would apply to all natural monopolies that are not consumers' co-ops. This would thus give consumers' co-ops a double advantage over other corporations.

I think they should be publicly owned, pure and simple. Whichever level of government owns the utility can contract out services but power poles, gas lines and water mains are far too important to be left in the hands of those with a profit motive.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
Is there any point to that comment? I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating that anyone follow Cuba or North Korea.

No? Thats what the ultimate end of the state control leads to, just like the old USSR.

I don't dispute that there are some services that gov't needs to control but by and large the public sector is not as efficient as the private sector, because in the private sector there is a stronger motivation to find ways to become more efficient.

I think they should be publicly owned, pure and simple. Whichever level of government owns the utility can contract out services but power poles, gas lines and water mains are far too important to be left in the hands of those with a profit motive.

OK what about power poles and gas lines that only service industrial interests? I know of some energy projects in Northern Alberta that were generating their own power and in some cases selling excess power to the grids. If A_Random_Energy_Company needs to run powerlines and poles to service a development in the boonies, does that mean the gov't should have to build it? Does that mean the gov't should take it over as soon as someone decides they want to live there permanently? That path essentially leads to nationalizing everything.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
5,247
37
48
74
Ottawa ,Canada
China ,
Oh yeah? Many -most bureaucrats are also shareholders . But what do you know , you're just a bookkeeper
JLM
Where do you get that? You don't make a lot of sense at the best of times, but I had to respond to this display of idiocy. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
Yep, when it comes to shareholders vs. bureaucrats, bureaucrats lose in my books.

ok let's go slowly ..."loose in my books....
" you're just a bookkeeper.

It's just like...... a joke .
 
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Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
1
18
Alberta
Those are all luxuries.

No. There is a classification of luxury but these things are not luxuries. I.E., the difference between a 1972 Honda, a necessity for traveling in our highway nation and arriving to work, and a 2010 Ferrari. It's so much a necessity that in certain cities there are programs at the moment to supply automobiles to the working poor.

These are all components of the means of subsistence for workers to reproduce and perform their jobs. Amusingly, the internet in itself can actually assist in reproduction of the workforce (see dating sites) but on the job it's otherwise a necessity these days to have access to the internet.

Of course you can disagree but that would simply make you a reactionary who probably believes anything beyond simple rags is luxury because our predecessors didn't have anything better.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,888
126
63
I think they should be publicly owned, pure and simple. Whichever level of government owns the utility can contract out services but power poles, gas lines and water mains are far too important to be left in the hands of those with a profit motive.
Like the Koehler brothers in Walkerton. Fine civil servants them.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
18
The government does few things better than the private sector, but I do believe there are a few. I am one who believes that the government should oversee the delivery of healthcare for example.....though that is not to say that the private sector should not be allowed in. To suggest though that the private sector runs up the prices, this is nonsense. The only time this could be seen as true is when the government subsidizes something so as to deliver it at sub market prices and when the private sector eventually takes it over it brings the prices back to market value. This is not often a bad thing though.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
OK what about power poles and gas lines that only service industrial interests?

They are no different than the water line that runs from the street to your house. It only serves you so it should belong to you. Usually, it is either a property line or a meter that decides ownership. If a private company wants to run their own gas line, the should be allowed just like you can run a gas line from your house to your garage. Once the lines leave private property and enter public then they should be public property. Keep in mind, I'm talking about service lines. A gas pipeline, for example, that is used simply to transfer product can be privately owned. Municipal governments get tax dollars from that.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
1
18
Alberta
The government does few things better than the private sector, but I do believe there are a few. I am one who believes that the government should oversee the delivery of healthcare for example.....though that is not to say that the private sector should not be allowed in. To suggest though that the private sector runs up the prices, this is nonsense. The only time this could be seen as true is when the government subsidizes something so as to deliver it at sub market prices and when the private sector eventually takes it over it brings the prices back to market value. This is not often a bad thing though.

The military was one thing that was ran decently but in recent times, in the "Peacekeeping age", has become an institution of overpaid professional soldiers who reak of militarism and consider themselves better than the other 30 million Canadians in the country.