News Flash: God is Dead

[Dexter Sinister]

Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo

Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....

God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....

I take quite the opposite view: with god, assuming he has the characteristics usually ascribed to him, nothing matters. He knows how it's all going to work out, and there's nothing we can do to change it. The rules of human societies reflect common human needs and experiences, rules we have invented in order to facilitate our lives as social creatures dependent on one another. Religious justifications for them are merely post hoc rationalizations. We make the rules and must define our own purposes and find our own meanings. God, in my view, most likely does not exist, if he does he does not have the characteristics usually ascribed to him by religious belief systems, and is neither necessary nor useful.

 

[Tonington]

I don't want a universe created out of nothing, can you work the same magic to make gold?
Remember our politicians can turn a universe of plenty into nothing but that doesn't mean they do miralces. If God is dead as some say, then he must have existed.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.

What you or I want is inconsequential. Gods did exist, as our human minds created them. The only creationism that makes any sense at all is the desire humans have for explaining everything. In the absence of plausibility, we conjure up an explanation, veiled and mysterious, as mysterious as our existential crisis would allow. That is to believe in nothing. That is the leap of faith.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I don't want a universe created out of nothing

Why not? What you want doesn't enter into it, we have to go where the evidence leads. And really, what's the practical difference between natural processes creating it out of effectively nothing, and some deity doing the same thing by divine decree? I don't see that one's any easier to believe than the other, though the former does have the virtue of not having to deal with where the deity came from. Most believers just dodge that one by saying the deity's always existed, but that doesn't solve anything. If we're going to make that claim, we might as well just claim that the universe has always existed in some form.

Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.

I think you might find those aren't the only options if you dig a little deeper.

 

[dancing-loon]

Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo

Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....

God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....

Thanks, Colpy, you said it, plain and simple!

I have a beautiful post in my mouse, and have been looking around to find an appropriate spot to set it down..... it might as well be right here!

It is called...

Little angels

http://greatdanepro.com/Little Angels/index.htm

Please, help keep this post alive for a while, so many get a chance to see and read it.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

If the G/god thingy actually existed, why doesn't he put on a show once in a while to keep the rubes and doubters in line? I mean, his supporters say he is everywhere, but s/he never seems to be anywhere. Isn't this a problem?

You see, the media should eliminate the religion section from their newspapers. There is no room any longer for religion in public discourse. Religion like ET and UFOs has no physical evidence. It is not true. Selling papers is no longer a good enough reason.

 

[Kreskin]

If there is one it probably doesn't look like a San Francisco hippie and it probably couldn't care less what people on Earth think about or do. God probably wouldn't think the same way people do, and would have much bigger fish to fry than winning some guy a baseball game. Managing super novas or collisions of galaxies would be more important than forgiving some guy kneeling in a church.

 

[look3467]

"If the G/god thingy actually existed......>>>dumpthemonarchy

That's a big "if", but not if one has faith in God!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

To boil down some salient observations;

God is man's invention.
He does as he's told (by goat herders writing "scripture" for the Book of Myths, to whatever political agenda the guy in the white dress and Gucci loafers in Rome has in mind.)

He may have been a murderous schizophrenic tyrant to the ignorant and superstitious but we have evolved him into a dear friend who with sufficient begging and cajoling will create you a miracle and extend the life of your Dodge Caravan transmission until at least payday.

He is still a useful tool for the excitable riffraff acting out for the news cameras, and after all "Allah is Great" does have nice ring to it.

He is a great boon to the economy and markets - I mean without the consumer gluttony attached to his birthday every year my stock portfolio would suffer terribly. Yours too!

And without a pliant god to fill up the day what would Red Deer rednecks do Sunday mornings? Polish the half-ton? I think not.

Best of all though, without a useful tool ,wars would become somewhat more boring; the first side to claim "God is on our side" would have to resort to somehwhat less traditional jingoism and that's always a headache.

 

[Scott Free]

Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo

I think with god nothing matters. Who really is god except a creator? Why should that make any difference? Why should we even care what he thinks? Sure he made us (if he exists) but so what? This question is why the religionists must invoke the fear of hell and the reward of heaven - that is the true meaning behind god: a carrot and a stick! That's all!

I have no need of a carrot nor a stick. My life is much better without either; god has no relevance to my life.

Yet without god everything matters. We become the true architects of our destiny. We need to work diligently for our civilization, to have children, to take care of the planet because suddenly, without god, it really does matter! There is no sky god that will rescue us and I prefer that!

If it turned out there was a god I would be sorely disappointed. My only hope, should that ever happen, is that he turns out to be a neutral creature that cares nothing about us.

I like being a man, an adult, and on my own. I wouldn't want anything to take that away or swoop in and save me!

I really think the god impulse in people is an impulse to stay irresponsible in a perpetual childhood. How sad! How pathetic!

Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....

God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....

And here you make my last point for me. Why is it that if there is no cosmic parent or "omega point" we should all start behaving like terrible children? Haven't we already had our childhoods; didn't we get over that? Don't we know by now that that doesn't serve our purpose?

It hardly matters if the religious would actually act as you suggest because a few years in prison would correct their behaviour; demonstrate to them that such activity isn't really in their best interest.

It's just a pity they didn't learn this truth in their formative years.

I have grown up and I'm a man now. I don't want a god; I don't want mother government; I don't want perpetual childhood - I have had my childhood and now I'm sick of it; now I want to be an adult - my own person and my own keeper!

 

[MikeyDB]

Scott Free

Good for you!

Despite the idea that "nothing matters if there isn't a god".... all the god-beliefs that have ever been used to manipulate mankind haven't brought closure to the primitive species of mankind. How long should it take for an omnipotent all-powerful creator-being to imbue a species with the reality of their own terminal effects through their behavior on the species planet and cosmos as a whole...?

If it hasn't "taken" in several thousand years....why does anyone believe that this moral and ethical absolutism exists?

Now that's naive....

 

[look3467]

I think with god nothing matters. Who really is god except a creator? Why should that make any difference? Why should we even care what he thinks? Sure he made us (if he exists) but so what? This question is why the religionists must invoke the fear of hell and the reward of heaven - that is the true meaning behind god: a carrot and a stick! That's all!
>>>Scott Free

Mankind was designed to seek God! God put into place conditions by where mankind through suffering had to find God on its own terms.

Look back at history and you will see the proof of what I just said. Mankind throughout all its existence has struggled with the god question, to such that it had to invent something to relate itself with.

For there was no knowledge of the true, universal loving God until a predetermined time in mankind's history did God choose to reveal Himself to us.

So, you will have a mountain of evidence against that Revelation, for it is easier to believe that God does not exist, then to believe that He does.

Since God gave mankind the ability to rule its own domain, mankind then has made shambles of its self, simply because it refuses to adhere to a higher power.

But, how can mankind be blamed, for it was not of it own making, but Gods making.

Therefore, it is up to God to save His own creation despite mankind's actions here on earth.

And of which He did, honorably, victoriously, graciously and unconditionally in Jesus.

Jesus had the God power within Him the day He was crucified to take Himself out of the equation and not have to suffer the pain of the cross.

But true to God's love, Jesus demonstrated not restraint, but complete love for the world, in that when He died, His kingdom begin in the pit of hell, where He went to visit them that knew not God, but instantly recognized Him when they got visited, giving them freedom to exit that holding place and ascend to heaven.

For as hard as it is for you to understand that, so is for even believers.

But I tell you right now without any hesitation, that God has paid the price for you and I, believer as well as unbeliever.

If living this life without a religious connection, and can live it with honor, honesty, love to wards your neighbor, then you will have done well, and your good works are taken in to account and rewarded, yet while you still live.

I would rather go through life believing that there is a God, rather than not, for I find comfort in Him without the realms of the religious.

I stand firm without any religious connection, and am solid on the rock of all ages, and that rock being a sure and tested foundation, that foundation is Jesus Christ.

May His love ever touch all the crevasses of your heart and give you peace, joy and comfort.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Despite the idea that "nothing matters if there isn't a god".... all the god-beliefs that have ever been used to manipulate mankind haven't brought closure to the primitive species of mankind. How long should it take for an omnipotent all-powerful creator-being to imbue a species with the reality of their own terminal effects through their behavior on the species planet and cosmos as a whole...?>>>MikeyDB

Closure? Yes, God has left no stone unturned in all His creation. Why suppose the word hell exists? Hell was a holding place designed to hold all souls in a suspended animation, or resting, if you will, until the appointed time of their visitation, by which they all would be freed to enter heaven, but not before the advent of the promised savior of the world came.

If you can understand the conditions mankind was placed in, without mankind's permission, you will see that the onus to save was Gods and not mankind's.

And God did comply with His promise to save us all from the peril He placed us in.

All that was done in order to give each one of us a taste of what it means to be as god, to rule our own lives as we see fit, without losing our place in heaven.

However, the struggle to find God and meaning, we must suffer through it, for only in suffering can love be born.

Jesus' kingdom started not here on earth, but in the pit of hell, where the first recipients of His love and forgiveness was demonstrated, when He bursts open the gates of hell and released all souls kept there from the very first soul ever to be born on earth.

Closure, yes, to every living soul ever born to mankind.

God surely is most gracious, wouldn't you say?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[MikeyDB]

So "Hell" didn't exist before "god" created this holding area?

Let me get this straight... To SAVE mankind god creates Hell.....

Talk about propaganda!

 

[look3467]

Hell as a place of fire and brimstone, is mankind's creative imagination.
God created it as a holding place, a place to rest those souls for future liberation.
That liberation came when Jesus visited them.

You see, God's design to give mankind free will came with a consequence of spiritual death.
That spiritual death had to be reversed by the graces of God to wards mankind, for mankind had/has no say so in that matter.

So, God saved them in a holding area to rescue them at a time appointed.

Scarem harem, is mankind's invention, though used in the bible as code names but meaning entirely different than what mankind imagines.

The fire of God is an all consuming fire, meaning, cleansing, meaning burning off the sin that besets mankind, and renders it clean as gold is refined in the furnace to become pure gold.

That furnace is this life! But His love saves us from our selves, or from our own destruction, meaning eternal annihilation.

So, the word says, what you sow, that shall you reap.

That is reality, and tested. Try stealing and see if your deeds don't get recompensed.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

You recall reading in the book of Genesis that the tree of life was with held from Adam and Eve?

That tree was introduced at an appointed time to mankind living and to those waiting in that holding place.

That tree of life is Jesus, who then is the savior of the whole world, for the curse of eternal death was placed on Him in ransom for all mankind.

Mankind needed saving, and God the creator can be the only one to save His own creation.

You my friend, have a friend in God, who paid to give you freedom to chose your own will, and still have access to the eternal existence forever.

Take advantage of it, for its free!

"Have not because ye ask not".

If I say I know Gods love and you don't, you think I am worth more than you in His eyes?

The answer is no, both of us are equally worth His sacrifice on the cross.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

"If the G/god thingy actually existed......>>>dumpthemonarchy

That's a big "if", but not if one has faith in God!

Peace>>>AJ

Definition of faith - beleiving what you know ain't true.

Mark Twain

 

[look3467]

Definition of faith - beleiving what you know ain't true.

Mark Twain

AJ's Definition of faith: Believing in what the human eye can not see but the heart eye can.

If I could physically see it, then why have faith?

If I know my car will start as soon as I turn the key, is that faith? No, I assume it will start, but sometimes it will not.

But faith in God is not seeing physically, but trusting spiritually from the heart that He is, and trusting that what He promised to do, I will hold to it.

I will stake my life on it in hope of those promises.

Now, I don't expect you to believe the same way, but if you did, then I'd be one to share joyously your faith in God.

But because you don't, I feel you are missing out on what I know and have experienced to be God's guiding hand in all my life's affairs.

I am one of the richest man on earth....... spiritually, in that I have Gods help in all things physical.

My life has been and is graciously been dealt with wonderful blessings of which I questioned God, why?

His answer, because I have had Him in my minds heart all my life, because of my parents unceasingly daily prayers.

I think my self unworthy of any thing from God, but He thought otherwise, so I am most humbly grateful, appreciative and full of thanks daily.

I live not by a set of laws, but by the love I have for God that drives me to live just.

If I do that, I fulfill the letter of the law, for with Jesus, I am a whole person, where once, I was not.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

You are obviously fully engaged in a fictional creation you believe to be true. Do enjoy!

 

[talloola]

AJ's
But because you don't, I feel you are missing out on what I know and have experienced to be God's guiding hand in all my life's affairs.

The only missing out I have had, was the first 12 years that made me follow blindly and
sometimes fearfully the rules and silly threats that the catholic religion forced upon
me, that, if I didn't behave in a certain way, I would go to hell. That, in my opinion is
child abuse.
The good part of that first 12 years, is that I do have knowledge of the
catholic religion, and my opinions are based on personal experience, and not ignorance,
and actual gathering of information throughout the years, and the ability to weigh one
with the other, and make an informed decision for my life.

If I do that, I fulfill the letter of the law, for with Jesus, I am a whole person, where once, I was not.
Good for you, be happy in what ever way you choose.

 

[look3467]

You are obviously fully engaged in a fictional creation you believe to be true. Do enjoy!

Thankyou mrgrumpy! I knew you had that goodness in you.

Peace>>>AJ