I have 100 times my rewards right here on earth and infinite blessings in the afterlife. How about you?
Nature, Nurture, or Choice?
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
We all do, or are you one of those that try to scare people into believing that our Blessed Father only loves "some" of his children?
Read the initial post. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I simply posted a parable, a portion of the scriptures. If that scares you, that's your problem. I have inner peace (although I am very f-uped.) I don't claim to be any better than you, just forgiven. Even the Jews put out a sacrifice Lamb at passover, what do you think it all means?
Probably the same way anyone would react when being 'pressured' to have sex. It matters not whether the person pressing sex is male, female, bi or gay - it is still pressure.
The question, "When did you choose to become heterosexual?" is a great way to help heterosexuals understand homosexuals.
I never chose to be heterosexual. I just was since I started to have sexual feelings. I have no idea how I ended up heterosexual, I just am. Having an open mind, I've considered what it would be like to have sex with another man. I don't consider homosexuality to be immoral, unnatural or wrong. I just noticed that any thoughts in that direction lead me to feeling nauseous and disturbed. So I have no interest in acting against my feelings. I suspect that's the way how some homosexuals feel about heterosexuality. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I'd be ok with a relationship with a group of bi-sexual women. In fact I have fantasied about it, regularly... probably like most heterosexual men. However, I'm in a long term stable rewarding monogamous relationship. Not all needs and desires can or should be pursued, especially if it would hurt someone else.
Regarding feelings vs actions. People can't choose their feelings. We just have them. However actions are a choice. Many homosexuals have had heterosexual relationships despite their homosexual feelings, as a result of societal pressure and expectations. I am aware of women who are fundamentally heterosexual, but they've chosen to enter a homosexual relationship, because they've had bad experiences with men. Some heterosexual men have probably also chosen to have gay sex, for similar reasons regarding women, although I don't know of any examples. Actions are choices. Feelings, our "nature", or who we are... is uncontrollable.
Regarding what is "natural". In nature I can find animal examples of heterosexuality, homosexuality, group sex, pedophilia, murder, cannibalism, coprogragy... pretty much every deviant, disgusting, destructive behavior known according to my morality. However just because something occurs in nature doesn't mean its something humans should do. Humans are capable of higher cognitive thought including empathy, morality and ethnics. That means we can chose not to do something, even though we desire it.
For example. Everyone has probably had an opportunity to steal, knowing that there was a low probability of getting caught. I know I have. Despite the temptation to act upon my desire, I chose not to act according to my desire, because of my ethics. Even if I got away with it, I'd know I did something wrong, probably hurt someone and it would bother me. My conscience would torture me. However when I return a lost object to the rightful owner, I am rewarded by a clear conscience. I feel great inside, because of my personal morality.
Regarding morality or a moral code. Everyone has their own personal moral code or system of morality based on their personal philosophy, religion, culture... When it comes to sex between consenting adults, or what a rational person does to themselves, I wouldn't presume to impose my moral code on others. When it comes to one person harming another, then I would presume to impose my moral code on others. I would also expect society to back me up and support my moral code.
Regarding pedophilia. I suspect pedophiles don't choose to desire children. I suspect pedophiles like heterosexuals and homosexuals just are. However their actions are a choice and if they choose to harm a child then their actions are a moral failure with serious consequences for the child. Pedophilia is illegal because of society's obligation to protect the vulnerable (children) from harm. A pedophile's desire for sexual gratification is less important that the child's right to protection and society's obligation to protect the child. It has to be this way or else our society would end up pretty messed up. So while I believe a pedophile can't help the way they feel, they must control their actions, or else face the wrath of society.
I never chose to be heterosexual. I just was since I started to have sexual feelings. I have no idea how I ended up heterosexual, I just am. Having an open mind, I've considered what it would be like to have sex with another man. I don't consider homosexuality to be immoral, unnatural or wrong. I just noticed that any thoughts in that direction lead me to feeling nauseous and disturbed. So I have no interest in acting against my feelings. I suspect that's the way how some homosexuals feel about heterosexuality. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I'd be ok with a relationship with a group of bi-sexual women. In fact I have fantasied about it, regularly... probably like most heterosexual men. However, I'm in a long term stable rewarding monogamous relationship. Not all needs and desires can or should be pursued, especially if it would hurt someone else.
Regarding feelings vs actions. People can't choose their feelings. We just have them. However actions are a choice. Many homosexuals have had heterosexual relationships despite their homosexual feelings, as a result of societal pressure and expectations. I am aware of women who are fundamentally heterosexual, but they've chosen to enter a homosexual relationship, because they've had bad experiences with men. Some heterosexual men have probably also chosen to have gay sex, for similar reasons regarding women, although I don't know of any examples. Actions are choices. Feelings, our "nature", or who we are... is uncontrollable.
Regarding what is "natural". In nature I can find animal examples of heterosexuality, homosexuality, group sex, pedophilia, murder, cannibalism, coprogragy... pretty much every deviant, disgusting, destructive behavior known according to my morality. However just because something occurs in nature doesn't mean its something humans should do. Humans are capable of higher cognitive thought including empathy, morality and ethnics. That means we can chose not to do something, even though we desire it.
For example. Everyone has probably had an opportunity to steal, knowing that there was a low probability of getting caught. I know I have. Despite the temptation to act upon my desire, I chose not to act according to my desire, because of my ethics. Even if I got away with it, I'd know I did something wrong, probably hurt someone and it would bother me. My conscience would torture me. However when I return a lost object to the rightful owner, I am rewarded by a clear conscience. I feel great inside, because of my personal morality.
Regarding morality or a moral code. Everyone has their own personal moral code or system of morality based on their personal philosophy, religion, culture... When it comes to sex between consenting adults, or what a rational person does to themselves, I wouldn't presume to impose my moral code on others. When it comes to one person harming another, then I would presume to impose my moral code on others. I would also expect society to back me up and support my moral code.
Regarding pedophilia. I suspect pedophiles don't choose to desire children. I suspect pedophiles like heterosexuals and homosexuals just are. However their actions are a choice and if they choose to harm a child then their actions are a moral failure with serious consequences for the child. Pedophilia is illegal because of society's obligation to protect the vulnerable (children) from harm. A pedophile's desire for sexual gratification is less important that the child's right to protection and society's obligation to protect the child. It has to be this way or else our society would end up pretty messed up. So while I believe a pedophile can't help the way they feel, they must control their actions, or else face the wrath of society.
Earth As One:
Regarding feelings vs actions.
People can't choose their feelings.
We just have them.
However actions are a choice.
That means we can chose not to do something, even though we desire it.
Levanty:
I love your answer! Thank you.
Regarding feelings vs actions.
People can't choose their feelings.
We just have them.
However actions are a choice.
That means we can chose not to do something, even though we desire it.
Levanty:
I love your answer! Thank you.
No need when I have an infinite, all-knowing, almighty God on my side.
Gotta go now. Sorry to be a party-pooper but it's my hubby's b-day and I want to share an evening with him. Chow for now peeps.
And later he gets his birthday present. She stays quiet for the evening. The Good Lord works in mysterious ways.
He's praying for it to last for eternity, but he's secretly afraid he'll have to listen in the afterlife as well.
Men on average die 6 years ahead of their wife. They say a moment in Heaven is an eternity. A blessing for some. Not I.
I was just asking a question because no one has ever pressured me to have sex with them.
Some people are tying to fit it into the argument, not using natural relatively but generally for all people. These people need to define natural in this debate. Some have tried but those calling homosexual unnatural fled the debate declaring it semantics. Well, if they insist on using a specific word to describe something, and other people disagree on what that word means, they're gonna have to get into semantics.
RCS refuses to have this discussion. He wants to declare homosexuality unnatural and will only tolerate a certain level of criticism. If you read the thread, the kind of criticism he'll accept is clear. He only wants people to discuss an implied moral argument or homophobia in his arguments, so he can deny it and be a victim of unfair accusations. Even when people didn't make such implications, he still insisted on satisfying that persecution complex. Better criticism of his position caused him to leave.
Over the years, maybe we've gotten to viewing "natural" as something good, whereas it's just a term for something that coincides with Mother Nature. Homosexuality is definitely natural because as a matter of course it happens in most species. Whether it's normal or not is another argument. Natural doesn't necessarily mean normal.