NATO warned to start paying its bills
- Thread starter Locutus
- Start date
In what aspect? In Ukraine their original Russian plan was to annex the eastern section of the country along with the entire Black Sea coast. What they have managed so far is a tiny area of eastern Ukraine that is still disputed. Wars are expensive; even proxy wars and right now Russia is broke. You should also note that the Russia that Germany attacked in WW II was the USSR, a highly militarized nation with double its current population. Also Russia was fighting a defensive war against the Germans, a factor that worked in their favour for the first two years of the war.
Want to see how Canada ranks in NATO defence spending?
2011
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd spend less.
Why? Because the US says so? Military spending is useless. I'd change Canada's military to a self-defence force.
With trudOWE in power your wish will be granted. It may still be the ame % of GDP but the amount will be much lower.
When we never attacked anyone, everyone wanted to be like us and we didn't really even need defense.
Unlike now where after attacking in the mideast, our government is allowing the resulting unvetted potential terrorists into our country, where a defensive army is next to useless for prevention of terrorism.
Unlike now where after attacking in the mideast, our government is allowing the resulting unvetted potential terrorists into our country, where a defensive army is next to useless for prevention of terrorism.
They were squished like bugs by the Germans for the first couple of years of the war. It didn't help that the NKVD was purging the Russian officers, repeatedly. They re-invented themselves during the seiges of Stalingrad, Leningrad and damned close to Moscow after their infrastructure was in tatters. They were within an inch of defeat, at one point. Three years later, they were a superpower.
My point was that the modern Russia is much weaker than the old USSR. I don't see anything in your post to refute that.
They are tough and resilient. Admittedly, they are also as poor as church mice.
What I am noting is that the only real shooting wars the Russians have gotten into lately are the conflicts in Chechnya and Georgia in which they got their backsides kicked by much smaller forces. They eventually triumphed in both, but only after sending in huge numbers of troops against poorly armed opponents.
I haven't skimmed through all the responses, but what is going to happen if alll the defaulters don't pony up their allotted share? Really.
Russians will take over the world? The Chinese? Muzzies? Russian and Chinese Muzzies? Lots of chest thumping there, but similar to the UN, little bite.
Russians will take over the world? The Chinese? Muzzies? Russian and Chinese Muzzies? Lots of chest thumping there, but similar to the UN, little bite.
Those self purges are the reason why Finland was able to re-assert their independance... My Mumu and Papa had family fighting in that war...
Trudeau government capitulates to the demands of the Trump Administration
Canadians will be forced to spend more on military in the coming years to appease the Orange Bloat and his whinyness about countries not keeping up with the massive waste happening in the US and elsewhere.
Not one person ever asked ‘shouldn’t the US be spending less instead of everyone else keeping up with the waste?’
Nope … we’ll just do what we’re told.
Canada’s new defence policy today and here are the highlights:
Canadians will be forced to spend more on military in the coming years to appease the Orange Bloat and his whinyness about countries not keeping up with the massive waste happening in the US and elsewhere.
Not one person ever asked ‘shouldn’t the US be spending less instead of everyone else keeping up with the waste?’
Nope … we’ll just do what we’re told.
Canada’s new defence policy today and here are the highlights:
- A 70% increase in defence spending over the next 10 years
- A staggering 62 billion dollar increase over the next 20 years
- An increase in the number of fighter jets to be purchased from 65 (under Harper) to 88
- An increase in personnel in both the regular and reserve forces
The Trudeau Liberals did not campaign on, and have no mandate for, significant increases in the defence budget. There has been no change in the international security environment since their election to justify such astronomical increases. The only change has been the election of Donald Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/07/canada-increase-military-spending-nato
Well don't expect those NATO countries who meet their spending targets to defend you whenever such thing is needed.
NATO is a con game that the US played for decades. It placed several million well-equipped troops on the doorstep of the USSR for a fraction of the cost it would have cost the US to maintain troops there. The Dumpster, of course, does not realize this, and apparently neither do you.
NATO was hardly a con game. Its mandate was to form an alliance should the Soviet Union decide to act aggressively. It was right after WWII. Many western countries were concerned about the USSR's intentions in the aftermath of the war.
Its role has evolved, but like many organizations that have been around for a while, it needs a good shake up from time to time to modernize.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato
Its role has evolved, but like many organizations that have been around for a while, it needs a good shake up from time to time to modernize.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato
Adding to the tensions, Trump has been hammering Europe’s NATO members over their skimpy contributions to the alliance and its arms programs. But here is another example of Trump’s poor understanding of world affairs.
NATO is not a business partnership. The alliance, founded in 1949, was designed to shore up war-battered Europe and form a united front against the very real threat of Soviet invasion. Today, the very successful NATO alliance, 70% funded by the US, remains the most concrete expression of America’s geopolitical domination of western Europe.
As the recently deceased thinker Zbigniew Brezezinski aptly put it to me, Europe provides strategic ‘stepping-stones’ to the expansion of US influence into Eurasia through NATO. The alliance is not an equal partnership, it’s the primary tool for enforcing US power in Europe.
Now that the Soviet Union is gone, there is no real military threat to Europe. A majority of Europe’s tax-payers don’t want to pay more to reinforce NATO. Or worse, see it become a sort of foreign legion for the US to use in its imperial ventures in the Mideast, Africa and West Asia.
Germany was dragooned by the US into sending troops to Afghanistan, but over the protests of most of its citizens and other Europeans. Canada faces a similar problem. As the late German defense minister, Franz Josef Strauss so colorfully put it, ‘we won’t be spear carriers for America’s atomic knights.’
https://ericmargolis.com/2017/06/trump-to-germany-go-jump-in-the-rhine/
NATO is not a business partnership. The alliance, founded in 1949, was designed to shore up war-battered Europe and form a united front against the very real threat of Soviet invasion. Today, the very successful NATO alliance, 70% funded by the US, remains the most concrete expression of America’s geopolitical domination of western Europe.
As the recently deceased thinker Zbigniew Brezezinski aptly put it to me, Europe provides strategic ‘stepping-stones’ to the expansion of US influence into Eurasia through NATO. The alliance is not an equal partnership, it’s the primary tool for enforcing US power in Europe.
Now that the Soviet Union is gone, there is no real military threat to Europe. A majority of Europe’s tax-payers don’t want to pay more to reinforce NATO. Or worse, see it become a sort of foreign legion for the US to use in its imperial ventures in the Mideast, Africa and West Asia.
Germany was dragooned by the US into sending troops to Afghanistan, but over the protests of most of its citizens and other Europeans. Canada faces a similar problem. As the late German defense minister, Franz Josef Strauss so colorfully put it, ‘we won’t be spear carriers for America’s atomic knights.’
https://ericmargolis.com/2017/06/trump-to-germany-go-jump-in-the-rhine/
By the 1980s NATO had evolved into a US dominated organization for intimidating the USSR and it still plays that role in regard to modern Russia. Not only did NATO vastly outspend the USSR and its allies, but NATO's strategy of "Forward Defence" rather than defence in depth created a very aggressive posture so far as the Warsaw Pact was concerned. As I said, NATO provided the USA with a very cheap bulwark against the USSR, allowing it to focus much of its military spending on other areas, such as building up its fleets of aircraft carriers to project a global presence; one that the USSR did not have the resources to challenge. If the US chooses to waste trillions on defence spending that is its business, just as it is Canada's business not to follow suit.
Didn't Trump get the memo that NATO needs all the Mid-east oil in their possession before they can hope to start paying down their national debt. If being a NATO member is so wonderful why are all the countries broke beyond it being fixable?? Add it up for all 29 countries if you don't believe the hype.