NATO & the Trump Factor

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
I think that assisting and absorbing refugees from war torn countries that usa has destroyed is a military budget.
You break it, you fix it isnt in Ameras sense of morals.
the sad reality is that we have given up ever being an honest broker or peace keeper in order to join the rodeo for the war on terror.

there was no vote. We just turned our backs on everything we had ever fought for - which was largely the right to decide for ourselves when and where we went to war.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Trump threatens to reduce us military spending in Nato unless everyone starts buying more stuff from him.

My response would be good. Reduce your military spending.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Trump threatens to reduce us military spending in Nato unless everyone starts buying more stuff from him.

My response would be good. Reduce your military spending.

US military spending is pretty outrageous. The Americans use it as a method of stimulating and subsidizing sectors of their economy (without the shameful badge of "Socialism" being slapped on the practise). What better way to distribute money around the realm than by wrapping it in the flag? As usual, Trump has not thought the problem out.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
The US spent $686 billion on defense last year — here's how the other NATO countries stack up

President Donald Trump wants the 28 other NATO countries to spend more on defense.
The military alliance will meet in Brussels next week.
Trump has frequently dressed down NATO counterparts and threatened to reduce U.S. military support if allies do not increase spending.
As of June 2017, only six nations met NATO spending standards: the U.S., Greece, the United Kingdom, Estonia, Poland and Romania.
The world's most powerful military alliance will convene in Brussels next week – and President Donald Trump will be pushing the 28 other NATO members to spend more money.
"I'm going to tell NATO, ‘You gotta start paying your bills. The United States is not going to take care of everything,' ” Trump said Thursday during a rally in Great Falls, Montana.
In 2017, the U.S. accounted for 51.1 percent of NATO's combined GDP and 71.7 percent of its combined defense expenditure. In short, the U.S. contributed more funds to NATO than Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom and Canada combined.
Meanwhile, the U.S. spent $685.9 billion on defense.
 

NZDoug

Council Member
Jul 18, 2017
1,894
31
48
Big Bay, Awhitu, New Zealand
Eisenhauer Warning
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.
It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.
We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat.
We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.
This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.
This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Trumps threat - to cut back American spending on NATO - is exactly what they should do.

NATO has been rendered pointless by world events Russia is no longer a super power. Russia is a country that cannot defeat the Ukraine - which has no military.

The only threat Russia poses is their internet thuggery.

Militarily they are laughable.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
Trump threatens to reduce us military spending in Nato unless everyone starts buying more stuff from him.

My response would be good. Reduce your military spending.
Mine too. Don't respond to extortion. Which is what he is doing.

"art of the deal" = extortion , bribery,, pay offs, cheating, and other underhanded tactics.

It is time for the world to become less dependant on the US for a variety of things.

The US is behavioural a rogue nation. (with stockpiles of WMD) Making it the most dangerous on the planet.
 
Last edited:

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Eisenhauer Warning
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.
It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.
We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat.
We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.
This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.
This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

Yeah but Eisenhower was a fuctard libtard pinko socialist Dem ... er Republican Five Star General.

LOOZAH!

Winnahs don't go to war!

He was a LOOZAH!!

...like McCain.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
I ike Ike.
The Marshall plan was benevolent.
Now, its U.S./Israeli Axis of Evil in reality.
SAD.

The modern Republican has swung so far to the right wing extreme, the'd think that Ike was a Commie Socialist. He was nothing of the sort, of course but American politics have become so skewed that they no longer remember their core values.
 

NZDoug

Council Member
Jul 18, 2017
1,894
31
48
Big Bay, Awhitu, New Zealand
In 1948, George Kennan, State Department Director of Policy Planning, noted that the United States then possessed about 50% of the worlds wealth but only 6.3% of its population.
The challenge facing US policy makers, he believed, was "to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity with the positive detriment to our national security".
Today, many decades later, Kennans position of disparity persists, somewhat diminished but still leaving Americans in a remarkably advantageous position.
With less than 5% of the population, the United States so controls 25% of global net worth as of 2016.

With modern communications and spread of knowledge throughout the Internet has shown our “heros” feet are made of clay.
I was born in 46, (Toronto General) and I beleived in truth , justice and the American way.
Now, reality show Nurembug Was Trials, America has supported tyrants and dictators, started multiple wars, once the.greatest crime.

This is what the NAZIs were executed for.
Every day, more and more, it appears that everything I. Believed in was bullshit.

Ive quoted 50% 6.3% of Americans stuff from a book called “Americas War for the Greater Middle East”.
By Andrew J. Bacevich
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
In 1948, George Kennan, State Department Director of Policy Planning, noted that the United States then possessed about 50% of the worlds wealth but only 6.3% of its population.
The challenge facing US policy makers, he believed, was "to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity with the positive detriment to our national security".
Today, many decades later, Kennans position of disparity persists, somewhat diminished but still leaving Americans in a remarkably advantageous position.
With less than 5% of the population, the United States so controls 25% of global net worth as of 2016.

With modern communications and spread of knowledge throughout the Internet has shown our “heros” feet are made of clay.
I was born in 46, (Toronto General) and I beleived in truth , justice and the American way.
Now, reality show Nurembug Was Trials, America has supported tyrants and dictators, started multiple wars, once the.greatest crime.

This is what the NAZIs were executed for.
Every day, more and more, it appears that everything I. Believed in was bullshit.

Ive quoted 50% 6.3% of Americans stuff from a book called “Americas War for the Greater Middle East”.
By Andrew J. Bacevich
... and you know, that tactic of re-building their former enemies and giving a leg up to the poorest of the poor made the US even stronger and richer. The top 0.01% want it all, though. Rich sociopaths may just destroy Western Civilization.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
The US spent $686 billion on defense last year — here's how the other NATO countries stack up




The problem with that article is the use of the word "contribute"as in:



In 2017, the U.S. accounted for 51.1 percent of NATO's combined GDP and 71.7 percent of its combined defense expenditure. In short, the U.S. contributed more funds to NATO than Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom and Canada combined.

The point is, that it was not a contribution, it was just out-of-control US military spending as usual. The fact that most other NATO nations have sensible military budgets seems to completely escape Trump and the various US militarists. Europe doesn't face any serious military threat from anyone. Currently Germany, France, and Britain more than match Russia's military spending and on a per capita basis even Canada outspends Russia almost two to one.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
Tell Poland, Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. that Russia is no threat. Looks to me that Putin is trying to restore the old USSR policy on world influence for 2 reasons that I can see 1) Make Russia relevant in todays world by showing strength and influence and 2) create trade partners to circumvent sanctions put on Russia by the UN

Trump is in Trudeau's head ahead of the NATO meeting making optical excuses to not pay more on defense.

Trudeau set to extend Canada's leadership role in NATO's Latvia mission

The Liberal government plans to extend its NATO leadership role in Latvia for several years, CBC News has learned.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will "deliver a strong message" of solidarity during his bilateral visit to the Baltic state, said several sources from Defence, Foreign Affairs and other government departments.
Canada's mission leadership role faces a self-imposed government deadline of spring 2019. It is now expected to continue for at least another three years.

Announcing the extension might serve the Liberals well in the current political climate.
Trudeau's statement on Canada's "key contribution" will be delivered just ahead of what's expected to be a contentious meeting of NATO leaders in Brussels July 11-12. U.S. President Donald Trump has already shaken things up in advance of the meeting by preemptively chastising allies who don't meet the alliance's defence spending targets.
Canada's 450 troops form the nucleus of a multinational battle group in Latvia that includes soldiers from Albania, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy and Spain.
NATO military planners anticipate the deployment of battle groups in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania — intended to stave off Russian incursions in the region — could last a decade and they have been quietly preparing for that possibility.

A message of solidarity

At the same time, Canada has been securing acknowledgements from its partner nations that they are prepared to stick around, said a confidential Department of Defence source.
Trudeau will address Canadian troops and soldiers from those other nations during his visit. He and Latvian Prime Minister Maris Kucinskis are expected to emphasize unity in the face of Russian interference in eastern Europe, including the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Canada has often been criticized for not meeting NATO's two per cent defence spending target and officials have been bracing for a Trump tirade, given the U.S. president's frequent, sometimes personal attacks on Trudeau.
The alliance summit in Brussels will be the first time the two men have met face-to-face since the acrimonious G7 summit in Charlevoix, Quebec last month.

At a rally this week in Great Falls, Montana, Trump delivered a clear message: "I'm going to tell NATO, 'You gotta start paying your bills. The United States is not going to take care of everything.'"
Justin Massie, a professor of political science at the Université du Québec à Montréal, said extending Canada's mission is a gesture that likely will be be lost on Trump.
"It's probably not going to satisfy President Trump, not whatsoever," Massie said. "President Trump has a very different view of NATO, a very much transactional view of NATO where he seeks money from allies in exchange for American security."
Canada spends approximately 1.29 per cent of its gross domestic product on defence — a far cry from NATO's two per cent goal.
Even under the Liberal government's new defence strategy, which will see a 70 per cent hike in allocations over the next few years, that ratio is only expected to reach 1.4 per cent of GDP.
Both the previous Conservative government and the current Liberal one have insisted that showing up with troops and equipment is just as important a measure as spending.
The Department of Defence argued in a recent report that Canada has little choice but to extend its presence in Latvia, which costs taxpayers $134 million per year.

Trump remains the wild card

The result of pulling out next year would be "closing doors, letting down old and new friends, wasting human and political capital, along with the political-military credibility Canada's commitment to the [enhanced forward presence] has generated," said the report by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.
One of the authors, Joel Sokolsky, said the fallout of a withdrawal from Latvia in the current political climate would be harsh.
"It would reinforce the perception, which isn't quite correct, of Canada being (a) laggard," said Sokolsky, a professor at the Centre for International and Defence Policy at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
He said a decision to bail on a leadership role would not only damage the alliance but Canada-U.S.relations as well — relations which are already under severe strain because of the looming trade war and the Trump administration's imposition of tariffs.

The report warns, however, that the calculation could change — depending on how Trump handles the NATO summit.
Defence experts have raised the prospect of the U.S. pulling back militarily from Europe, a notion officials in Washington have attempted to downplay.
Even so, Trump could make decisions that would force Canada to re-evaluate its position.
"For Canada and Europe, the most worrisome possibility is U.S. disengagement — a spectre raised by President Trump's behaviour at the Singapore Summit with North Korea, where he offered to sacrifice U.S.-Korean military exercises while floating a general pull-back of U.S. Forces," said the report.
"If that happens along NATO's frontier with Russia, Canada would have to consider whether to recommit alongside European allies to show its faith in NATO — but without America's supporting presence. That, in itself, would raise questions about the very future of NATO."
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
If you think that Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia are in no danger, ask a Ukrainian. True, the Ukraine was not yet part of NATO and the Russian move was pre-emptive to that but with a US President that may not support NATO in stopping the Russians "taking back" what Russia may convince Trump is already theirs (see Crimea), this is a potentially dangerous deployment that our army is on. The Pax Americana appears to be coming to an end merely because of Trump's personal opinions. His Generals and Admirals must be beside themselves. What are they to do when the commander in chief is off his rocker?
 
Last edited:

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
We can't be in a military alliance with any country run by or in the manner of Trump.

Its really not complicated.

NO Canadian military should be going in harms way on the say so of President Poop for Brains.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
We can't be in a military alliance with any country run by or in the manner of Trump.

Its really not complicated.

NO Canadian military should be going in harms way on the say so of President Poop for Brains.

Our military might be in harm's way more often precisely because President Poop for Brains is disengaging the USA from Western defences.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,686
14,375
113
Low Earth Orbit
The point is, that it was not a contribution, it was just out-of-control US military spending as usual
this is based upon guessing?

Our military might be in harm's way more often precisely because President Poop for Brains is disengaging the USA from Western defences.

We have two ongoing operations in E. Europe.

Unifier and Reassurance.