Minimum wage in Alberta going to $15 an hour.

Ludlow

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I've always thought working hard was important but working smart is more important.
Smart is a situational word sometimes. Individual circumstances which of course vary greatly determine the relevance of that particular generalization.

and now if you'll excuse me i'm wore completely out and need to lay up.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Smart is a situational word sometimes. Individual circumstances which of course vary greatly determine the relevance of that particular generalization.

and now if you'll excuse me i'm wore completely out and need to lay up.

Just thinking of a situation that was brought to my attention lately. My son works periodically for a moving company. Sometimes he's moving heavy objects like pianos. Sometimes the boss thinks if the distance to move is short like under a hundred feet or so, he should just pick it up and carry it. The son thinks it would be smarter to spend 5 minutes securing it to a dolly, possibly saving damage to his back and breaking the piano :) :)
 

Tecumsehsbones

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2/3 would work for me.

I've been wondering if earning more is as important as learning to live on less.
I agree. The great dream of every parent is that the kids will learn to live on less. "Son, when I was your age I made $32,000 a year. But thanks to decades of hard work and careful planning, we've driven wages down to $18,000. We did it all for you and your generation."
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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I've always thought working hard was important but working smart is more important.

Working smart is working hard. Why do people always assume that working out your grey matter is any less strenuous than working out your muscles? lol.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Working smart is working hard. Why do people always assume that working out your grey matter is any less strenuous than working out your muscles? lol.
I don't think that's what "work smart, not hard" means. To me it always meant "find ways to accomplish more with the resources available to you."
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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I don't think that's what "work smart, not hard" means. To me it always meant "find ways to accomplish more with the resources available to you."

Which involves putting some thought into it, no?

One can flex their muscles picking up rock A and moving it to place B over and over again, that's hard work. Putting some thought into the process one can, sometimes anyway, find a way to accomplish the same or even more of the task through other means. This involves exercising your grey matter a little, also hard work, to reduce the stress on your body (in this example), the less stress on your body, the less tiring thus enabling more to get done, which also makes it working smart.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Which involves putting some thought into it, no?
Yes, that's the "smart" part.

One can flex their muscles picking up rock A and moving it to place B over and over again, that's hard work. Putting some thought into the process one can, sometimes anyway, find a way to accomplish the same or even more of the task through other means. This involves exercising your grey matter a little, also hard work, to reduce the stress on your body (in this example), the less stress on your body, the less tiring thus enabling more to get done, which also makes it working smart.
Right. Like when you're moving rocks, move them downhill wherever possible. Gravity can be your friend. You still work hard (moving the rocks) but by working smart, you can work less hard and accomplish the same, or conversely, work equally hard and accomplish more.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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"Grey matter" doesn't get slipped disks! :)

I followed this sys-sophistic reasoning to a point; however, suppose one's task were to roll the rock uphill. What then?

Back to Big Macs. How would Shakespeare react to the inexorable demise of his favourite fast food if $15 CDN per hour were to become the minimum wage? Sadly, I suspect.
Quote:
"Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second guessiness and mere oblivion,
Sans bun, sans meat, sans taste, sans everything."
 

XF1

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May 2, 2015
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$15 per hour does not go far enough; a "minimum wage" does not address fundamental structural problems within the system. Instead of just moving the sliding scale of what constitutes the "working poor", we really need to put an end to poverty and have those normally shut out of the economy take a seat at the table and also provide them with every opportunity to become "job creators" themselves. Enough of this trickle-down crud.
 

gore0bsessed

Time Out
Oct 23, 2011
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$15 per hour does not go far enough; a "minimum wage" does not address fundamental structural problems within the system. Instead of just moving the sliding scale of what constitutes the "working poor", we really need to put an end to poverty and have those normally shut out of the economy take a seat at the table and also provide them with every opportunity to become "job creators" themselves. Enough of this trickle-down crud.
...and you can't get rid of poverty until the mentality that all people must find employment to survive is eradicated.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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$15 per hour does not go far enough; a "minimum wage" does not address fundamental structural problems within the system. Instead of just moving the sliding scale of what constitutes the "working poor", we really need to put an end to poverty and have those normally shut out of the economy take a seat at the table and also provide them with every opportunity to become "job creators" themselves. Enough of this trickle-down crud.
North Korea has the system you want.
 

XF1

New Member
May 2, 2015
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...and you can't get rid of poverty until the mentality that all people must find employment to survive is eradicated.

Agreed. Not everyone wants to work. Lots of folks have other things they'd like to do that they find more interesting or edifying than trading their labor for money - they ought not be punished for that by being forced into doing something against their will and then on top of that have THEIR labor price-tagged arbitrarily by someone else at rock-bottom.

I find it funny that those who usually scream the loudest about "freedom" and "liberty" often have little problem in seeing those at the lower end of the economic scale, those who have no lust for gold, forced by the system into working in jobs that they hate against their will and paid a wage they also had little to no say in just so that they can survive within a system they had little to no say in creating. It's a sociopathic world.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Agreed. Not everyone wants to work. Lots of folks have other things they'd like to do that they find more interesting or edifying than trading their labor for money - they ought not be punished for that by being forced into doing something against their will and then on top of that have THEIR labor price-tagged arbitrarily by someone else at rock-bottom.

I find it funny that those who usually scream the loudest about "freedom" and "liberty" often have little problem in seeing those at the lower end of the economic scale, those who have no lust for gold, forced by the system into working in jobs that they hate against their will and paid a wage they also had little to no say in just so that they can survive within a system they had little to no say in creating. It's a sociopathic world.
So write up your plan and put it before the people. See if they support it.

Good luck with that.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Agreed. Not everyone wants to work. Lots of folks have other things they'd like to do that they find more interesting or edifying than trading their labor for money - they ought not be punished for that by being forced into doing something against their will and then on top of that have THEIR labor price-tagged arbitrarily by someone else at rock-bottom.

I'm not quite sure what sort of system you are advocating here. The idea that hard work and ingenuity should be rewarded proportionately is certainly right of center in the political realm, but anathema to left leaning social/economic equality. The philosophical arguments fall short when faced with the realities of greed and laziness which, while not exactly pervasive in society are still forces strong enough to screw up a well meaning system.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
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2/3 would work for me.

I've been wondering if earning more is as important as learning to live on less. The amount of waste I see is just mind boggling. I don't know if it's true or not (I hope it's a gross exaggeration) but a few months ago it was reported on the news that 40% of groceries in Canada end up in the garbage can. That is disgusting. Who is accepting that?

Everyone's accepting that.

Tell me where that garbage can is.

We've been gardening and shopping as smart as possible for years.

Got most everything we NEED,

What more ken ya ask fer, eh.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Even hunters and gatherers have to hunt and gather or they starve. To live without labour is like training one's mule to get by without eating. A saving on feed but, alas, a loss in mules.