Michael Mann: Harper's War on Science

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Hmmmm... every climate change consensus seems to gravitate to how much money western nations need to pay the world to battle climate change.

Mitigation isn't the same thing as the physical science...

We should be spending the money to clean up science not the atmosphere.

Yes, the higher than normal cancer rates in Northern Nova Scotia could easily be fixed if the science were changed...
 

EagleSmack

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It's not about money....







Mitigation isn't the same thing as the physical science...


Oh give me a break. Money drives this scam. You have this bizarre belief that these climate scientists are above all human nature. The drive is always about money... ALWAYS.
 

EagleSmack

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All you have to do is believe and all your carbon sins will be forgiven.


I love how finally MF explained that individual carbon foot prints are no longer considered a problem.


In other words the insanely wealthy and wasteful can use as much resources as they please and no longer need to feel guilt about it. People like Gore and Suzuki and all of the other billionaires got tired of being "part" of the problem and changed the rules to exclude them.


That f*ing d-bag in charge of Apple tells the world "Deniers" need not invest in Apple as they are not wanted. Apple has been green washing and bullying green groups for years. Their products are luxuries and completely unsustainable.
 

captain morgan

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Zero, the scientific results won't depend on your bank account activity. This belief of yours may be some form of psychosis.

It's the proposed solution that is dependent on transferring wealth from developed countries to non-developed.


I love how finally MF explained that individual carbon foot prints are no longer considered a problem.


In other words the insanely wealthy and wasteful can use as much resources as they please and no longer need to feel guilt about it. People like Gore and Suzuki and all of the other billionaires got tired of being "part" of the problem and changed the rules to exclude them.

Ain't it a hoot?

The solution to AGW works only when is mandated by government... Apparently, a grass roots solution simply does not exist - apparently, it's an impossibility.

Funny how that logic conveniently allows the various hypocrites to keep-on burning gas, pitching all their plastics and buying nice 12-cyl busses to drive their 1.2 kids 3 blocks to school


That f*ing d-bag in charge of Apple tells the world "Deniers" need not invest in Apple as they are not wanted. Apple has been green washing and bullying green groups for years. Their products are luxuries and completely unsustainable.

Hadn't heard of that circumstance.

I guess that he will be learning the lesson that corporate entities should always do their best to stay away from politics and pivotal social issues.

He can rethink his words when he's let go by the Board at Apple
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Oh give me a break. Money drives this scam. You have this bizarre belief that these climate scientists are above all human nature. The drive is always about money... ALWAYS.

Give you a break for what? Lame conspiracy and no evidence of fraud? Dream on.

Only the USDA existed when Arrhenius published the first calculations of an enhanced greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic greenhouse emissions (1896), or when Fourier published the first calculations explaining the dependence of the temperature of the earth on greenhouse gases (1827), or even when Tyndall published the first experiments demonstrating the heat trapping abilities of gases like methane, carbon dioxide, and water vapour (1864).

Do you think this is some longstanding USDA conspiracy? Darkbeaver would probably believe you.

The physical basis is very old.

So ramble on about bank transfers, it has nothing to do with the science, but then I know better than to try to convince believers in conspiracy.

It's the proposed solution that is dependent on transferring wealth from developed countries to non-developed.

One solution. I'm more keen to use market forces that drive innovation, but that's me, and it certainly should not be conflated with the physical science.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Give you a break for what? Lame conspiracy and no evidence of fraud? Dream on.

Only the USDA existed when Arrhenius published the first calculations of an enhanced greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic greenhouse emissions (1896), or when Fourier published the first calculations explaining the dependence of the temperature of the earth on greenhouse gases (1827), or even when Tyndall published the first experiments demonstrating the heat trapping abilities of gases like methane, carbon dioxide, and water vapour (1864).

Do you think this is some longstanding USDA conspiracy? Darkbeaver would probably believe you.

The physical basis is very old.

So ramble on about bank transfers, it has nothing to do with the science, but then I know better than to try to convince believers in conspiracy.



One solution. I'm more keen to use market forces that drive innovation, but that's me, and it certainly should not be conflated with the physical science.

You're keen to use " market forces that drive innovation" and yet you deny international banking as being thee force driving market innovation. And please remember profit is #1 not novelty nor innovation nor utility unless monetary profit is first and foremost.

"So ramble on about bank transfers, it has nothing to do with the science" that's a keeper
 

captain morgan

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So ramble on about bank transfers, it has nothing to do with the science, but then I know better than to try to convince believers in conspiracy.

In effect, that is what the bottom-line is relative to various proposed solutions/demands.

The term 'climate reparations ' embodies that premise

One solution. I'm more keen to use market forces that drive innovation, but that's me, and it certainly should not be conflated with the physical science.

That is the way it should be.

For a time, governments got directly involved in attempts to spur the innovation and have it placed in various nations.

The result is that the technology is underachieving and the market forces have put pressure on abandoning the initiatives relative to the existing tech/options.

Time will change this, but brute force has proven ineffective
 

Tonington

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You're keen to use " market forces that drive innovation" and yet you deny international banking as being thee force driving market innovation.

I don't deny banking as being the force driving market innovation. I don't know how much of an impact international banking as opposed to domestic banking or other forms of capital has on innovation, but I wouldn't deny it.

Time will change this, but brute force has proven ineffective

A price on acid rain causing emissions spurred innovation. We're not doing anything close to that yet. A few jurisdictions here and there have prices.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I don't deny banking as being the force driving market innovation. I don't know how much of an impact international banking as opposed to domestic banking or other forms of capital has on innovation, but I wouldn't deny it.

You will look long and hard to find the now extinct western domestic banking, the names exist but nothing else. Follow Mr Carneys career you'll get the picture. It's one bank BIS.

Innovation is a meaningless buzzword without context.. You can't buy a bag of it.
 

captain morgan

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A price on acid rain causing emissions spurred innovation. We're not doing anything close to that yet. A few jurisdictions here and there have prices.

There was a clear link between emissions and acid rain where the solution was straight forward

More to the point, the AGW related solutions today see one group (Western nations) transferring cash to non-developed nations for the purpose of developing their economies and introducing an entirely new generation of consumers (read emitters).

The logic does not make any sense whatsoever.

It's one bank BIS.


BIS?

Full name?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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There was a clear link between emissions and acid rain where the solution was straight forward

More to the point, the AGW related solutions today see one group (Western nations) transferring cash to non-developed nations for the purpose of developing their economies and introducing an entirely new generation of consumers (read emitters).

The logic does not make any sense whatsoever.

Unless you count the profit motive, and that is not always denominated in currencies. Economics is war.
 

captain morgan

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Unless you count the profit motive, and that is not always denominated in currencies. Economics is war.

Of course it is war. Furthermore, it not only promotes conflict between systems but also pits the consumer against the supplier/mfgr.

Ultimately, you don't need a bank to have this in play... If you are starving and I have a bag of apples, well, you can take it from there
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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More to the point, the AGW related solutions today see one group (Western nations) transferring cash to non-developed nations for the purpose of developing their economies and introducing an entirely new generation of consumers (read emitters).

The logic does not make any sense whatsoever.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. I've always been of the mind that we should finance innovation here, and when the economies of scale take hold, well in effect the consumers here would subsidize lower prices abroad. But perhaps more important, most of the developing nations don't respect intellectual property anyways. Likely some entrepreneur in a developing nation would simply copy the tech and sell it for cheap. This happens with our vaccines and pharmaceuticals all the time.

But, what equally does not make sense to me, is to respond to scientific findings with DB-style conspiracy charges.