MADD With Power

[BornRuff]

I don't have "broad anti-government sentiments" and I don't think misrepresenting my position is that helpful either. I have specific and recent concerns regarding the balance between individual liberties and public safety.

As stated earlier, clearly we don't agree on where those lines should be drawn. Therefore you support the bill, and I don't. I think the police have enough auhtority and reousrces to do their job as it is, and the declining rate of drinking and driving is evidence of that.

Well, if you are going to bring concerns about the government spying on you into a discussion about breathalyzers, that seems like a pretty broad definition of what is relevant to me.

As we have already talked about, there is a balance, but that balance has to be between things that actually have an impact on the situation. Saying that we don't need anymore tool to fight drinking and driving because the government might be reading your emails is kind of like saying that we don't need anymore guns and gangs officers because the military is training soldiers in Afghanistan.

I also disagree with your logic that because they are seeing improvements under the current laws, it proves that they don't need to do anymore. Just because we are seeing rates decline right now doesn't meant that we could not see them decline even more if we did more. Why wouldn't you want to save more lives if you could do so with reasonable measures?

 

[Zipperfish]

Well, if you are going to bring concerns about the government spying on you into a discussion about breathalyzers, that seems like a pretty broad definition of what is relevant to me.

As we have already talked about, there is a balance, but that balance has to be between things that actually have an impact on the situation. Saying that we don't need anymore tool to fight drinking and driving because the government might be reading your emails is kind of like saying that we don't need anymore guns and gangs officers because the military is training soldiers in Afghanistan.

Both issues concern the line between individual liberties and public safety, which make it relevant, to my mind.

I also disagree with your logic that because they are seeing improvements under the current laws, it proves that they don't need to do anymore. Just because we are seeing rates decline right now doesn't meant that we could not see them decline even more if we did more. Why wouldn't you want to save more lives if you could do so with reasonable measures?

It's more of an ethical issue than a logical one. From your point of view, this is an acceptable infringement for the reasons you stated. From mine, it is not, for reasons stated. Because my opinion differs doesn't mean I'm an extremist ("broad anti-government sentiments") or illogical. There is significant disagreement on this issue even among senior judges.

 

[BornRuff]

Both issues concern the line between individual liberties and public safety, which make it relevant, to my mind.

It just doesn't make sense to me that you would argue against more measures against drinking and driving because of another issue that has nothing to do with drinking and driving.

It's more of an ethical issue than a logical one. From your point of view, this is an acceptable infringement for the reasons you stated. From mine, it is not, for reasons stated. Because my opinion differs doesn't mean I'm an extremist ("broad anti-government sentiments") or illogical. There is significant disagreement on this issue even among senior judges.

Well, no, I do not think that it is an infringement. If Ride checks in general can hold up against the charter, this seems to be in the same ballpark.

When I mentioned "broad anti government views", I was not implying that you are an extremist. I am simply talking about you taking broad issues that you have against the government, like spying, and applying it to this unrelated issue.

 

[Cannuck]

MADD and their legislative zealot brethren have taken all the fun out of socializing. Especially in rural areas where there are no busses or taxis. Community dances are just about a thing of the past since everyone is afraid to have a drink.



More like upset with unwarranted searches. Seat belt checks are the same idea. It is just an excuse for police to go probing in your vehicle to see if they can hand out a fine.

Drinking and driving is such a minor problem in rural areas. I've went to at least two MVCs every year caused by sleep deprived farmers trying to get the harvest done. I went to one caused by a drunk driver in 15 years. I still haven't seen any stats on accidents caused by those with a BAC between 0.05 and 0.10

 

[taxslave]

The problem is not so much stopping drunks, rather it is our new rules that give cops the right to steal your vehicle and cost you a lot of money with no legal recourse even when you are below the legal impaired limit of .08.

 

[Cannuck]

The problem is not so much stopping drunks, rather it is our new rules that give cops the right to steal your vehicle and cost you a lot of money with no legal recourse even when you are below the legal impaired limit of .08.

Like the distracted driving laws, it's being driven by insurance companies.

 

[taxslave]

Like the distracted driving laws, it's being driven by insurance companies.

In BC it is being used as a cash cow. Of course our socialized insurance company is in on the theft.

 

[Cannuck]

In BC it is being used as a cash cow. Of course our socialized insurance company is in on the theft.

But if it saves just one child, isn't it all worth it

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

MADD should run for office or **** off.

 

[eh1eh]

If you haven't done anything wrong why do you need constitutional rights and freedoms?

 

[Colpy]

It just doesn't make sense to me that you would argue against more measures against drinking and driving because of another issue that has nothing to do with drinking and driving.



Well, no, I do not think that it is an infringement. If Ride checks in general can hold up against the charter, this seems to be in the same ballpark.

When I mentioned "broad anti government views", I was not implying that you are an extremist. I am simply talking about you taking broad issues that you have against the government, like spying, and applying it to this unrelated issue.

Then you understand squat about individual rights. RIDE merely allows the police to check for inspection, licences, registration....the violation of which is NOT a criminal offense. To make you take a BAC they have to have reasonable cause, as that IS a criminal offense.............

AND, if the guy so likes in in Australia where you can be charged with a .05% BAL and "busloads" of drivers are snatched up with no reasonable cause and forced into testing, then I suggest he return to that nation forthwith.

 

[MHz]

The newer models will have it built in and activated by any squad car or crash investigator. Perhaps mofel 'B' will lock the doors and deliver you to the station itself as soon as you put the keys in start the engine, foot on the brake and shifter out of park. Without the last two it just locks the doors so you can be safe until the air is suitable to let you out in public. I could live with that but I also want a manual override so when the chip fails I can crank the engine by hand and get around at 1/2 the gas mileage.

 

[BornRuff]

Then you understand squat about individual rights. RIDE merely allows the police to check for inspection, licences, registration....the violation of which is NOT a criminal offense. To make you take a BAC they have to have reasonable cause, as that IS a criminal offense.............

AND, if the guy so likes in in Australia where you can be charged with a .05% BAL and "busloads" of drivers are snatched up with no reasonable cause and forced into testing, then I suggest he return to that nation forthwith.

When you hit a Ride checkpoint, they are not checking "inspection, licences, registration...".They are explicitly checking to see if you are driving while impaired.

 

[petros]

When you hit a Ride checkpoint, they are not checking "inspection, licences, registration...".They are explicitly checking to see if you are driving while impaired.

LOL that's f*cking hilarious.

 

[eh1eh]

Then you understand squat about individual rights. RIDE merely allows the police to check for inspection, licences, registration....the violation of which is NOT a criminal offense. To make you take a BAC they have to have reasonable cause, as that IS a criminal offense.............

AND, if the guy so likes in in Australia where you can be charged with a .05% BAL and "busloads" of drivers are snatched up with no reasonable cause and forced into testing, then I suggest he return to that nation forthwith.

So... the police can just stop anyone for no reason to see if they can drum up some 'reasonable cause' for 'something' like whatever, they might find like you're not complying with the government order to love Stephen?
What this is is a fishing expedition. Be prepared to show your papers at random while you are taking your children to the doctor or having a hair cut. If you are a citizen and not drunk you may pass... unless another 'situation' arises that requires police to fish for perpetrators.

BTW. I've never had to show ID or my vehicle info at a RIDE check. They just stick their heads in the window to fish for drunks. There is no "check for inspection, licenses, registration."

 

[Colpy]

When you hit a Ride checkpoint, they are not checking "inspection, licences, registration...".They are explicitly checking to see if you are driving while impaired.

They are looking for reasonable cause, but they can NOT force you to take a test or hold you without reasonable cause, which is kind of the point.

So... the police can just stop anyone for no reason to see if they can drum up some 'reasonable cause' for 'something' like whatever, they might find like you're not complying with the government order to love Stephen?
What this is is a fishing expedition. Be prepared to show your papers at random while you are taking your children to the doctor or having a hair cut. If you are a citizen and not drunk you may pass... unless another 'situation' arises that requires police to fish for perpetrators.

BTW. I've never had to show ID or my vehicle info at a RIDE check. They just stick their heads in the window to fish for drunks. There is no "check for inspection, licenses, registration."

Funny, they always look at my windshield for the inspection, and my license plate for the registration sticker, and usually ask for my license....

 

[eh1eh]

They are looking for reasonable cause, but they can NOT force you to take a test or hold you without reasonable cause, which is kind of the point.



Funny, they always look at my windshield for the inspection, and my license plate for the registration sticker, and usually ask for my license....

Not here in Ontario. They just sniff and go.

Also, the fact they pulled you over without reasonable cause is ok?

 

[Cannuck]

Funny, they always look at my windshield for the inspection, and my license plate for the registration sticker, and usually ask for my license....

They have never asked me for my license, insurance or registration. The sticker on my rear license can't be seen from the front of the car or the drivers side door.

 

[Colpy]

Not here in Ontario. They just sniff and go.

Also, the fact they pulled you over without reasonable cause is ok?

Yeah, that is a point, but the fact there are minor infringements on our rights does not justify major infringements on our rights.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

They have never asked me for my license, insurance or registration. The sticker on my rear license can't be seen from the front of the car or the drivers side door.

Put on your hip waders folks Canuck is about to start shoveling his BS again.