Libertarian Island, doomed to fail, or not?

[Tonington]

Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

Pay Pal founder and early Facebook investor Peter Thiel has given $1.25 million to an initiative to create floating libertarian countries in international waters, according to a profile of the billionaire in Details magazine.

Thiel has been a big backer of the Seasteading Institute, which seeks to build sovereign nations on oil rig-like platforms to occupy waters beyond the reach of law-of-the-sea treaties. The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place. Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons."

"There are quite a lot of people who think it's not possible," Thiel said at a Seasteading Institute Conference in 2009, according to Details. (His first donation was in 2008, for $500,000.) "That's a good thing. We don't need to really worry about those people very much, because since they don't think it's possible they won't take us very seriously. And they will not actually try to stop us until it's too late."
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So, what say you?

 

[mentalfloss]

I think that petri dish will still run into problems with liberty since the clashing of values is a natural fact of life. For instance, you might find that "few restrictions on weapons" might clash with "no welfare".

Mind you, it could definitely allow for more freedom than modern society, but there are still environmental and societal barriers that cannot be avoided.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Sounds like a wonderful recipe for floating slums. I wonder how the ultra-rich on these floating islands of capitalism will protect themselves from the anarchic conditions that would quickly erupt.

 

[SLM]

Sounds like a bad Kevin Costner movie to me.

But on the up side, no Kevin Costner.

 

[CDNBear]

Sounds like a bad Kevin Costner movie to me.

But on the up side, no Kevin Costner.

 

[mentalfloss]

Every Kevin Costner movie is a bad movie.

 

[Mowich]

I think it is a recipe for disaster both for humans and the environment. Where will they get fresh water and what will they do with their waste?

 

[mentalfloss]

I think it is a recipe for disaster both for humans and the environment. Where will they get fresh water and what will they do with their waste?

They're libertarians, they don't need water.

 

[bill barilko]

Hilarious really-they'd need trillions and trillions to keep the sharks away and I don't mean the ones with fins.

 

[SLM]

Thiel has been a big backer of the Seasteading Institute, which seeks to build sovereign nations on oil rig-like platforms to occupy waters beyond the reach of law-of-the-sea treaties. The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place.
​

That'll never happen. People always bring their baggage with them.

Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons."

So, rampant "pure" ideology in an enclosed space with the potential for heavy weapons fire? I'm seeing a lot of shark food.

Seriously, which for me is a somewhat relative thing I'll admit, how is this any different than any other group that decides to live in some sort of secluded society? They too often base their "society" on an ideology, often an extreme religious ideology, and can likely also claim no welfare and no minimum wage as they are communal and no one really gets paid anyway.

Some even have few restrictions on weapons.

And it usually ends so well when people do that.

​

Every Kevin Costner movie is a bad movie.

In retrospect my comment was a little redundant.

 

[Bar Sinister]

That'll never happen. People always bring their baggage with them.

So, rampant "pure" ideology in an enclosed space with the potential for heavy weapons fire? I'm seeing a lot of shark food.

Seriously, which for me is a somewhat relative thing I'll admit, how is this any different than any other group that decides to live in some sort of secluded society? They too often base their "society" on an ideology, often an extreme religious ideology, and can likely also claim no welfare and no minimum wage as they are communal and no one really gets paid anyway.

Some even have few restrictions on weapons.

And it usually ends so well when people do that.​

​

Yes, the best I can say about the idea is that it would probably turn into a capitalistic Jonestown; without Jimmy Jones' high moral values to hold it together.

 

[CDNBear]

[/INDENT]Yes, the best I can say about the idea is that it would probably turn into a capitalistic Jonestown; without Jimmy Jones' high moral values to hold it together.

...8O

 

[shadowshiv]

Sounds like a bad Kevin Costner movie to me.

But on the up side, no Kevin Costner.

Hey! I happened to like Waterworld.

As to the original topic, I don't think it will last overly long. Whether it's from an internal or external source remains to be seen.

Actually, it sounds a lot like the plot of the video game Bioshock, except on the surface of the ocean rather than underneath it.

 

[taxslave]

A libertarian island free from the laws of the sea also would not have the protection of those laws either. In a true Libertarian society taxes are optional. Who pays when the good ship lollygag springs a leak?

 

[damngrumpy]

All of these things have been tried before in one form or another and they all end up in the same
way. Human nature gets hold of reality and it goes for not. Over a century ago the Doukhobors
came to Canada and lived in a specific society with their own ways and rules. It lasted less than
sixty years and fell apart, Grand Forks BC is like any other community now. I know its not the
same thing, but the concept was much in the same vein. The of course the Margret Witmer and
their little group of about 8 couples left Germany in the early part of the twentieth century They
ventured to the Galapagos Islands to live in a self styled community based of Libertarian Principles.
As it turn out they ended up with some disappearing and some killing each other and it ended with
disaster as all these types of ventures go. I would say no it won't work, one greedy person or one
person who does not conform will upset the apple cart. Conform you say? You bet Libertarian or
not some of these people begin to enact rules for the good of all, you know like the ones we have
now that have totally disrupted our lives and society and have failed us miserably.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Pack a few rats in a maze....they may coexist. Pack too many together in a small
space and there's violence. How many people would live on each rig platform?
Wouldn't limiting the number of folks on each rig be against the libertarian ideals?
But too many without some code (laws, whatever you wish to call them) to follow
in a small space would be a recipe for disaster. It'll be interesting.

I wonder how these small autonomous "nations" will become financially independent
so as not to be influenced by outside influences which would curb their liberatarian
nature? What about trade with nations with laws and rules, who may require things
to be done in a certain way in order to be involved in trade....wouldn't that also be a
conflict?

 

[Cliffy]

It would be great to have live streaming reality TV of the experiment so we can all watch the carnage. Lots of people would tune in and the sponsors would make a bundle selling useless stuff and when it all falls apart they could declare a victory for capitalism and democracy. And there would be a lot less crazies.

As anybody who tried the commune thing - don't work, we are too immature or retarded, depending on your point of view.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ah.....reality TV....the beginning of financially independence for these "nations."
I never thought of that. To make it more interesting for the viewers, locate them
in international waters off the coast of Somolia. Few to no rules....lots of weapons,
maybe some pirates....hmmmm.

 

[Cliffy]

Ah.....reality TV....the beginning of financially independence for these "nations."
I never thought of that. To make it more interesting for the viewers, locate them
in international waters off the coast of Somolia. Few to no rules....lots of weapons,
maybe some pirates....hmmmm.

Gladiator sports worked for the Romans.

"Liberty Island - Real Life, Real Death, Real Gore!" Tune in at 5 for the latest updates.

 

[annabattler]

Gladiator sports worked for the Romans.

"Liberty Island - Real Life, Real Death, Real Gore!" Tune in at 5 for the latest updates.

It's an intriguing idea...though I wonder how much influence the "funders" would have.
I'm pushing 70...have learned patience,learned what things are "needs" and what things are "wants"...learned to compromise.
I'd like to try this "island".