Liberals Preparing For A Summer Election

[SirJosephPorter]

This week he once again almost found his spine and attempted to stand tall and Harper shut him down on his key demand

Now that is a matter of opinion, isn’t it, Goober? If one is a dyed in the wool conservative (like you or Captain), then sure, Iggy caved in and the Messiah won a huge victory (but then doesn’t he always?).

On the other hand from the point of view of a liberal like me, it was the Messiah who caved in and gave in to Iggy’s demand. It was Iggy who behaved like a mature adult and decided not to pull the plug on your Messiah.

It is all a matter of perspective, Goober. No doubt to you the Messiah’s rule means paradise on earth, but to me it doesn’t. Anyway, come next election (whenever that is), the Messiah will have a fight on his hand; he will have to fight to keep his minority. Any dreams he (and you) had of Messiah getting a majority (that would really usher a paradise on earth) seem to be as distant as ever.

So it is all a matter of perspective.

 

[Cannuck]

SJP
Do you recall Iggy stating that he wanted the money flowing – do you think he would have no bailed out the auto industry – Do you think? Iggy voted for it and Harper pushed the money out the door. Remember it takes 2 parties to pass a spending bill and Iggy was right there. Holding the Govt to account – So far how successful has he been.

As a minority government, the Conservatives can't do anything without the support of at least one of the opposition parties. I don't recall any of them calling for the government not to spend money. Their biggest complaint is that it isn't being spent fast enough.

 

[Cannuck]

If the Harper Conservatives are being guided by the Liberals it shows who is in control in Ottawa.

So, Iggy by far is not the cause of the $50.2 Billion Glue or red ink, my forum friend you are reading this one poorly, stating that the people will blame Iggy for such drastic change of economic agenda from no deficit to $50.2 Billion, just in 8 months.

Maybe you should make up your mind. If the Liberals are in control, they are responsible. Only a dishonest Liberal would expect to have it both ways.

 

[JLM]

SJP
Do you recall Iggy stating that he wanted the money flowing – do you think he would have no bailed out the auto industry – Do you think? Iggy voted for it and Harper pushed the money out the door. Remember it takes 2 parties to pass a spending bill and Iggy was right there. Holding the Govt to account – So far how successful has he been.

This week he once again almost found his spine and attempted to stand tall and Harper shut him down on his key demand – So what did Iggy gain this week – Certainly not a spine – Perhaps we should name him the Hunchback of Liberalism. Appropriate I might say.

Iggy spent to long under Dion – Threats and then back down – back to his serenity -

I don't think there's any doubt that if Iggy were P.M. he'd be spending money like a drunken sailor on a Saturday night. Of course that would be understandable as I'm sure he's spent many hours talking to Rae, who if I remember correctly spent Ontario's way out of a recession. :lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I don't think there's any doubt that if Iggy were P.M. he'd be spending money like a drunken sailor on a Saturday night. Of course that would be understandable as I'm sure he's spent many hours talking to Rae, who if I remember correctly spent Ontario's way out of a recession. :lol::lol:

That is only speculation on your part JLM, you don't know that for a fact. What we do know for a fact is that Messiah has spent money like a drunken sailor.

 

[Cannuck]

That is only speculation on your part JLM, you don't know that for a fact. What we do know for a fact is that Messiah has spent money like a drunken sailor.

...And we also know that Iggy has not been telling him to stop or even to slow down. No, it really isn't speculation. JLM has pretty much hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

[JLM]

That is only speculation on your part JLM, you don't know that for a fact. What we do know for a fact is that Messiah has spent money like a drunken sailor.

Would you care to provide with an itemized List? I know he's bailing out G.M. and Chrysler and I know he's talking about putting out money for infrastructure that hasn't materialized and I know just todays he's talking a billion for pulp mills, but really, Harper has generally been fairly frugal. But you must know of other spending the rest of us haven't heard of. It's Iggy who wants to break E.I. wide open not Harper.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Would you care to provide with an itemized List? I know he's bailing out G.M. and Chrysler and I know he's talking about putting out money for infrastructure that hasn't materialized and I know just todays he's talking a billion for pulp mills, but really, Harper has generally been fairly frugal. But you must know of other spending the rest of us haven't heard of. It's Iggy who wants to break E.I. wide open not Harper.

There is no need to provide a detailed list, JLM, he is running at least 50 billion $ deficit (maybe more, he doesn’t know the exact figure).

If 50 billion $ is being frugal, I shudder to think that being spendthrift would be like.

 

[ironsides]

Harper has no choice but to change his strategy as circumstances change- only an idiot would do otherwise.

You left out a lot of Presidents, all these economic problems we have can be traced back to F.D.R. and every President after him. They all had a part in chipping away at the economy. (yes, even sainted Carter).

 

[YukonJack]

The meeting between Prime Minister Harper and Dion Light Ignatieff ruled out Summer Elections. It will give enough time for the Liberals to go shopping for spines.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The meeting between Prime Minister Harper and Dion Light Ignatieff ruled out Summer Elections. It will give enough time for the Liberals to go shopping for spines.

Well Yukon, your Messiah is behind in the polls at present. Maybe summer will give him time to catch up with liberals.

 

[TenPenny]

In politics, optics are what counts. Ignatief is now seen as almost, sort of, nearly, well, thinking about, in a way, forcing Harper to call an election - the ultimate test of a party's standing with the voters.

But, he didn't come through, for a multitude of reasons (in my mind, the main one is fear of being 'punished' at the polls for forcing an election). He was playing the game of trying to force an election while trying to make it all the Conservatives' fault, but that wasn't flying.

The problem is, he's yet another Liberal leader who pushes to the brink, and then changes his mind. And so, it doesn't make him look good.

In the end, it's all politics as usual, you can easily skip the news for a month or two, and nothing will have changed.

Whether it's the right thing to do is a whole other topic.

 

[pegger]

Maybe you should make up your mind. If the Liberals are in control, they are responsible. Only a dishonest Liberal would expect to have it both ways.

Conservatives play the same game. They are the "government" but somehow the $50 B debt is all because the coalition "held a gun to their head."

Simple fact is, both sides are "responsible" for it. (Well, not the NDP or Bloc - they automatically vote against everything)

 

[JLM]

"If 50 billion $ is being frugal, I shudder to think that being spendthrift would be like."- That's 2009 dollars. How much would that be in 1980 dollars, I'm guessing about $10-$15 billion when Trudeau was running $40 billion deficits. It all depends on whether you think bailing out the auto and forest industries is wasting money, some don't think so, but even so that is still a drop in the bucket compared to what it would cost us if Iggy got his way and reduced eligibility period for E.I. to 45 days. Personally I think it's better to keep people working- hopefully the bailout is a one time deal- if Iggy ever got that E.I. issue changed it would be an ongoing deal for ever and a day.

 

[pegger]

.... Harper has generally been fairly frugal.

What?

How about - extra $1 B a year to Quebec to "fix the fiscal imbalance"?

Or a 2% cut in GST.

Or the $100 a month do nothing cheque for "child care."

Or the highest spending government on polls?

Or the rampant abuse of 10%ers?

Or the hiring of an image consultant on the public dime?

Or the brand new security detaill/motorcade that goes with him everywhere?

Or the general increases to government spending of 6.7% per annum (2x the rate of inflation) for his first 2 years?

Or the purchasing of long-haul aircraft, that the air-force didn't even want?

Or the purchasing of tanks that are scheduled to arrive AFTER we are out of Afganistan?

Or the $1 B blackmail payout to the US to "save" our lumber industry (how did that work?)

This man has been anything but "frugal." Going from a $12 B surplus to a $50 B deficit is not frugal.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"If 50 billion $ is being frugal, I shudder to think that being spendthrift would be like."- That's 2009 dollars. How much would that be in 1980 dollars, I'm guessing about $10-$15 billion when Trudeau was running $40 billion deficits. It all depends on whether you think bailing out the auto and forest industries is wasting money, some don't think so, but even so that is still a drop in the bucket compared to what it would cost us if Iggy got his way and reduced eligibility period for E.I. to 45 days. Personally I think it's better to keep people working- hopefully the bailout is a one time deal- if Iggy ever got that E.I. issue changed it would be an ongoing deal for ever and a day.

That is your opinion, JLM. You are conjuring up all kinds of dark, ominous scenarios of what Iggy will or will not do, that is a common tactics in politics, to demonize one’s opponent. How we have a paradise under the rule of Messiah, how all Hell will break lose the moment Iggy becomes the PM (and as of now, chances look good that he may become one, much as you may not like it).

And sometimes it does work. When Mike Harris was running for his second term, he demonized McGuinty big time and it worked. Harris got a second majority. However, when the second time Conservatives tried to demonize McGuinty (Harris had already left by now, leaving the Ontario economy in shambles), it failed miserably.

You are doing what the Messiah is doing, trying to demonize Iggy. It remains to be seen if people buy it.

But again, numbers don’t lie, no matter what kind of political spin you put on them. Messiah is running at least 50 billion $ deficit, bigger than any other PM, and there is no getting away from the fact. You may think in your mind that Iggy may run what, 100 billion, 200 billion $ deficit? But you have to convince others of that. And they have Liberal record to compare that with (converting conservative deficits into hug surplus).

 

[pegger]

In politics, optics are what counts. Ignatief is now seen as almost, sort of, nearly, well, thinking about, in a way, forcing Harper to call an election - the ultimate test of a party's standing with the voters.

But, he didn't come through, for a multitude of reasons (in my mind, the main one is fear of being 'punished' at the polls for forcing an election). He was playing the game of trying to force an election while trying to make it all the Conservatives' fault, but that wasn't flying.

The problem is, he's yet another Liberal leader who pushes to the brink, and then changes his mind. And so, it doesn't make him look good.

In the end, it's all politics as usual, you can easily skip the news for a month or two, and nothing will have changed.

Whether it's the right thing to do is a whole other topic.

Yeah - each side is going to spin it as they see fit.

In my opinion - this is the way minority governments SHOULD work. The Leader of the Government should work with the Leader of the Opposition - and find solutions to these problems that they can agree with - instead of the constant sabre rattling and other BS. I give both men, Harper and Iggy, credit for putting aside partisan politics and actually trying to accomplish something more than one-up-manship. It's too bad this didn't happen back in November...and that it most likely won't happen again...

 

[JLM]

That is your opinion, JLM. You are conjuring up all kinds of dark, ominous scenarios of what Iggy will or will not do, that is a common tactics in politics, to demonize one’s opponent. How we have a paradise under the rule of Messiah, how all Hell will break lose the moment Iggy becomes the PM (and as of now, chances look good that he may become one, much as you may not like it).

And sometimes it does work. When Mike Harris was running for his second term, he demonized McGuinty big time and it worked. Harris got a second majority. However, when the second time Conservatives tried to demonize McGuinty (Harris had already left by now, leaving the Ontario economy in shambles), it failed miserably.

You are doing what the Messiah is doing, trying to demonize Iggy. It remains to be seen if people buy it.

But again, numbers don’t lie, no matter what kind of political spin you put on them. Messiah is running at least 50 billion $ deficit, bigger than any other PM, and there is no getting away from the fact. You may think in your mind that Iggy may run what, 100 billion, 200 billion $ deficit? But you have to convince others of that. And they have Liberal record to compare that with (converting conservative deficits into hug surplus).

How am I demonizing Iggy? He said he wants a 45 day eligibility period for E.I. You didn't answer my question how much is $50 billion in 1980 dollars? You are one of these people (and people who attach themselves to a political stripe do this) who never gives the opposition credit for doing anything right and never gives your heroes any flack for doing anything wrong. But that's a common trap that people who are not too astute fall into. I realize both Harper and Iggy have serious faults and don't recognize either one of them as being a "messiah".

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Pegger, let me see if I can defend the Messiah here.

How about - extra $1 B a year to Quebec to "fix the fiscal imbalance"?

Come on now, the guy has to look for votes in Quebec.

Or a 2% cut in GST.

The rich are the natural constituency of the Conservative Party, it makes sense to keep them happy.

Or the $100 a month do nothing cheque for "child care."

The religious right (where man usually goes out to earn the big bucks, the little woman stays at home and looks after the kiddies) is another natural constituency of Conservative Party, the Messiah has to keep them happy.

Or the hiring of an image consultant on the public dime?

Give him a break pegger, the guy has the personality of a wet sponge. While his acolytes adore him, to them he is the Messiah, he has to do something to polish up his image with the nonbelievers, the heathens.

Or the brand new security detaill/motorcade that goes with him everywhere?

He is afraid of being assassinated.

Or the general increases to government spending of 6.7% per annum (2x the rate of inflation) for his first 2 years?

Surely he has to outdo Mulroney? He has the reputation of Conservatives to protect (borrow and spend).

Or the purchasing of long-haul aircraft, that the air-force didn't even want?

What does the air force know?

Or the purchasing of tanks that are scheduled to arrive AFTER we are out of Afganistan?

That will be our parting gift to the Taliban.

Or the $1 B blackmail payout to the US to "save" our lumber industry (how did that work?)

That was not blackmail money, it was propitiation offering to Bush , in the hope that he will look more kindly upon Canada. Just as Messiah’s acolytes hold him in awe, Messiah himself held Bush in similar awe. He had to do something to get into the good graces of Bush. Giving away 1 billion $ of taxpayer’s money at the altar of Bush worship was a small price to pay. It didn’t work of course. But then propitiation offering to Gods do not always yields immediate results, one must be patient.

This man has been anything but "frugal." Going from a $12 B surplus to a $50 B deficit is not frugal.

He is frugal by conservative standards. Conservatives are the masters of borrow and spend philosophy. As JLM pointed out, the 50 billion $ deficit is smaller than 40 billion generated by Mulroney when adjusted for inflation. Be thankful of small mercies, or we will see the spendthrift side of Harper. And believe me, you don’t want to see spendthrift side of a conservative.

According to conservative acolytes, Reagan, the Bushes, Mulroney, Harper, they all have been frugal. Imagine what it would be like if they had been spendthrift.

 

[TenPenny]

The rich are the natural constituency of the Conservative Party, it makes sense to keep them happy.

Oddly enough, in Canada, most of the 'moneyed' family dynasties are strong supporters of the Liberal Party. So much so, in fact, that sometimes they are given special exemptions from the rules about transferring your fortunes to offshore trusts.