Liberal phobia and the cause….

[SirJosephPorter]

Quoting SirJosephPorter
Now we are getting somewhere, JJM. Conservative way is the correct way. There, was that really so hard? You finally admitted that you indeed are a conservative.

But why were you so ashamed of admitting that until now? As I said before, each and every opinion you expressed here has been conservative opinion and still you take offense when I refer to you as a conservative?

Anyway, I am glad you have had the epiphany; you realized that you indeed are a conservative, that Harper indeed is your idol.

And that is a rather strange view about minimum wage. You are OK if we have the minimum wage, but you don’t ever want to raise it. So decades from now, when prices and wages are ten times what they are today, you still want to keep the minimum wage same as it is now, effectively reducing it to 1 $ an hour. How is that any different form not having the minimum wage at all?

The thread is about Liberal phobia and I see you're demonstrating some good examples as to how that phobia came to exist.

You are making up facts in your imagination, and then expounding on them as if they were true. If people don't agree with you, then you just screech louder. It is one way to "deflect the bullets" but it really doesn't accomplish anything, other than making the screecher feel good.

What makes it a phobia is the thought that real decisions in the past have actually been made on this basis. Perhaps it's not so much a phobia as it is a tragedy.

The Roman Empire had similar behaviours at the top of it, and that didn't bode well for their sustainability.

It might be a good time to turn down the screeching innuendo and focus on some facts. It would make for a more productive discussion and who knows...we might even come up with some realistic solutions that could help to solve some of the many weighty problems that are facing this country.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT] And what is your point in all this? You quoted my post (I have reproduced it here), then completely ignored it, did not address a single point I raised, and simply went on a conservative rant. Then what was the point of quoting my post, if you ere not going to address even a single point in it?

 

[Francis2004]

'My way' (the way of Clinton, Chretien and Martin) has resulted in balanced budget, healthy surpluses, low unemployment and economic prosperity.

'Your way' (the way of Reagan, Bush, Mulroney, Mike Harris) has resulted in huge deficits, high unemployment and recession.

SJP, blaming Reagan for the recession of the early 1980's would be much like blaming Obama for the recession he came into in 2009..

 

[countryboy]

Feasibility studies and Royal Commissions.... What a government thing to do.... ;-)

Quite so, LW, quite so.

 

[Francis2004]

Tut tut, now...let us not get our shirttails in a knot here. Anyone (like Paul Martin) can balance a budget by moving things around...like a heavy download of health care costs from the federal to 10 different provincial budgets.

And, performance is always fairly measured with a big "given the conditions"...following a Liberal government after they've cooked up the books (remember, health care!) isn't exactly ideal operating conditions. Following an NDP provincial government is about the worst possible nightmare, fiscally speaking. Cleaning up the hidden doo-doo takes a bit longer.

Well a balanced budget was made.. You must give Paul Martin some credit.. Offloading or not, he had the audacity to finally do what nobody else prior to him did and that was to put the budget in the black by what ever means it took.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Your reading skills still need a little brushing up. YOu keep "putting words in people's mouths". I have never "admitted" I was a Conservative

You haven't, really? You said the following:

perhaps the Conservative way is the correct way,.

Post #188

I love that guy. (Even if he is a Conservative)

Post #172. You were referring to Harper there.

That is enough evidence for me to conclude that you indeed are a conservative.

 

[countryboy]

Quoting SirJosephPorter
Now we are getting somewhere, JJM. Conservative way is the correct way. There, was that really so hard? You finally admitted that you indeed are a conservative.

But why were you so ashamed of admitting that until now? As I said before, each and every opinion you expressed here has been conservative opinion and still you take offense when I refer to you as a conservative?

Anyway, I am glad you have had the epiphany; you realized that you indeed are a conservative, that Harper indeed is your idol.

And that is a rather strange view about minimum wage. You are OK if we have the minimum wage, but you don’t ever want to raise it. So decades from now, when prices and wages are ten times what they are today, you still want to keep the minimum wage same as it is now, effectively reducing it to 1 $ an hour. How is that any different form not having the minimum wage at all?





And what is your point in all this? You quoted my post (I have reproduced it here), then completely ignored it, did not address a single point I raised, and simply went on a conservative rant. Then what was the point of quoting my post, if you ere not going to address even a single point in it?

Aw shucks, SirJP, you missed the point, again. The thread is about Liberal phobia and I was pointing out how I felt that came to be, at least in part. Sorry if I wasn't direct enough there.

I'll strive to do better in the future, so that I can rise to your standard of a sensible and meaningful discourse. It's a stretch for me, but I shall get there if you just have a little patience with me. After all, I'm just a simple country guy who can't write with the coherence and style that comes naturally to you big city folks.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In spite of your mind's frequent visits to Fantasyland, it does make the occasional stop in Realityland. Not nearly often enough, sadly.

No doubt that is what you conservatives believe , countryboy. You really believe that borrow and spend is the correct way.

And you will never get me to believe that, no matter how hard you try.

 

[countryboy]

Well a balanced budget was made.. You must give Paul Martin some credit.. Offloading or not, he had the audacity to finally do what nobody else prior to him did and that was to put the budget in the black by what ever means it took.

Hey Francis, I couldn't agree more. Something had to be done. But, it's always nice to be honest about the price that was paid to get the job done. That part always seems to go missing, although I do understand we're talking politics here. :lol:

It reminds me a bit of how badly the armed forces were allowed to deteriorate, starting with the Trudeau days, and how much money has recently been spent to bring things up to a reasonable level (although the job isn't done yet). The way those folks were treated - shoddy & outdated equipment, crappy rates of pay, really bad housing, and zero recognition for doing their duty was a pretty nasty way to save a few bucks, but that seems to have been forgotten in the political discussions that follow.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP, blaming Reagan for the recession of the early 1980's would be much like blaming Obama for the recession he came into in 2009..

I am not blaming Reagan for the recession, Francis. I am blaming him for going on spending spree on borrowed money, essentially having a party using the credit card, for racking up huge deficits. The deficit was not cleared up until Clinton came to power. Reagan popularized the borrow and spend philosophy among the conservatives.

Since Reagan’s time, conservatism has become synonymous with borrow and spend. I am blaming Reagan for that.

As to blaming Obama for the current economic meltdown, many conservatives do precisely that. They blame everybody and anybody except Bush and the Republicans.

 

[Francis2004]

True Liberal Phobia's for Conservatives
.. Pierre Elliot Trudeau did something good for the country.
.. So did all other Liberal Prime Ministers including Jean Chretien..
.. Liberals can run a Government properly

On the flip side
True Conservative Phobia's for Liberals
.. Brian Mulroney did something good for the country.
.. So did every other Conservative Prime Minister including Stephen Harper
.. Conservatives can run a Government properly

 

[countryboy]

No doubt that is what you conservatives believe , countryboy. You really believe that borrow and spend is the correct way.

And you will never get me to believe that, no matter how hard you try.

Now now, SirJP - there you go again, fabricating a statement, believing it is true, and then responding to it.

The Bible sez I'm supposed to forgive people when "they know not what they do", so I'm going to do just that. I'm really a tolerant sort, in addition to being a hell of a nice guy.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Hey Francis, I couldn't agree more. Something had to be done. But, it's always nice to be honest about the price that was paid to get the job done. That part always seems to go missing, although I do understand we're talking politics here. :lol:

Price was paid to balance the budget? Well, duh. Balancing budget is never easy, if it was easy, even conservatives would have done it. Balancing the budget is a difficult and painful process, it involves tough choices and anybody whose ox is being gored is going to scream to high Heaven.

Price was paid? I should hope so. If budget is balanced in a painless manner, that probably means that it wasn’t balanced at all, it was done with smoke and mirrors.

Yes, the price was paid, and the price will have to be paid once again, if we are serious about balancing the budget (but then you conservatives don’t appear to be serious about it anyway). There will have to be spending cuts and tax increases.

 

[countryboy]

True Liberal Phobia's for Conservatives
.. Pierre Elliot Trudeau did something good for the country.
.. So did all other Liberal Prime Ministers including Jean Chretien..
.. Liberals can run a Government properly

On the flip side
True Conservative Phobia's for Liberals
.. Brian Mulroney did something good for the country.
.. So did every other Conservative Prime Minister including Stephen Harper
.. Conservatives can run a Government properly

...and they're both thankful that the NDP had never gained a lot of traction in a federal election! :lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Now now, SirJP - there you go again, fabricating a statement, believing it is true, and then responding to it.

The Bible sez I'm supposed to forgive people when "they know not what they do", so I'm going to do just that. I'm really a tolerant sort, in addition to being a hell of a nice guy.

Fabricating what, counrtyboy? That conservatives support borrow and spend economics? Well, show me even one conservative politician who has balanced the budget in recent memory. Show me even one conservative politician who hasn't ran up a huge deficit in recent memory.

Exactly what am I fabricating here?

 

[countryboy]

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I am flattered.

And I am happy that you are flattered, especially by something I wrote. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. :-|

 

[countryboy]

Exactly what am I fabricating here?[/quote]

It's in your post #247. You said, "No doubt that is what you conservatives believe , countryboy. You really believe that borrow and spend is the correct way."

Anyone that knows me knows full well that I am extremely opposed to "borrow and spend." So, your statement is a fabrication. That's it, plain and simple. Just wanted to set the record straight there.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You as the owner of a hot dog stand have decided the tertiary hot dog maker needs a pay raise, so then you give the secondary hot dog maker the same raise + plus 20% and the primary hot dog maker the raise + 30%. What do you do to make up this loss of money?

You need three employees besides yourself to run a hot dog stand? That means you are a lousy entrepreneur, you won’t stay in business for long anyway. A hot dog stand should not need more than one employee at most.

If four people are trying to live off one hot dog stand, how much money do you think any of them are going to make? Your example is clearly unrealistic. Your hot dog stand is probably already in trouble, before giving anybody any pay raises.

My advice to that stand owner would be, lay off at least two employees, get off your ass and work hard to make your hot dog stand a success. Oh, and grant the one remaining employee a living wage, don’t give him starvation wage.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Exactly what am I fabricating here?[/quote]

It's in your post #247. You said, "No doubt that is what you conservatives believe , countryboy. You really believe that borrow and spend is the correct way."

Anyone that knows me knows full well that I am extremely opposed to "borrow and spend." So, your statement is a fabrication. That's it, plain and simple. Just wanted to set the record straight there.

Really? Well, show me even one post by you where you have condemned the borrow and spend ways of a conservative politician. To my knowledge, you have never condemned borrow and spend economics. But I could be wrong, show me even one post.

 

[Francis2004]

I am not blaming Reagan for the recession, Francis. I am blaming him for going on spending spree on borrowed money, essentially having a party using the credit card, for racking up huge deficits. The deficit was not cleared up until Clinton came to power. Reagan popularized the borrow and spend philosophy among the conservatives.

Since Reagan’s time, conservatism has become synonymous with borrow and spend. I am blaming Reagan for that.

As to blaming Obama for the current economic meltdown, many conservatives do precisely that. They blame everybody and anybody except Bush and the Republicans.

SJP, sorry but borrow and spend started way before and only got worse during Reagan / Bush.. Look at history ( American ) and it is basically accepted that FDR started the ball rolling..

The buildup and involvement in World War II plus social programs during the F.D. Roosevelt and Truman presidencies in the 1930s and 40's caused a sixteenfold increase in the gross debt from $16 billion in 1930 to $260 billion in 1950. After this period, the growth of the gross debt closely matched the rate of inflation where it tripled in size from $260 billion in 1950 to around $909 billion in 1980. Gross debt in nominal dollars quadrupled during the Reagan and Bush presidencies from 1980 to 1992.

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Francis2004]

...and they're both thankful that the NDP had never gained a lot of traction in a federal election! :lol:

Ha ha ha.. I will gracefully refuse to comment at this time.. ;-)