Lady Gaga Fights For Gays

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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I was asked once by a JW what my opinion of homosexuality was. I said it was one of nature's ways of population control.

If you look at history, homosexuality has been around since we lived in caves. It seems to be part of being human, a natural phenomenon just like heterosexuality. But it seems to peak during the decline of empires which naturally become more decadent just before collapse. The American empire is collapsing and sexuality in general is becoming more decadent. At the same time, the self righteous become more fundamentally radical in their demands for a return to the oppressive ways of the past.

All attempts to regulate human behaviour, throughout history, have been met an equal resistance. The abolition of alcohol and drug usage, for example, have been miserable failures because you cannot go against human nature without serious backlash. Banning gays in the military will only result in more gays wanting to get into the military just to prove the injustice of the rules. Whether gay or straight, humans are humans and will behave as humans in spite of BS rhetoric from those who think behaviour can be regulated by more rules and oppression.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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I was asked once by a JW what my opinion of homosexuality was. I said it was one of nature's ways of population control.

If you look at history, homosexuality has been around since we lived in caves. It seems to be part of being human, a natural phenomenon just like heterosexuality. But it seems to peak during the decline of empires which naturally become more decadent just before collapse. The American empire is collapsing and sexuality in general is becoming more decadent. At the same time, the self righteous become more fundamentally radical in their demands for a return to the oppressive ways of the past.

All attempts to regulate human behaviour, throughout history, have been met an equal resistance. The abolition of alcohol and drug usage, for example, have been miserable failures because you cannot go against human nature without serious backlash. Banning gays in the military will only result in more gays wanting to get into the military just to prove the injustice of the rules. Whether gay or straight, humans are humans and will behave as humans in spite of BS rhetoric from those who think behaviour can be regulated by more rules and oppression.

Some of that is correct, cliffy.. but you fail to in fact credit homosexuality.. and specifically celebration and legitimization of homosexuality, with being both a cause and a symptom of societal decay. There has always been evil in society that is manifested in destructive (to the self or to others) behaviour.. but healthy societies are at least able to discern the difference between good and evil and develop laws and institutions to contain the latter.

Only societies racked with confusion and pessimism, and in the process of rejecting all the moral truths on which their culture was built, have lost that ability. It would be a mistake to think that vulnerable people, dealing with crises or a lack of any moral anchors in faith or upbringing won't victimized by these lies. I'm somewhat surprised you are even willing to concede that homosexuality is in fact a behaviour, comparable with alcoholism and drug abuse, but far more destructive to moral integrity.

And the Fall might not be of the American Empire, the U.S. being one of the last holdouts against this process.. but Western Civilization. We might be on the brink of new Dark Age, which will be brought in with economic chaos and war.
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Some of that is correct, cliffy.. but you fail to in fact credit homosexuality.. and specifically celebration and legitimization of homosexuality, with being both a cause and a symptom of societal decay. There has always been evil in society that is manifested in destructive (to the self or to others) behaviour.. but healthy societies are at least able to discern the difference between good and evil and develop laws and institutions to contain it.

Only societies racked with confusion and pessimism, and in the process of rejecting all the moral truths on which their culture was built, have lost that ability. It would be a mistake to think that vulnerable people, dealing with crises or a lack of any moral anchors in faith or upbringing won't victimized by these lies. I'm sonewhat surprised you are even willing to concede that homosexuality is in fact a behaviour, comparable with alcoholism and drug abuse, but far more destructive to moral integrity.

And the Fall might not be of the American Empire, the U.S. being one of the last holdouts against this process.. but Western Civilization. We might be on the brink of new Dark Age, which will be brought in with economic chaos and war.
Or we are on the brink of a new age of enlightenment, one that is accepting, honouring and tolerant of our diversity of beliefs, interests and behaviours of everybody. If I remember my history, it was the Catholic Church that brought on the last Dark Age.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
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In other words, you don't actually know of any.

Give us 3 physical negative effects of homosexuality.

I dare you.


He could, the problem he has is that those links and study's would be easily taken apart.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Or we are on the brink of a new age of enlightenment, one that is accepting, honouring and tolerant of our diversity of beliefs, interests and behaviours of everybody. If I remember my history, it was the Catholic Church that brought on the last Dark Age.


It doesn't work that way.. and Dark Ages last centuries, perhaps half a millenium of collapse of technology, population and rampant disease, famine, pestilence.. and a restoration of tribalism with its pagan blood cults and incessant violence and warfare. And as with the collapse of the Greco Roman Civilization, the spark of learning and order of a civilized society was kept alive Catholic monastaries in farflung places.

Homosexuality in legitimate and celebrated fashions is a symbol and accelerant of a process of degeneration. But it is certainly not the only factor. It reflects a loss of moral structure on which our entire socio-economic framework is constructed.

We see the results in the asecendent jungle of the predatory economics that is leading us into a Great Depression unlike any we have seen before, at least in the last 1000 years. And the loss of any sense of value in human life, as we see in the 50 million abortions in North America over the last 40 years, and the 'sacrifice' of human embryos to medical research, and the growing euthenasia cults.

It's all well advanced. There is a gathering storm that will hit us with avengance, within our life times and beyond.

In other words, you don't actually know of any.

Give us 3 physical negative effects of homosexuality.

I dare you.

I've already mentioned them, but maybe you don't think rampant disease, anonymous promiscuity, drug and alcohol dependence, depression, suicide, loneliness, dramatic decrease in life expectancy are sufficiently persuasive enough. Those are just some of the material effects.. i won't even touch on the spiritual costs.

The illusion of the happy homosexual couple, living a life of domestic bliss and monogamy is a myth. The reality is a life of carnal consumption, a nightmarish existence of fantasy ridden and unquenchable appetites, and increasing isolation for the aging homosexual.
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Perhaps you should take off your rose coloured glasses. The church conducted the Inquisition and witch burnings which brought on the end of learning through torture and repression. They stifled scientific inquiry and burned or hid all knowledge that did not sanctify their totalitarian reign of terror. The new age of enlightenment is something the church fears because their loss of power will be total. Their reign of terror is almost over, ignorance is being replaced by knowledge, bigotry by tolerance. You are becoming a dinosaur and the church will too if it does not reinvent itself. I cannot see that happening under the present pope who seems to be headed in the opposite direction.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
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Perhaps you should take off your rose coloured glasses. The church conducted the Inquisition and witch burnings which brought on the end of learning through torture and repression. They stifled scientific inquiry and burned or hid all knowledge that did not sanctify their totalitarian reign of terror. The new age of enlightenment is something the church fears because their loss of power will be total. Their reign of terror is almost over, ignorance is being replaced by knowledge, bigotry by tolerance. You are becoming a dinosaur and the church will too if it does not reinvent itself. I cannot see that happening under the present pope who seems to be headed in the opposite direction.

I've never contested that there has always been and is now imposters and charlatans that represent themselves as true representatives of the Church, but foment evil in its name, seeking to scatter the faithful. Christ himself warned of them. The trick is to discern what and who is genuine.

As to the rest of it, cliffy, we shall see what we shall see. If the post structural utopia you see is in fact imminent, its sure got off to a lousy start. :)
 

mikelanewell

New Member
Sep 30, 2010
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Lady gaga's phone number!!!!!

This is lady gaga's agents phone numbers prob gunna change them soon now that the public has them.

Moderator's Edit: Phone number removed.

There are two reasons why posting phone numbers is discouraged at CC:

1. The numbers could lead to a location different than the one listed(and then that place would have the phone numbers of the people that called and could continually harrass them with soliciting or some other nefarious plans).

2. Giving out another person's phone number, especially without their permission, while perhaps not illegal is certainly not cool. Would you like someone to post your telephone number on the internet?
 
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Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Re: Lady gaga's phone number!!!!!

This is lady gaga's agents phone numbers prob gunna change them soon now that the public has them.
What is the point of posting them? Do you have some sort of bone to pick with her agent?

I've never contested that there has always been and is now imposters and charlatans that represent themselves as true representatives of the Church, but foment evil in its name, seeking to scatter the faithful. Christ himself warned of them. The trick is to discern what and who is genuine.

As to the rest of it, cliffy, we shall see what we shall see. If the post structural utopia you see is in fact imminent, its sure got off to a lousy start. :)


Not any lousier than any other movement. Besides, what I am talking about is just a physical manifestation of a raise in consciousness. There is no organization, just an evolution (Christ consciousness?) in human awareness. Holding on to the past will result in retardation of that evolution.

Moderator's Edit: Phone number removed from quote.
 
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TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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I've already mentioned them, but maybe you don't think rampant disease, anonymous promiscuity, drug and alcohol dependence, depression, suicide, loneliness, dramatic decrease in life expectancy are sufficiently persuasive enough. Those are just some of the material effects.. i won't even touch on the spiritual costs.

Those aren't the effects of 'homosexuality'. Many heterosexual people suffer from rampant disease, anonymous promiscuity, drug and alcohol dependence, depression, suicide, loneliness, dramatic decrease in life expectancy.
 

Skatchie

Time Out
Sep 24, 2010
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Those aren't the effects of 'homosexuality'. Many heterosexual people suffer from rampant disease, anonymous promiscuity, drug and alcohol dependence, depression, suicide, loneliness, dramatic decrease in life expectancy.

They aren't the effects of homosexuality but you have to admit, the risk of these things goes up dramatically in the gay community. I don't have anything against gays either but that's just the facts.
 

Bcool

Dilettante
Aug 5, 2010
383
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Vancouver Island B.C.
It doesn't work that way.. and Dark Ages last centuries, perhaps half a millenium of collapse of technology, population and rampant disease, famine, pestilence.. and a restoration of tribalism with its pagan blood cults and incessant violence and warfare. And as with the collapse of the Greco Roman Civilization, the spark of learning and order of a civilized society was kept alive Catholic monastaries in farflung places.

Not an example that backs up your statement too well, in fact it refutes it: The term "Greek love" has come to signify the original English use of "Platonic love", that of a male-male sexual attraction made respectable by referring to antiquity. Greece became a reference point by homosexual men of a specific class and education. The first use of that phrase dates back to 1636 with "Platonic Lovers" by Sir William Davenant. EMLS 8.1 (May, 2002]: 4.1-36 "New Sects of Love"

The latter phrase was derived from the writings of Marsilio Ficino who coined the terms amor Socraticus. The concept of Platonic love formulated by Ficino referred exclusively to the affection between men: "Before Ficino's reformulation of the philosophy Platonic love was almost exclusively associated with homosexuality, a connection that appears to have prohibited proper scholarly investigation prior to the publication of Ficino's Commentary on Plato's Symposium on Love. Its homosexual and pederastic orientation led many theologians to deny or delete concepts of Platonic love from their larger discussions of Platonism. Jill Kraye points out several examples of this, such as the Camaldulensian monk Ambrogio Traversari who deleted the homosexual love poems attributed to Plato from his Latin version of Diogenes Laertius' Lives of the Philosophers in 1433, and George of Trebizond whose comparison of Aristotle and Plato in 1458 attempted to save Christendom from the immoral, and homosexual doctrines of Platonic love. Even Cardinal Bessarion's In calumniatorem Platonis, which defends Plato's attachment to young men as chaste, nevertheless asserts that the lustful poems were not actually by Plato. Ficino, on the other hand, accepts the notion of Platonic love, but interprets its homosexual aspect allegorically, asserting that the divinely inspired amatory fury of Platonic love involved a chaste relationship between men. Pico della Mirandola attributed this to the fact that Platonic love was directed at the soul or intellect, which was much more beautiful in men than women. But while Ficino, Pico and Bessarion "expunged any taint of carnal homosexuality from Platonic love, they did not question its homoerotic nature, nor its relegation of heterosexual love to an inferior status on the grounds that love between the sexes resulted in physical procreation, whereas love between men led to spiritual perfection." " EMLS 8.1 (May, 2002]: 4.1-36 "New Sects of Love"

The subject of Eros, and the traditions of male contact were repeated in many of the Roman sculptures described by Johann Winckelmann in a three volume set of books. Homosexual activity in ancient civilizations is common. Many civilizations offer few sexual options in a rigid class system. Greek men stayed within their own class, if not within their own gender. Marriage was expected but offered little more than relations to produce offspring, as the two genders were separated in public and traditionally did not even take meals together. Women were secluded in Ancient Greece. The natural step was to turn to who was available and accepting. Ancient sexuality was not approached as a gender specific attraction. Homosexuality, is also a modern term. It has only been in use for just 130 years. The concept of strict sexual separation of the genders is also a relatively new idea. Not until strict church doctrine taught this ideology did it become a moral issue. Up until that time there simply was little to no standard against it.

A true homosexual subculture did not exist in ancient Greece. Male same-sex relationships of the kind portrayed by the "Greek love" ideal were increasingly disallowed within the Judaeo-Christian traditions of Western society, though there was more tolerance within Asian cultures until recent times. The earliest reference to the modern ideology is from that of Marsilio Ficino after the fall of the Byzantine Empire. In his comments of Plato's work in 1469, Ficino describes "amor socraticus", however it must be said that Ficino, influenced by the church doctrine attempted to water down its meaning and concept and concluded that the male love was allegorical. In his commentary to the Symposium, Ficino carefully separates the act of sodomy, which he condemned, and lauded Socratic love as the highest form of friendship. He believed that men could use each other's beauty and friendship to discover the greatest good, that is, God. Ficino Christianised the theory of love presented by Socrates. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Marsilio Ficino

Homosexuality in legitimate and celebrated fashions is a symbol and accelerant of a process of degeneration. But it is certainly not the only factor. It reflects a loss of moral structure on which our entire socio-economic framework is constructed.

We see the results in the asecendent jungle of the predatory economics that is leading us into a Great Depression unlike any we have seen before, at least in the last 1000 years. And the loss of any sense of value in human life, as we see in the 50 million abortions in North America over the last 40 years, and the 'sacrifice' of human embryos to medical research, and the growing euthenasia cults.

It's all well advanced. There is a gathering storm that will hit us with avengance, within our life times and beyond.
Without citations to back up your claims, 50 million abortions being a medically impossible number to achieve based on the number of medical practitioners in NA over the last 40 years for instance, nothing of what you are saying can be regarded as credible. Even if one were to consider that claim with any logical view then you are, in essense, claiming that Canada (having a 10% equivalent of the US's population) would now have five million more citizens than in actuality whilst the US would have forty-five million more citizens! Given the average rate of growth for both countries over the past hundred years, a large amount of the increase being both countries high intake of immigrants, your numbers do not compute.

I've already mentioned them, but maybe you don't think rampant disease, anonymous promiscuity, drug and alcohol dependence, depression, suicide, loneliness, dramatic decrease in life expectancy are sufficiently persuasive enough. Those are just some of the material effects.. i won't even touch on the spiritual costs.

The illusion of the happy homosexual couple, living a life of domestic bliss and monogamy is a myth. The reality is a life of carnal consumption, a nightmarish existence of fantasy ridden and unquenchable appetites, and increasing isolation for the aging homosexual.
Again anecdotal, no citations. And how do you come by your such deep insight into the life of a homosexual? And your claims of all the ills and evils a homosexual experiences and society incurs? According to you...

And, supposing for the moment that your claims were factual (which I do not), what would be your remedy to eradicate homosexuality?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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They aren't the effects of homosexuality but you have to admit, the risk of these things goes up dramatically in the gay community. I don't have anything against gays either but that's just the facts.

That's completely beside the point, and I'm not debating whether it's true or not.

I'm waiting for the list of harmful effects of being homosexual.

Haven't seen it yet.

Don't really expect to, either.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
To start with I hear people judging others, even though the statement
made by Christ, was Judge not lest ye be judged.
First there is no one going to hell or anywhere else for that matter.
We may want to criticize people like Lady Gaga, for using her over
all popularity to draw attention to the plight of gays or some other star
fighting for another cause. What about the preacher the actual
symbol of religion using his influence to condemn others?
If we truly embraced equality, and human compassion there would be
no need for either side to promote a cause, because we would all be
open minded enough to accept people for who they are.
Unfortunately, the two major reasons for intolerance are alive and well.
Those being ignorance and fear. As a society, we have advanced
very little since the superstition of the Middle Ages, and we fail to
even acknowledge that. I would think if we were truly living up to our
potential, there would be no need for Lady Gaga or anyone else to
stand up for anyone. But the human condition always falls short.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
How many in this world just pay lip service to political correctness, and how many go on their merry way without even voicing an oppinion..........
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
To start with I hear people judging others, even though the statement
made by Christ, was Judge not lest ye be judged.
First there is no one going to hell or anywhere else for that matter.
We may want to criticize people like Lady Gaga, for using her over
all popularity to draw attention to the plight of gays or some other star
fighting for another cause. What about the preacher the actual
symbol of religion using his influence to condemn others?
If we truly embraced equality, and human compassion there would be
no need for either side to promote a cause, because we would all be
open minded enough to accept people for who they are.
Unfortunately, the two major reasons for intolerance are alive and well.
Those being ignorance and fear. As a society, we have advanced
very little since the superstition of the Middle Ages, and we fail to
even acknowledge that. I would think if we were truly living up to our
potential, there would be no need for Lady Gaga or anyone else to
stand up for anyone. But the human condition always falls short.

bump
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
Not an example that backs up your statement too well, in fact it refutes it: The term "Greek love" has come to signify the original English use of "Platonic love", that of a male-male sexual attraction made respectable by referring to antiquity. Greece became a reference point by homosexual men of a specific class and education. The first use of that phrase dates back to 1636 with "Platonic Lovers" by Sir William Davenant. EMLS 8.1 (May, 2002]: 4.1-36 "New Sects of Love"


And, supposing for the moment that your claims were factual (which I do not), what would be your remedy to eradicate homosexuality?


werner Jaeger wrote the most comprehensive study of Greek classical culture in Paideia. He noted that homosexuality existed in institutional forms amongst the Athenian aristocracy.. where pederasty was well established, and viewed with disgust by the general population. Your references are in fact from aristocratic sources, but you should not assume that homosexuality was accepted and condoned throughout Greek classical society.

Likewise in Sparta, homosexuality was engrained in the military culture, where it was used as a device to subordinate and bond soldiers to a military dictatorship.. in circumstances that robbed them of independent identity and viable sense of honour.

Homosexuality has existed in all cultures throughout history.. i do not contend it possible to 'eradicate' it. But its characterization as unnatural, disordered, destructive to the individual and society as a whole.. in fact an evil... is held by all vibrant, sustainable cultures.. not limited to Christian ones.

Only when a culture loses its civilizing impulse, its conformity to its originating moral order, does homosexuality rise to legitimate status.. in fact to a special status of a cult, as an identifying and exclusive element of specific class or institution.. since the wider public will never accept it as such.
 
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