Jesus never existed.

#juan

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juan, this has nothing to do with offending anyone, and everything to do with shining a light on the shadowy origins of the Christ myth...

The Christ myth? It is obvious that you have already decided that Christ was a myth

This is far too important a discussion, as it involves no less than the future direction we take as a species.
..

Our future direction will not be decided by people googling and cutting and pasting. There are thousands of historians who are well educated professional people who's business it is to separate the wheat from the chaff to determine the history of man. Trying to prove what happened at the time of Christ is an open trap for professional historians let alone amateur googlers.
 

MHz

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This is a deliberate and blatant lie put forth by the Christians because it is absolutely true that Matthew and Luke do not agree on the time that Jesus was born.

There is no record of an earlier census taken during Herod's reign, and no historical evidence to support that Quirinius held the seat of governor of Syria twice.

This was fabricated by Christians, because they knew it would be the death of their assertions that the bible was a historical document.
The article didn't say he held that seat twice, it indicated that he was governing by virtue of it being his recommendations that were listened to by the Governor which was Gaius Caesar.


28 B.C. (Augustus) 4,063,000 8 B.C. (Augustus) 4,233,000 A.D. 14 (Augustus) 4,937,000



These were not done in 1 day, more like 3 years from the start to the finish, so the one in 8 BC could have ended in 5BC (or a few days later if it was raining) That puts these events happening about every 20 years, you say there was 1 on 6AD, that would put it at every 10 years, which still works out to be fairly close.

Also I'd like you to point out how you figure Jesus could have aged 10 years in 31 days...
Who was the governor in 4BC? If it was a 'son' then it was a rule in name only, he would have been tutored on how to actually run things?
 

MHz

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Our future direction will not be decided by people googling and cutting and pasting. There are thousands of historians who are well educated professional people who's business it is to separate the wheat from the chaff to determine the history of man. Trying to prove what happened at the time of Christ is an open trap for professional historians let alone amateur googlers.
The first 20 references to Pilate would all say that he started in 26AD. Out of 100 links you won't find 20 that have the very same dates for somebody (not unknown) like Herod the great.
Mileage is going to vary for how accurate the info is. The more famous the person the more reliable the info (usually)is.
 

GreenFish66

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Jesus represents a lot of very smart men in his day!!

He should be remembered in the science books as a figure who realized we must respect the earth but it doesn't have to be at the center of our universe!!...Zietgiest theory may represent this best !..The sun was god back then ..The earth..The son of god!...But of course , time changes everyhting
 

GreenFish66

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If the earth is a living entity ..And the universe(or heavens) is god..There must be a human form to represent man!!...Remember these people were animals becoming humans!!..Just look to ol' sci-fi movies to see how things can change!...Having said that ..I think Jesus or the man who became known as The SUPER HERO jesus ..Might have been on to something eh!?...Kinda creepy what technology is capable of these days,,,,Our systems are formed by such beliefs!
 

Scott Free

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Jesus represents a lot of very smart men in his day!!

It is very unlikely anyone named Jesus, on which the Christ myth is based, ever existed.

If you were to say a lot of very smart men created the myth I would probably agree. Smart men have created many such myths through history of which the Christ myth is just another in a pile.
 

MHz

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It is very unlikely anyone named Jesus, on which the Christ myth is based, ever existed.

If you were to say a lot of very smart men created the myth I would probably agree. Smart men have created many such myths through history of which the Christ myth is just another in a pile.
Since that 'myth' is still going strong I would imagine it is a technique they would not abandon just yet. Know of anything happening these days that might be considered a myth? The really good ones seem to have to start from the top (rich) rather than from the bottom (poor).
 

Cliffy

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I find it interesting that many bible thumpers have made the statement that the bible is two thousand years old and people still believe (that crap). Well, the Vedas have been around for six thousand years and more people believe in that. Oops! I forgot. The world is only 4500 years old. Kinda creepy that people would believe that garbage.
 

MHz

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The Bible records about that many generations of men since Adam, I assume that is where you get the 4500 from. Please don't tell me you believe the Bible is talking about 24hr days (or even 1,000 years) when the 7 days associated with creation are given. I would find you kind of creepy if you did
 

Cliffy

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Please don't tell me you believe the Bible is talking about 24hr days (or even 1,000 years) when the 7 days associated with creation are given.

MHz,

I think the bible is a work of fiction. I was referring to the JWs and some lunatic fringe evangelicals.Just look at all the creationist museums popping up. They are advocating 4500 - 6000 year time lines featuring footprints of dinosaurs alongside human foot prints to prove their nonsense.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Please don't tell me you believe the Bible is talking about 24hr days (or even 1,000 years) when the 7 days associated with creation are given.
Why wouldn't a literalist believe that, when the Bible itself gives no reason to believe otherwise? It's not that long ago when that was the official dogma. Bishop Ussher in the 17th century calculated the first day of creation to be 23 October 4004 BC using that assumption, it was incorporated into a 1701 edition of the Bible and presented as a fact. He also calculated that Adam and Eve were driven from the garden on 10 November 4004 BC, and the Ark landed on 5 May 2348 BC. It's only the advance of science that's made it necessary to reinterpret the days of creation metaphorically, when it became clear that the world is much older than that..
 

Cliffy

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"Not one man in a thousand has the strength of mind or the goodness of heart to be an atheist."

Dexter,

and that is because an atheist doesn't need the threat of eternal damnation to be a good person.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I find it interesting that many bible thumpers have made the statement that the bible is two thousand years old and people still believe (that crap). Well, the Vedas have been around for six thousand years and more people believe in that. Oops! I forgot. The world is only 4500 years old. Kinda creepy that people would believe that garbage.

Cliffy, ancient Hindus were a lot smarter than ancient Christians (or at least more knowledgeable). Hindus postulated that earth is millions of years old (I think their chronology makes it 25 or 30 million years), unlike 5000 years old as Christians claim.

Another interesting aspect is that Hindus believe that God appeared on the earth nine times, he is going to appear for the tenth time. When he appears tenth time, end of the world will happen.

I think chances are very high that Christians got the idea of Second Coming from the ‘Tenth Coming’ described in Hinduism.

Anyway, here is the fascinating part. The nine forms of God were a fish, a turtle, a boar, half man half beast, a fully formed but a dwarf man, and the last four avatars were in the form of men.

This is the story of evolution. Ancient Hindus clearly knew that life evolved from simple to complex. Hindus were advanced in science, mathematics, biology, medicine (there is a several thousand year old treatise on Hindu medicine) etc.

Ancient Christians were living in Stone Age compared to Hindus. Hindus fell into decline in subsequent years and interestingly are making a comeback. India is an up and coming country, with a bright future.
 

MHz

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Why wouldn't a literalist believe that, when the Bible itself gives no reason to believe otherwise? It's not that long ago when that was the official dogma. Bishop Ussher in the 17th century calculated the first day of creation to be 23 October 4004 BC using that assumption, it was incorporated into a 1701 edition of the Bible and presented as a fact. He also calculated that Adam and Eve were driven from the garden on 10 November 4004 BC, and the Ark landed on 5 May 2348 BC. It's only the advance of science that's made it necessary to reinterpret the days of creation metaphorically, when it became clear that the world is much older than that..
Dexter, you are quite observant most of the time. The dating you gave does seem to point to those two dates being accurate for the events listed.
Even with your disdain for the Bible would you really expect the term 'day' be taken to mean 24hrs. That definition of day didn't even come into being until "day 4".
Even in the 2nd chapter it gives generations of the Earth when it starts to describe most of the events from the previous chapter, as a literalist I also have to take that word into consideration. A day of creation is the same as a generation of the earth. Doesn't that point to a different length of time than 24 hrs? The 1,000 years for a day doesn't apply to this, it is meant for something else.

God wasn't on the earth when He created it but He was somewhere. If that somewhere has something called a 'day' then that is what the word was referencing. If on Earth as in Heaven has real meaning then where He was has something called a day.

What about when time is up for Christ's absence at the end of one day and the beginning of the Day of the LORD which actually lasts forever (once it begins)?

How long was His day of rest, after all the creation all He gets is a couple of hours off? Did Satan mess with Eve at the beginning or the end of that day?

If God took the whole 6 billion years it still wouldn't be an issue since He would have been there the whole time, 1 whole week for 7 full days when stationed in Heaven which is not on the same time-scale that we are.

There is something called a new earth supposedly coming, it will even have a place called New Jerusalem which looks quite different from 'our' Jerusalem. When people are going out into this new world will they be allowed to use any names that are now only applied to places on this world?

The question about time where God was when He was creating is the important question of this post, could their 'day' be at a different (time) scale than what a day on earth is?
 
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Cliffy

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Ancient Christians were living in Stone Age compared to Hindus.

SirJoseph,

The Hindus were a civilization when the Jews were still humping their goats out in the desert. Christianity today is about as advanced a religion as goat humping., in other words a mind phuk.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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I never existed either. Not yet any way. But boy, you just wait until I do then there will be hell to pay if hell existed. Maybe you don't exist either that way no-one has to pay anyone anything and hell is of no concern either wich ultimately make Jesus moot as there is no-one to save from something that never existed.
 

petros

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If you didn't figure that out, it means if Jesus existed he doesn't any longer because if he was a god he would still exist and not be presented in a past tense.

The correct question therefore is ; "does Jesus exist"?
 
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