It's time to bring the death penalty back!

[AnnaG]

I was trying to find out if prisoners do anything of use to anyone while in custody rather than watch tv, play billiards, read books, or study for degrees and found this. They get a wage so I guess they must work at something. prison facts & statistics

 

[Sporty883]

First of all...the case of Guy Paul Morin.....

Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secondly, you commit a grave error when you de-humanize people......"not capable of normal human feelings" is simple ridiculous, especially considering you have lumped all pedophiles into one ball.....not all are murderers or sexual sadists.

Third item....please define "child".[/quote ]
???? So you are saying that some pedophiles are decent people,,, because they do not kill, and yes they all are sexual sadists, and they all kill.
If you need child defined, then you got problems all your own...
I will stand by what I say, feel, and believe. As a mother, and a decent human being.

 

[JLM]

These type are not liberal, they have never loved a child, nor have respect for youth, or for life. A pedophile is not capable of normal human feelings so why treat them as such...

My sentiments exactly- I just have one slight problem, you could be on a slippery slope once someone is appointed to decide who lives and who dies, but then I suppose that problem could be resolved by just appointing either you or me to do it. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Colpy]

First of all...the case of Guy Paul Morin.....

Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secondly, you commit a grave error when you de-humanize people......"not capable of normal human feelings" is simple ridiculous, especially considering you have lumped all pedophiles into one ball.....not all are murderers or sexual sadists.

Third item....please define "child".[/quote ]
???? So you are saying that some pedophiles are decent people,,, because they do not kill, and yes they all are sexual sadists, and they all kill.
If you need child defined, then you got problems all your own...
I will stand by what I say, feel, and believe. As a mother, and a decent human being.

No, I am not saying pedophiles are "decent" people.....not at all.

NO most emphatically NO.....the VAST majority of pedophiles are neither sexual sadists nor are they killers. You need to get past your emotion and deal with this on a rational level. Pedophilia is a perversion, it is not necessarily even violent in nature.

"Child" needs definition, as some consider all under the age of 18 as "children" the law considers the age of sexual consent to be 16 (just raised from 14) and people often consentually engage in sexual conduct well before the age of 16.

I point to the guy in Maine murdered by the nut from PEI because his name was on the Sex Offenders' registry......he had been convicted while a teenager (17? 18? 19? I forget) of having sex with a 14 year old girl. I suspect you would have had him executed........

The "victim" was his wife at the time of his murder.

I notice you failed to deal with the case of Morin.....

Thankfully, we don't live in Iran, and the punishment still fits the crime......

 

[JLM]

First of all...the case of Guy Paul Morin.....

Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secondly, you commit a grave error when you de-humanize people......"not capable of normal human feelings" is simple ridiculous, especially considering you have lumped all pedophiles into one ball.....not all are murderers or sexual sadists.

Third item....please define "child".

OK Colpy, I'll give you the answers to all 3- Guy Paul Morin was not a mistake of the system so much as a human mistake- system just needs a little fine tuning to correct that.

Delumping pedophiles and murderers- There are thousand of psychiatrists, psychologists and various other shrinks who are paid good money to take responsibility for that sort of thing.

A child in British Columbia is any person under the age of 19- I don't know if this is a provincial classification or a federal one.

Now you can quit thinking for the rest of the day, Colpy........................:lol::lol::lol:

 

[gerryh]

You wisdom is evident again. Yes I guess it would be a dead heat as long as the nay sayers simply say they don't believe in it and I say I don't believe in it either with the exception of a very few cases, but then when I add that I feel the lives I'm trying to save are more valuable than the ones they are trying to save, at which point I win.

My reason for not supporting the death penalty is twofold. One, I don't feel we have the right to kill anyone for any reason. Barring that, two, no one can gaurantee that with the implenatation of the death penaly that innocent people might not be wrongly put to death.

So, from my second reason, JLM, do you feel that the wrongly executeds life is somehow worth less than the the person that might be killed by a reoffender?

I would prefer to see no possibility of reoffending by making a life term exactley that, a life term with no parole.

 

[JLM]

"Prisoners' Wages

• In 1981, the daily wage rate for a federal prisoner was $7.55 and a canteen basket cost $8.49.
• In 2007, the daily wage rate for a federal prisoner is $6.90 and that same canteen basket now costs $61.59."

Where in the hell is the Union when they are needed? So much for their raving about sticking up for the under privileged. That just goes to show how much your Union will do for you when the chips are really down............LOL

 

[AnnaG]

I would prefer to see no possibility of reoffending by making a life term exactley that, a life term with no parole.

Me, too. And preferably a life sentence with very little luxury if any.

 

[AnnaG]

"Prisoners' Wages

• In 1981, the daily wage rate for a federal prisoner was $7.55 and a canteen basket cost $8.49.
• In 2007, the daily wage rate for a federal prisoner is $6.90 and that same canteen basket now costs $61.59."

Where in the hell is the Union when they are needed? So much for their raving about sticking up for the under privileged. That just goes to show how much your Union will do for you when the chips are really down............LOL

IMO, they get what they deserve. They aren't much as human beings so they aren't worth much wage-wise.

 

[JLM]

My reason for not supporting the death penalty is twofold. One, I don't feel we have the right to kill anyone for any reason. Barring that, two, no one can gaurantee that with the implenatation of the death penaly that innocent people might not be wrongly put to death.

So, from my second reason, JLM, do you feel that the wrongly executeds life is somehow worth less than the the person that might be killed by a reoffender?

I would prefer to see no possibility of reoffending by making a life term exactley that, a life term with no parole.

You make good points Gerry. I guess if you want absolute certainty about anything in life, you just aren't going to get it. I think though with a little fine tuning of the system we could at least move in the right direction. Less innocent lives taken.

 

[JLM]

IMO, they get what they deserve. They aren't much as human beings so they aren't worth much wage-wise.

Yeah, but back in the days when men were men no self respecting Union guy would stand for this sort of thing and also when the Unions had teeth none of these prisoners could work because they were taking jobs away from people who could be much higher paid................................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

I can't find a list of the jobs that prisoners do. It would make sense that some do cooking, laundry services, library, and janitorial duties, but other than those all I could find was that at one time, prisoners in BC made license plates for vehicles. Maybe I'll try a canada.gov.ca site and see if the feds have any info.
Anyway, perhaps if these people earned their way out of prison, it'd help some of them straighten out.

 

[Risus]

Me, too. And preferably a life sentence with very little luxury if any.

I agree. Why should they even have a TV?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I think the govt. would save a ton of money if they would just put these guys to work doing the crap jobs that nobody wants to do... like cleaning the sewers or sifting garbage for recyclable materials, cleaning graffiti. I mean, they could do this on a volunteer basis and the reward (whatever it may be) could be something that the criminal can look forward to. But the key is that they do not get paid for their work.

That could very well be done, there is nothing in the Charter that says criminals cannot be put to work. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

However, we are discussing death penalty here, the rights and the wrongs of it and in my opinion, death penalty is very wrong.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You make good points Gerry. I guess if you want absolute certainty about anything in life, you just aren't going to get it. I think though with a little fine tuning of the system we could at least move in the right direction. Less innocent lives taken.

That is not good enough, JLM. What is the meaning of ‘less innocent lives taken’? Does that mean that only 5 innocent people will be executed instead of ten?

Our justice system says that not even one innocent person must be executed. That is not what our current justice system provides. The standard of finding somebody guilty of murder is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’, not ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt’.

As long as there is even a remote possibility of an innocent person being executed, I don’t see any way the courts will permit the death penalty. Nor will population in general will be in favour of it.

 

[JLM]

That is not good enough, JLM. What is the meaning of ‘less innocent lives taken’? Does that mean that only 5 innocent people will be executed instead of ten?

Our justice system says that not even one innocent person must be executed. That is not what our current justice system provides. The standard of finding somebody guilty of murder is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’, not ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt’.

As long as there is even a remote possibility of an innocent person being executed, I don’t see any way the courts will permit the death penalty. Nor will population in general will be in favour of it.

I don't think even one innocent person should be executed either. THAT is a good goal to strive for once it's been achieved that no innocent people are murdered.

 

[JLM]

I can't find a list of the jobs that prisoners do. It would make sense that some do cooking, laundry services, library, and janitorial duties, but other than those all I could find was that at one time, prisoners in BC made license plates for vehicles. Maybe I'll try a canada.gov.ca site and see if the feds have any info.
Anyway, perhaps if these people earned their way out of prison, it'd help some of them straighten out.

I fully agree, with each leg secured to the end of a 3' length of chain that weighs 100 lbs. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Sporty883]

No, I am not saying pedophiles are "decent" people.....not at all.

NO most emphatically NO.....the VAST majority of pedophiles are neither sexual sadists nor are they killers. You need to get past your emotion and deal with this on a rational level. Pedophilia is a perversion, it is not necessarily even violent in nature.

"Child" needs definition, as some consider all under the age of 18 as "children" the law considers the age of sexual consent to be 16 (just raised from 14) and people often consentually engage in sexual conduct well before the age of 16.

I point to the guy in Maine murdered by the nut from PEI because his name was on the Sex Offenders' registry......he had been convicted while a teenager (17? 18? 19? I forget) of having sex with a 14 year old girl. I suspect you would have had him executed........

The "victim" was his wife at the time of his murder.

I notice you failed to deal with the case of Morin.....

Thankfully, we don't live in Iran, and the punishment still fits the crime......

I will stick with my emotions as they are what guides me in life, and seperates me from those that are so clinical,,with no emotion.
Found your pomposity amusing though...I always do. Or do you really think to assume to know me an my emotions, that too is a bit presumptious, very immature, and not a basis to stand on.

 

[JLM]

"So, from my second reason, JLM, do you feel that the wrongly executeds life is somehow worth less than the the person that might be killed by a reoffender?"

I would never want to be put in the position of having to decide what each human life is worth. Having said that, and having to make the choice between an innocent child and a convict who is innocent of the particular crime he is being executed for but at the same time guilty of other heinous crimes, there's no doubt which side I would come down on. Gerry, I've made it very clear that I would never advocate the death penalty for anyone "guilty" of a single crime no matter how heinous the crime. So technically speaking you'd never be executing an "innocent" person.

 

[Sporty883]

Let them mingle with the other prisoners if you are too weak to take their life. Because if you do not know of anyone who has suffered a pedophile or you yourself, then you know nothing of what you talk about.
The minute they touch a child, in any way, they have stolen that life. So for that they should have theirs taken from them. Emotions, damn straight, when scum is allowed to live, and a innocent isn't, that to me is really sick. I don't care if they kill or not, they are not worth the privilege of 'LIFE'! I would love to be the executioner...