Israel...

[einmensch]

So funny soc--really shows biassss

How many lies need to be exposed before all needs to be questioned?

 

[einmensch]

If he is in Germany, then yes, he could go to jail.

I actually applaud the decision. The business of the church isn't historical record, its the Christian faith and honestly, that isn't their business. I don't agree with holocaust denial as it always seems to be based upon a dislike of Jews rather than an interest in history (notice thats always the only genocide that ever gets denied by the nut balls), but I don't think that say McDonald's should fire someone for being a holocaust denial as their job is to make "food" not set historical record.

Nut balls? Zz You mean the same nut balls that proved all those other lies on which people were sentenced to death--not very knowledgeable are you ---just ignorantly arrogant --something the nut balls weren't-they just provided proof of lies, the lies you support.
Many of us I'm sure could not care less what you applaud!
You need to talk to the Rabbis and ask them to discard all the Historical Recording that they have done over the centuries or does your comment come in handy right now and is really meaningless?
A Bishop has no business stating truth. So if a Bishop believes this or that is true, he should ignore what he believes to be true and let that which he considers to be untrue prevail. Interesting Zz! Charges need to be laid against the Bishop. Let it go to court! Williamson and the Pharisees-? What a trial that would be.


The shoe throwing Bishop

Loon --The Germans, Austrians, etc need to demand forensic investigation-What are they are going to do >>>put 50 million Truth Seekers in Prison?
Zz - TRUTH is not anti or hateful--lies are-You have difficulty with that concept. Work on it, Eh?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

So funny soc--really shows biassss

How many lies need to be exposed before all needs to be questioned?

Good day to you einmensch, by the way I like both people the Jews and the Arabs.
, history will never change, the hatred between the Jews and the Arabs isn’t anything new and it will remain ongoing for thousands of years to come. I hate to be a pessimist on the Israeli Palestinian issue, but looking at history as a guide or compass it points to the direction of intimidation and continues rock throwing at each other, unless both sides through some meaningful understanding they withdraw from killing and instead adopt living with each other in a tolerant as well meaningful way..

 

[Risus]

Good day to you einmensch, by the way I like both people the Jews and the Arabs.
, history will never change, the hatred between the Jews and the Arabs isn’t anything new and it will remain ongoing for thousands of years to come. I hate to be a pessimist on the Israeli Palestinian issue, but looking at history as a guide or compass it points to the direction of intimidation and continues rock throwing at each other, unless both sides through some meaningful understanding they withdraw from killing and instead adopt living with each other in a tolerant as well meaningful way..

I agree with you Soc. There will never be peace in the middle east...

 

[Socrates the Greek]

I agree with you Soc. There will never be peace in the middle east...

Risus good evening to you pal.....war is bad...........our human history has always been seen wearing the adversarial coat.

 

[einmensch]

Zz quote---It is hard to swallow that blankets infected with deadly diseases were intentionally passed out to Natives to maim and kill innocent women and children on a civilization collapsing scale. Never the less it occurred.

Didn't history say how kind we were to give them blankets to keep them warm??

 

[lone wolf]

See ... I believe there is BS from both sides and I believe there is truth from both sides, The facts always lay somewhere between. The more hate is drawn into the mix, the more I tend to believe the hatemonger is hiding facts. You are doing your quest no service, Munchie....

 

[earth_as_one]

Anyone can draw a cartoon.

How about some evidence?

First what is a human shield? This video compares the Israeli and Palestinian definitions:
YouTube - In Gaza Conflict - Which Side Is Using Human Shields?

These images, videos and news reports confirm that the IDF uses civilians as human shields in the direct sense:

Israel bans use of human shields

The practice of using human shields is against international law

Israel's supreme court has banned the use of Palestinian human shields in arrest raids, saying the practice violates international law.

The court issued a temporary injunction against the practice in 2002 after a teenager was killed when troops made him negotiate with a wanted militant.

Human rights groups who brought the case say the Israeli army has repeatedly violated the temporary ban. The army cannot use civilians for its purposes, Israel's chief justice said. "You cannot exploit the civilian population for the army's military needs, and you cannot force them to collaborate with the army," Aharon Barak said....

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israel bans use of human shields

20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun

B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.

After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her....

B'Tselem - Human Shields - 20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun

More Recently in Gaza:

Israel accused of using farmers as human shields

Jason Koutoukis in Gaza City
January 28, 2009

METHODS used by the Israel Defence Forces in their assault on the Gaza Strip have raised questions about whether Israeli military commanders authorised the use of Palestinians as human shields - a charge Israel has repeatedly made against Hamas.

Palestinian farmers from the neighbourhood of al-Atatra, about 10 kilometres north of the centre of Gaza City, said Israeli ground troops arrived in the area on January 7.

Samir Abu Dayer, 59, a farmer, said soldiers occupied several hectares of farmland behind his house. The fields that before the war produced olives, oranges and lemons are now a large stretch of pale yellow sand and broken irrigation pipes.

A sandpit roughly the size of an Olympic pool, with four walls about two metres high pushed together by bulldozers, dominates one field.

According to Mr Dayer, and several other residents whose houses bordered the field, Israeli troops quickly evacuated the surrounding houses. "They entered my house with a tank," Mr Dayer said. "I was told to come outside with my family."

Told to strip to his underwear, Mr Dayer said his hands were tied behind his back with white plastic cables, then he was moved into the sandpit area.

Mohammed Madhoun, 22, a media and public relations student at the Al-Aqsa University, whose home is across a laneway from Mr Dayer's home, said he and his parents were ordered to do the same.

"I was told to take off my clothes by one soldier, told to put them on again by another, and then take them off again. My hands were tied and I was taken into this area," Mr Madhoun said, pointing to the sandpit.

Ali Ajramy, 39, a tailor, thrust his hands forward to show the sores on his wrists caused by plastic cables

"I was taken into this prison," he said. "And I was told to be quiet and kneel down."

The three were among about 85 men who were moved into the sandpit area and gathered at the western end.

They said the Israeli troops then took position around perimeter of the sandpit area and began to engage with Palestinian resistance fighters. "We kept our heads down, we didn't move for two days," Mr Madhoun said. "There was lots of shooting over our heads but I don't know where it was coming from. We were given blankets and food."

Empty cans of Israeli rations litter the sandpit. The soldiers dug several foxholes.

"After two days we were taken to Beersheva, in Israel," Mr Dayer said. "We were there for five days and then brought back to Gaza and freed." He showed Herald a release form in Hebrew, given when they were returned to Gaza....

Israel accused of using farmers as human shields - World - smh.com.au

and so on...

The Israeli army claim Hamas used civilians in the indirect sense, by taking up positions near civilians. They don't claim that Hamas rounded up civilians and then used them directly as human shields.

Considering that Israel deliberately violated the ceasefire with Hamas on Nov. 4, 2008 and then used the resulting violence to justify turning an urban area into a war zone, Israel has to shoulder some of the responsibility for the inevitable civilian casualties.

 

[einmensch]

It seems soc that Jews and Arabs got along quite well from the time of the Prophet Mohammed on until 1948. Jews were in government positions etc. After 1948 they became bitter enemies. And 60 years of hate education from crib to death will take time to reverse. Obama is president. 60 years ago he had to urinate in a black only toilet. Israel has been offered peace? Has it not?

 

[lone wolf]

For your entertainment, Munchies, at 0100 Eastern, TVO has a documentary of Aushwitz and the Nazis. Time to ping rocks at your TV?

 

[In Between Man]

Israel has been offered peace? Has it not?

Yeah, peace for land. What kind of a deal is that?

 

[In Between Man]

I'm all in favour of a two state solution, providing the temple on the dome is replaced with the jewish temple.

 

[einmensch]

Wolf, China-Do you have anything intelligent to say?

 

[lone wolf]

Wolf, China-Do you have anything intelligent to say?

I'm waiting for something bright from you, sweetie pie....

 

[Colpy]

After Barak opened up serious talks on a two-state solution, there was a time of relative peace, a time of hope in both Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

it is true the Palrstinians were not offered everything, it is true that Israel certainly operated and negotiated from a position of strength, but the Palestinians were offered a nation........and the common people on both sides looked at the prospect of peace with joy and anticipation......but it got, to say the least, bogged down in the details......

One of the major details was Arafat's fear that his corruption would be exposed, that the world would be made aware of the BILLIONS !!!! of dollars he stole from his people......that he would become a pariah, or worse yet, a joke......so instead of dealing in good faith....he called out for a second intifada, and hope was dashed.

Follow that by the Palestinian peoples' choice of genocidal Hamas over corrupt Fatah, the failure of the unilateral withdrawal Israel made from Gaza, forcing settlers out as well, and the continuing, never-ending violence.....and Israelis have given up on peace. the Israeli peace movement has become a side-show, the Israelis are simply fed up...

The tragedy is that today's elections in Israel could lead tp the balance-of-power being in the hands of a right-wing lunatic.........whether Kadima or Likud win, it seems a party led by a nut named Lieberman will come in third.......Lieberman wants the expulsion of Arab Israelis.......Lieberman is so far right he can't see the middle, and Lieberman's party may well displace the leftist Labour Party as number three.....that is how far Israeli public opinion has withdrawn from the concept of a possible peace.

This is a tragedy.

I only hope that Kadima and Likud have the good sense tom form a national government together, reach agreement for the national good, and keep Lieberman as far away from power as possible.

 

[Zzarchov]

If Lieberman actually gets his way, I hope the west boycotts Israel and sets up an embargo.

 

[earth_as_one]

Can I hold you guys to those opinions?

Most Israelis including the leaders of the major parties support stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship and transferring them to the Palestinian concentration camps where they can be bombed and starved like the rest.

Apr 1, 2008 7:23
Poll: Israelis favor Arab transfer to Palestine


A total of 76 percent of Israeli Jews give some degree of support to transferring Israeli Arabs to a future Palestinian state, a poll commissioned by the Knesset Channel revealed, Monday.


The poll, conducted over the Internet, included 668 adult Israeli Jews representing the entire political spectrum, cites a 3.7% margin of error.

The poll asked participants whether as part of an agreement to establish a Palestinian state there would be justification to demand that Arabs with Israeli citizenship relocate to Palestinian territory.

Only 24% were totally against the idea.

Of the remaining 76%, 29% said all Israeli Arabs should relocate. An additional 19% said only Arabs living in close proximity to the Palestinian state should relocate, and 28% said transfer should be decided based on loyalty or disloyalty to the State of Israel.
The data reflects Jewish Israelis' distrust of Arabs national priorities. A total of 50% said Arabs identify first and foremost with the Palestinian cause and see their Israeli loyalty as secondary, while 40% said Arabs identify solely with Palestinians, and only a single percent thought Arabs identify wholly with their Israeli identity...

Poll: Israelis favor Arab transfer to Palestine | Israel | Jerusalem Post

Lieberman just has the balls to say openly what most Israelis believe but are too ashamed to admit.

Netanyahu fully supports Lieberman's transfer bill.

06/02/2009

Elections 2009 / Netanyahu: Lieberman campaign against Israeli Arabs is 'legitimate'

By Haaretz Service

Likud chairman Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday branded as "legitimate" rival prime ministerial candidate Avigdor Lieberman's electoral campaign against Israeli Arabs.

"This is a legitimate bill, which has already been proposed by Likud MK Yisrael Katz, but the problem with it is enforcement. It is legitimate to demand that the citizens of a state should be loyal to it," said Netanyahu in an interview with Channel 2.

Netanyahu was referring to Lieberman's vow to pass a citizenship law that will "prevent the disloyalty of some of Israel's Arabs."

Lieberman's hardline Yisrael Beiteinu has built its campaign ahead of next week's general election around the slogan: "No citizenship without loyalty," which is directed at Israeli Arabs...

https://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1061976.html

So does Livni:

FM takes heat over Israeli Arab remark
Dec. 11, 2008
abe selig , THE JERUSALEM POST

Kadima leader Tzipi Livni signalled on Thursday that she believed Israeli Arabs could best fulfill their nationalist goals by moving to a future Palestinian state.
"My solution for maintaining a Jewish and democratic State of Israel is to have two nation-states with certain concessions and with clear red lines," Livni told a group of students at a Tel Aviv high school. "And among other things, I will also be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel, those whom we call Israeli Arabs, and tell them, 'your national solution lies elsewhere.'" ...

FM takes heat over Israeli Arab remark | Jerusalem Post

Later she tried to retract and obscure the statement.

But many groups in Israel openly talk about ethnically cleansing Israel of non-Jews:

...For all those who declare that transfer is unachievable and impractical it is worth recalling the words of Theodor Herzl that "if the Jews wish to have a State, they will have it." When these words were written in the book The Jewish State they were only a utopian dream. Herzl wrote,


The plan [to create a Jewish state] would of course, seem absurd if a single individual attempted to carry it out; but if worked out by a number of Jews in co-operation it would appear perfectly rational, and its accomplishment would present no insurmountable difficulties. The idea depends only on the number of its supporters.

The dream of the great Jewish prophet has materialized. The Jews have built their state. To be more precise, they have made many important steps on the road to its realization. However, without the final step - the transfer of the Arabs - the task of building the Jewish state cannot be considered complete. Perhaps if the Arab attitude toward the presence of Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael had been different, this would not be necessary. However, history has made it clear that this is the only way to achieve a permanent and stable resolution to the conflict. And each passing day without resolving the issue weakens Israel more and more, bringing closer the inevitable demise to which the present course of action will lead.

There are three major reasons that make the transfer of the Arabs out of Eretz Yisrael an absolute necessity. First, physically putting some distance between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs will completely eradicate any capacity (and, in the long run, desire as well) they have for violence toward Jews. Secondly, it will eliminate the demographic threat to the Jewish state. And thirdly, it will allow Israel to further develop under conditions most appropriate for the Jewish nation - the people that dwells alone....

The Logistics of Transfer

 

[earth_as_one]

After Barak opened up serious talks on a two-state solution, there was a time of relative peace, a time of hope in both Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

it is true the Palrstinians were not offered everything, it is true that Israel certainly operated and negotiated from a position of strength, but the Palestinians were offered a nation........and the common people on both sides looked at the prospect of peace with joy and anticipation......but it got, to say the least, bogged down in the details.......

C, when a used car dealer tells you he's offering you a great deal, do you believe them? The Israeli negotiators offered the Palestinians the status quo politically with a few extras like swapping huge areas of Palestinian arable land for less Israeli land which consisted of mostly desert and responsibility for cleaning up several Israeli toxic waste dumps. Palestinians would also have to give up their UN recognized right of millions of Palestinians ethnically cleansed off their land over the years to compensation or return of their property.

Read Arafat's letter to Clinton regarding the peace deal:
MEMRI: Special Dispatch - No. 170

After Israel offered their take it or leave it deal, they went on a PR campaign to sell it internationally. Some suckers like yourself obviously bought what Israel was selling. If you want to buy some swamp land, I mean "water front" property in Florida, I can put you in touch with someone who will offer you a great deal.

I agree Arafat and Fatah in general are corrupt. That's why Palestinians elect Hamas in the last election. When is Fatah going to hand over power as per the terms of the Palestinian constitution? When is the US and Israel going to recognize that Hamas won the election fairly and stop arming their opponents who remain in power by military force?

As Arafat got old, he became more interested in a his legacy. If he had accepted this deal, he would have been ridiculed. The deal was not a chance for peace. The deal had nothing in it which prevented Israel from continuing to bomb and starve Palestinians. The deal would have been one final annexation of more Palestinian land in exchange for Palestinians legitimizing 60 years of illegal Israeli activity.

The deal was analagous to a thief offering to keep what he has stolen in exchange for more money and the victim agreeing not to press charges and accepting a bag of excrement.

Read Arafat's letter to Clinton regarding the peace deal:
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP17001

 

[Colpy]

As I said, the deal was far from perfect.....but it would have given the Palestinians a nation.......a place from which to progress. Instead, since tha second intifada, all the West Bank and Gaza have done is regressed....

Indeed, they were better off in Gaza under Israeli occupation....Hamas throws those who disagree with their Islamo-fascist ideas off the roofs of high buildings, and is guilty of extra-judicial executions by the score, torture, knee-capping and a general rule of terror.

You quote Arafat? Let us make something perfectly clear: Arafat never wanted a deal. In fact, he was terrified there would be a deal, as the reason for his personal domination of the Palestinian refugees would then disappear, and it was very possible it would become common knowledge that he personally stole BILLIONS (that's with a "B") of aid dollars from his impoverished people.....

One of the reasons Hamas has enjoyed such success in getting themselves elected (forever, I guess, as there will be no more elections) is the blatant corruption of Fatah.

As for the right of return?

Laughable.

Right now the ability of ISRAELI Arabs to stay in Israel is in doubt.

You have to deal with the possible.....that is my point.

 

[earth_as_one]

Colpy,

I bet you never read Arafat's letter:
MEMRI: Special Dispatch - No. 170
If you did, you'd know what Israel offered Palestinians was insulting.

I agree Hamas is a nasty organization. They are the democratically elected result of 60 years of Palestinian oppression and injustice.

Your sense of humor seems rather sadistic. I don't find anything funny about ethnic cleansing and denial of justice. You'll have to explain that joke to me.

I never knew you were so offended by torture, extrajucial assassinations, knee capping and terror. How do you reconcile this with your support of Israel which has tortured, assassinated, knee capped and terrorized far more people than Hamas ever will.

You are very selective in who offends you Colpy.

I don't think Canada or Canadians should support any organization or countries which do these things. Why do you support Israel's right to do these things but are against Hamas doing the same thing? That seems rather hypocritical...

Wednesday, 1 August, 2001, 21:01 GMT 22:01 UK
Israel's 'assassination policy'

Remains of a car hit by an Israeli rocket


By BBC News Online's Tarik Kafala The Israeli Government of Ariel Sharon is, like its predecessors, committed to the policy of assassinating individuals who it believes pose a threat to its citizens....

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israel's 'assassination policy'

Israeli Soldiers Break Palestinians Youth´s Elbow With Rock
Israeli Soldiers Break Palestinians Youth´s Elbow With Rock

B'Tselem - Torture

B'Tselem - Statistics - Fatalities

B'Tselem - Video - Testimony: 13 year-old beaten during interrogation and imprisoned for two months

There is the possible and then there is the inevitable. Anything is possible, but inevitably what goes around, comes around.