Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

Does Israel have the right to exist with secure borders free from attack


  • Total voters
    42

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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try it with the sound turned up

"Said tunnels" is only a claim, bring in a backhoe and dissect the earth to show there was a tunnel there. Looks more like a road building operation as there is a pad some hundred meters long before they get close to any building. Looks more like a continuation of this program.
:lol: Even if all the evidence proved this fact, you'ld still deny it was a military tunnel. And here's why i know that you would be so blind...

[SIZE=+1]The Massacre at Dair Yasin:[/SIZE]
Was committed by a paramilitary militia, not a sanctioned Israeli unit. It was condemned by the provisional Israeli Gov't, The head of the Israeli Army at the time, and came complete with an apology to the King of Jordan.
[SIZE=+1]NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE:[/SIZE]
I haven't sufficient information on this one, so I will reserve comment, something you should partake of measurably.

[SIZE=+1]THE TANTURA MASSACRE:[/SIZE]
The person who wrote this story, Theodore Katz, was successfully sued by the Forces that he accused of the massacre.

He retracted his "thesis" and was stripped of his degree for falsely making accusations...

Try some harder research, instead of parroting and cut & pastes.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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MHz, she went there with the expressed purpose of being a human shield. She did just that and lost.

I can't wait until this vexatious case is dismissed without prejudice.

Indeed. Urged on by her "radical professors". I hope they are proud of their influence on Rachel. Instead of sipping latte's while vacationing on Puget Sound she chose to kneel down in front of an Israeli Military Bulldozer. She had no business being there.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Try some harder research, instead of parroting and cut & pastes.

NP, that link is just for the list, many other sites carry the details, like th

(in part)
[SIZE=-1]Now back to the case.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Katz himself was the first and only witness to testify in the trial. At the end of the second day of proceedings, something rather shocking happened: Katz agreed to an out-of-court settlement, signing an "apology" in which he admitted that what had happened in Tantura was not a "massacre" -- this word was used in the apology and denying it seems to have been the entire point. The irony is that the real issue, whether civilians and unarmed ex-fighters were killed after the surrender, did not play a role. All that the veterans seem to have wanted was an apology for usage of the word "massacre", a word which, it should be repeated, never appeared in Katz's thesis.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The document was signed late at night (around 11:45 PM), at a meeting which involved one of Katz's non-litigating lawyers, Amatzia Atlas, who also happens to be Katz's cousin. Katz's chief attorney, Avigdor Feldman, was not there and was not aware of this development. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]According to Katz, he already had second thoughts about what he had done as he traveled away from the meeting in a taxi. These misgivings were conveyed to Atlas right there and then. Apparently, Atlas convinced Katz to "sleep on it" and see how he felt in the morning. Also, according to Katz, a Haifa University lawyer who was present during the signing of the agreement told Katz's wife (who was also present): "Tell him to sign and just continue his studies for his doctorate".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]It is important to note that, according to Katz, in the period of approximately twelve hours from the signing of the agreement to the resumption of the court session, he spoke to only two other people -- one close personal friend and Adam Keller, the spokesperson of Gush Shalom.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]At the beginning of the court session next morning, the presiding judge, Drora Pilpel, announced that the case was closed, to the stunned silence of many of those present in the courtroom, who were not aware of the happenings of the night before. She explained that an out-of-court settlement had been signed and that it had been examined and approved by the court.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]At that point, attorney Feldman rose and told the judge that Katz would like to make a statement. Permission was given and Katz explained to the court that he had signed the settlement in a moment of weakness which he now deeply regretted. Furthermore, he felt that he wouldn't be able to live with this decision since it did not represent what he really felt about his work. He pleaded with the court to give him permission to retract his "apology" and continue to defend himself against the libel suit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The attorney acting for the Alexandroni veterans asked the court to reject Katz's request and, after several hours of deliberation, Judge Pilpel announced her decision not to allow Katz to back out of the settlement. She made it crystal clear that her decision related only to her conviction that a contract between parties must be respected. She emphasized that her decision did not relate in any way to the content, accuracy or veracity of the libel suit. Katz appealed to the Supreme Court who, in turn, upheld the decision of the judge of the lower court for exactly the same reasons.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]As part of the signed settlement, Katz was obliged to publish an "apology" in the press. Katz now refused to do so, since it would not represent his true feelings about the case. The attorney acting for the veterans then published the "apology" himself and proceeded to seize Katz's car as repayment for the publication cost. To avoid seizure of his car, Katz paid.[/SIZE]
Zalman Amit: The Collapse of Academic Freedom in Israel
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Indeed. Urged on by her "radical professors". I hope they are proud of their influence on Rachel. Instead of sipping latte's while vacationing on Puget Sound she chose to kneel down in front of an Israeli Military Bulldozer. She had no business being there.
I wouldn't go so far as to say she had no business being there.

I support and defend the right to peaceful protest. That includes being a human barricade. What I will not defend, condone or support, is the suport of terrorist organizations by the hapless.

It is sad that she was killed, but to call it murder, or anything of the like, is ridiculous.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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I wouldn't go so far as to say she had no business being there.

I support and defend the right to peaceful protest. That includes being a human barricade. What I will not defend, condone or support, is the suport of terrorist organizations by the hapless.

It is sad that she was killed, but to call it murder, or anything of the like, is ridiculous.

Well let's just say she was in over her head. It's all fine and good pounding the drum outside the White House and shouting on campus between classes but when you go to Israel to take on the IDF and treat it like a protest in downtown Seatlle you're in for a rude awakening.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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She was crushed by a bulldozer in brood daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses, it was murder plain and simple but the kool-aid crew are fanatically incapable of understanding that.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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She was crushed by a bulldozer in brood daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses, it was murder plain and simple but the kool-aid crew are fanatically incapable of understanding that.

I've seen pictures of it and there were not hundreds of witnesses.
 

whispergently

New Member
Aug 9, 2009
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Nety sure loves the fact that 9/11 helped their cause, it brought the full Calvary to help them in the Middle East. Sometimes I wonder which country benefited the most from 9/11. I say this because Nety himself is the one who made this declaration on the news.

I believe that Israel needs some mental therapy to help them, they went through hell and yet we shall deem them clear of any mental issues, FEAR is their greatest enemy from what I see, we are currently seeing the effects of their mental anguish. I'm just a bit tired of hearing their lamenting the fact that Iran has nuclear weapons when they themselves do not adhere to any laws of the land. They took possession of land that was not theirs and either they choose to share or forever be at the mercy of those who were betrayed and had their land stolen from them.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Well let's just say she was in over her head. It's all fine and good pounding the drum outside the White House and shouting on campus between classes but when you go to Israel to take on the IDF and treat it like a protest in downtown Seatlle you're in for a rude awakening.
Agreed.

She was crushed by a bulldozer in brood daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses, it was murder plain and simple but the kool-aid crew are fanatically incapable of understanding that.
Funny, I watched the video and saw nothing around those numbers, even after I read Mhz direction to pay close attention to the two minute mark, still no "hundreds of people".

I've seen pictures of it and there were not hundreds of witnesses.
This is true.

Most of the people can be seen at the 2 min mark of the vid, BTW WTF did Israel do to those buildings.
They blew the tunnel under them and then bulldozed them.

And btw, thanx for pointing out the two minute mark in your video, it clear proves that DB is a bold faced liar.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Funny, I watched the video and saw nothing around those numbers, even after I read Mhz direction to pay close attention to the two minute mark, still no "hundreds of people".

They blew the tunnel under them and then bulldozed them.

And btw, thanx for pointing out the two minute mark in your video, it clear proves that DB is a bold faced liar.
That is only showing Palestinians @ the 2min mark, you are not accounting for any IDF forces in the area. BTW you don't need 100's to prove a case.

Prove they were doing what you claim, it would appear they were just destroying more buildings, like the ones seen at the 1:48 mark.


(in part)
"TOM DALE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT

British Citizen from Lichfield, Birmingham, born 17 August 1984.


Many of you will of heard varying accounts of the death of Rachel Corrie, maybe others will have heard nothing of it. Regardless, I was 10 metres away when it happened 2 days ago, and this is the way it went.

We'd been monitoring and occasionally obstructing the 2 bulldozers for about 2 hours when 1 of them turned toward a house we knew to be threatened with demolition. Rachel knelt down in its way. She was 10-20 metres in front of the bulldozer, clearly visible, the only object for many metres, directly in its view. They were in radio contact with a tank that had a profile view of the situation. There is no way she could not have been seen by them in their elevated cabin. They knew where she was, there is no doubt.

The bulldozer drove toward Rachel slowly, gathering earth in its scoop as it went. She knelt there, she did not move. The bulldozer reached her and she began to stand up, climbing onto the mound of earth. She appeared to be looking into the cockpit. The bulldozer continued to push Rachel, so she slipped down the mound of earth, turning as she went. Her faced showed she was panicking and it was clear she was in danger of being overwhelmed.

All the activists were screaming at the bulldozer to stop and gesturing to the crew about Rachel's presence. We were in clear view as Rachel had been, they continued. They pushed Rachel, first beneath the scoop, then beneath the blade, then continued till her body was beneath the cockpit. They waited over her for a few seconds, before reversing. They reversed with the blade pressed down, so it scraped over her body a second time. Every second I believed they would stop but they never did."
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Not worth bring up another thread for this bit.
The facts became known after the hit. Those same people will never get caught or face trial, a new identity and some minor changes in appearance and they could go anyplace in the world today. They (and their counterparts) have an endless supply of identies because they can be created on a key-board.
The modern tracking devices will help reveal the movements and such, it does nothing to prevent or to capture. Israel will never hand them over, they are rewarding them at the moment.

End of the 'killer spy' 007 era

Dubai fallout 'dooms' secret hits

By MATTI FRIEDMAN
AP
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Amazing what they get away with isn't it.....

Amazing what they get away with isn't it.....

Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections? ?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world?

Yep!
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Amazing what they get away with isn't it.....

Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections? ?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world?

Yep!

You made a lot of claims, can you backup what you wrote with legitimate support, or is this just more leftest ranting.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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You made a lot of claims, can you backup what you wrote with legitimate support, or is this just more leftest ranting.

Every one of those statements are obvious unless you live in a cave somewhere. They are all backed up by world headlines when they happened, or continue to happen.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Every one of those statements are obvious unless you live in a cave somewhere. They are all backed up by world headlines when they happened, or continue to happen.
Then why don't you take the list and post some proof.

When you do, I'll take the facts from my cave and destroy your "headlines". Which of course we all know are so overwhelmingly accurate...:roll:
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Then why don't you take the list and post some proof.

When you do, I'll take the facts from my cave and destroy your "headlines". Which of course we all know are so overwhelmingly accurate...:roll:

You obviously couldn't read it if I did. These are virtually all news items that were reported in the international press and by the intelligence services of every country involved.

Does any other country in the Middle East besides Israel have nuclear weapons?

It was well reported in the world press that Israel refused to sign the Non proliferation treaty.

Did you somehow miss that Israel was and still is occupying parts of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt..etc

I won't go any further. If you can't see it now you never will.