Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

[earth_as_one]

Israeli is a state. One that practices apartheid and commits war crimes and crimes against humanity. They have just as much right to exist as other states which do these things.

I'd just like to see criminals be brought to justice.

 

[ironsides]

Not according to the latest contract they signed UN181.

"Part II of UN181 meticulously determined the precise borders of the Israeli state. "

The Arabs meticulously rejected 181 and tried to cleanse the entire region of Jews. Where Arabs came into power, every single Jew WAS kicked out.

"When Israel occupied the rest of Palestine in1967, and refused to withdraw from the newly occupied territory, it was in violation of UN resolutions 242,452 and 465."

Bull, bull, and bull. Israel is entitled to occupy territory. It`s simply not allowed to annex the territory without recognition from its neighbors. And given the fact that Jews moved back onto properties they were only cleansed from for 19 years is evidence that they have every right to reclaim their properties and develop them.

"When it built in the West Bank and annexed Jerusalem it was in violation of articles 49, 53, and 147 of 4th Geneva Convention."

Bull again. Nothing in the Geneva Conventions states that Jews are not allowed to reclaim their own properties and develop them.

 

[Colpy]

Israeli is a state. One that practices apartheid and commits war crimes and crimes against humanity. They have just as much right to exist as other states which do these things.

I'd just like to see criminals be brought to justice.

Okay, how about you turn your attention to the worst human rights abusers on earth??

Spend 1 tenth as much time moaning on and on and on and on about the biggest human rights abuser on earth North Korea, followed by the Sudan, Burma and China....the top four in the world, then maybe I can take your yowling about Israel seriously. Oh yeah....number 5 on the list of infamy is Syria.......Israel's neighbour and primary enemy.....

Israel, BTW falls middle of the pack......

 

[Goober]

WOW, pretty detailed, how many more posts before you get your Rabbi status?

Prior to the OT was ...... before there was an earth.

Tad grumpy today - Posters on various thread have asserted quite strongly that Israel never existed - The proof was in the ground -

As to those that did not believe Israel existed I say that the Good Lord has a special place in his heart because he made so many of them. Would you agree to that last statement???

 

[MHz]

Tad grumpy today - Posters on various thread have asserted quite strongly that Israel never existed - The proof was in the ground -

As to those that did not believe Israel existed I say that the Good Lord has a special place in his heart because he made so many of them. Would you agree to that last statement???

I support the OT as being quite correct, God won all their battles as far as controlling the land called Israel. As soon as He stopped doing that, exile into Babylon.
Your statement is quite correct, unfortunately they have arrived a tad early. The plans Christ has for the 'remodeling' doesn't include the survival of any people in the immediate area when He returns. It isn't Christ who will be messed up when some of the 12 tribes are being sent to hell instead of being brought home alive (or resurrected) , they should have been safely scattered in the Nations (the last place He left them).
He has a special place in His heart for mankind. If your statement was true there would be no Christians. What He has is a special place in His heart for what He calls 'His people', in spite of their lacking obedience to what He asks of them. Us Christians aren't any better at following directions from Heaven BTW.

Eze:36:19:
And I scattered them among the heathen,
and they were dispersed through the countries:
according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
Eze:36:20:
And when they entered unto the heathen,
whither they went,
they profaned my holy name,
when they said to them,
These are the people of the LORD,
and are gone forth out of his land.
Eze:36:21:
But I had pity for mine holy name,
which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen,
whither they went.
Eze:36:22:
Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes,
O house of Israel,
but for mine holy name's sake,
which ye have profaned among the heathen,
whither ye went.
Eze:36:23:
And I will sanctify my great name,
which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
saith the Lord GOD,
when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Eze:36:24:
For I will take you from among the heathen,
and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.
Eze:36:25:
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness,
and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze:36:26:
A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[ironsides]

Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens. It is pointed out that "full social and political equality of all [Israel's] citizens, without distinction of race, creed or sex" is specifically guaranteed by Israeli law.[10][11] The State of Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories is driven by security considerations, not anti-Arab racism and the fact that Palestinians have never been Israeli citizens and thus would not have Israeli rights.
Palestinians are by their own admission the sworn enemies of Jews and Israel.

 

[MHz]

Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens. It is pointed out that "full social and political equality of all [Israel's] citizens, without distinction of race, creed or sex" is specifically guaranteed by Israeli law.[10][11] The State of Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories is driven by security considerations, not anti-Arab racism and the fact that Palestinians have never been Israeli citizens and thus would not have Israeli rights.
Palestinians are by their own admission the sworn enemies of Jews and Israel.

Their own court system said part of the wall in the West Bank was illegal, several years down the road it is still there. The Gov won't even listen to the courts. lol
I hope they don't call them Citizen Cards or whatever the ones from the movie "1984"

 

[earth_as_one]

Okay, how about you turn your attention to the worst human rights abusers on earth??

Spend 1 tenth as much time moaning on and on and on and on about the biggest human rights abuser on earth North Korea, followed by the Sudan, Burma and China....the top four in the world, then maybe I can take your yowling about Israel seriously. Oh yeah....number 5 on the list of infamy is Syria.......Israel's neighbour and primary enemy.....

Israel, BTW falls middle of the pack......

I realize you see Israel as an innocent victim and completely justified commiting war crimes and crimes against humanity. But I don't share your viewpoint. I'm revolted by Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity. Let me try to explain it in a way that might help you understand my viewpoint.

How would you feel if the Canadian government expressed unshakably support for Clifford Olson? That's how I feel regarding Canada's unshakable support for Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I see your post as the moral equivalent of defending Clifford Olson because he didn't murder as many people as Ted Bundy.

If Clifford Olson had as much media and political support as Israel, he may never have seen the inside of a prison.

If all Canadians knew about Clifford Olson was as distorted and manipulated as what they know about Israel, then its possible a majority of people could be convinced Olson was an innocent victim just like Israel.

BTW, I have nothing against Canadians with Swedish ancestry. I'm just against mass muderers who torture their victims, regardless of their race, religion or nationality.

If you and I both agree that Ted Bundy was evil, then why would I start a start a string on that subject?

I know you don't see your defense of Israel that way, but that's the way I see it. No I'm not accusing you of supporting Clifford Olson. But you do support Israel, despite their war crimes and crimes against humanity and IMO, that's about the same thing.

Now do you understand why I am passionate regarding this subject?

>>>

If you start a string in defense of the human rights record of the countries you just listed, I'll post responses which condemn their human rights record.

If you can give me another example where the Canadian government has expressed unshakable support for war criminals despite their crimes against humanity, then I'll start a string on that country critical of Canada's support.

How about giving me an example where the Canadian government remained silent while soldiers forced children in trenches surrounded by razor wire next to tanks and artillery during a battle with the children's relatives?

If you can give me an example where Canada refused to condemn a country's use of chemical weapons against civilians, then I'd take up that cause too.

Since we all agree that these nations you listed have poor human rights records, and they have already been condemned by the Canadian government, I don't see the point in starting a string.

As far as I know, Israel is the only country which commits war crimes and crimes against humanity and remains unshakably supported by the Canadian government and defended by people in this forum.

 

[ironsides]

Their own court system said part of the wall in the West Bank was illegal, several years down the road it is still there. The Gov won't even listen to the courts. lol
I hope they don't call them Citizen Cards or whatever the ones from the movie "1984"

Israel conquered the West Bank, and the Palestinians never have given them a reason to return anything, since they start all over again attacking Israel whenever Israel gave back anything to them, thus causing Israel to retake it. West Bank is now a part of Israel.

 

[earth_as_one]

Israel conquered the West Bank, and the Palestinians never have given them a reason to return anything, since they start all over again attacking Israel whenever Israel gave back anything to them, thus causing Israel to retake it. West Bank is now a part of Israel.

Its against international law to deny people their fundamental human rights. Denying food and medicine from reaching hungry and sick people is a crime against humanity. Israel's settlements on conquered land is a war crime. Using chemical weapons against civilians is a war crime. Using civilians as human shields is a war crime. The list of Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity is long and detailed here:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

I'll stop criticizing Israel's treatment of Palestinians when these people have freedom and justice.

 

[MHz]

Israel conquered the West Bank, and the Palestinians never have given them a reason to return anything, since they start all over again attacking Israel whenever Israel gave back anything to them, thus causing Israel to retake it. West Bank is now a part of Israel.

It is called occupied territory. Tainted fruit a Jew would say. Wonder how hard God is going to smack-em for this little misadventure of theirs?

 

[Goober]

Israeli is a state. One that practices apartheid and commits war crimes and crimes against humanity. They have just as much right to exist as other states which do these things.

I'd just like to see criminals be brought to justice.

EAO

You have demonstrated clearly that you are Anti Semitic - Anti - Jew and Anti Israel - Basically you are a one trick pony - One opinion - One sided and usually wrong -

Must get tiresome stating over and over again that Big Lie of yours that you want all war criminals and perpetrators f crimes against humanity brought to justice - Phony as a 3 dollar bill.

Have you researched how minority regions in Arab States are treated - Start with Iran - Then Saudi - Yes Egypt has had many Coptic Christian murdered - Why do so many Christian leave Arab States -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

Baha'i Topics - The Situation of the Bahá'ís in Iran

Throughout the past century, the Bahá'ís of Iran have been persecuted. With the triumph of the Islamic revolution in 1979, this persecution has been systematized. More than 200 Bahá'ís have been executed or killed, hundreds more have been imprisoned, and tens of thousands have been deprived of jobs, pensions, businesses, and educational opportunities. All national and local Bahá'í administrative institutions have been banned by the Government, and Bahá'í holy places, cemeteries and community properties have been confiscated, vandalized, or destroyed.The 300,000-member Bahá'í community is the largest religious minority in that country, and Bahá'ís have been oppressed solely because of religious intolerance. Islamic leaders in Iran and elsewhere have long viewed the Bahá'í Faith as a threat to Islam and have branded the Bahá'ís as heretics. The progressive stands of the Faith on women's rights, independent investigation of truth, and education have particularly rankled Muslim clerics.In June 1983, for example, the Iranian authorities arrested ten Bahá'í women and girls. The charge against them: teaching children's classes on the Bahá'í Faith -- the equivalent of Sunday school in the West.The women were subjected to intense physical and mental abuse in an effort to coerce them to recant their Faith -- an option that is always pressed on Bahá'í prisoners. Yet, like most Bahá'ís who have been arrested in Iran, they refused to deny their beliefs. As a result, they were executed.

Persecution of Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 20th century, Christians have been persecuted by radical Muslim and Hindu groups inter alia, and by (officially) atheistic states such as the USSR and North Korea. Currently (as of 2010), an estimated 100 million Christians face persecution, particularly in the Muslim world and at the hands of Hindu extremism in India, with a rising tendencyAnd I did not even have to mention Sudan - Why - Every Arab country denies basis human rights - A link on what you deliberately overlook as you stick to your Goebbels Line of a lie told often enough becomes the truth -

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

The Universal Declaration was adopted by the General Assembly on 10 December 1948 by a vote of 48 in favor, 0 against, with 8 abstentions (all the Soviet Bloc states, Byelorussia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Ukraine, USSR, as well as Yugoslavia, South Africa and Saudi Arabia).[8]

 

[Goober]

It is called occupied territory. Tainted fruit a Jew would say. Wonder how hard God is going to smack-em for this little misadventure of theirs?

Is not God forgiving?

 

[MHz]

- Why do so many Christian leave Arab States

Because being associated with "Christian countries" is somewhat like being a Muslim in America, starting on 9/12/01.

 

[MHz]

Is not God forgiving?

Right after He takes all that you/they owe Him.

 

[Goober]

Right after He takes all that you/they owe Him.

So I am a sinner in Gods eyes - is that what you are saying?

 

[Goober]

Because being associated with "Christian countries" is somewhat like being a Muslim in America, starting on 9/12/01.

I posted a tread on that topic - perhaps you should look it up

 

[MHz]

So I am a sinner in Gods eyes - is that what you are saying?

We all are, some more than others. Hint, try for a short list.

I posted a tread on that topic - perhaps you should look it up

Thanks but no thanks.

 

[earth_as_one]

Goober,

I'm just as against the atrocities and injustices you listed as I am against the artociticies and injustices committed against Palestinians.

Perhaps you should my post above. #308. It seems you understand me about as well as Colpy and maybe that post might help you understand me better.

 

[earth_as_one]

Here I'll quote it for you:

I realize you see Israel as an innocent victim and completely justified commiting war crimes and crimes against humanity. But I don't share your viewpoint. I'm revolted by Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity. Let me try to explain it in a way that might help you understand my viewpoint.

How would you feel if the Canadian government expressed unshakably support for Clifford Olson? That's how I feel regarding Canada's unshakable support for Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I see your post as the moral equivalent of defending Clifford Olson because he didn't murder as many people as Ted Bundy.

If Clifford Olson had as much media and political support as Israel, he may never have seen the inside of a prison.

If all Canadians knew about Clifford Olson was as distorted and manipulated as what they know about Israel, then its possible a majority of people could be convinced Olson was an innocent victim just like Israel.

BTW, I have nothing against Canadians with Swedish ancestry. I'm just against mass muderers who torture their victims, regardless of their race, religion or nationality.

If you and I both agree that Ted Bundy was evil, then why would I start a start a string on that subject?

I know you don't see your defense of Israel that way, but that's the way I see it. No I'm not accusing you of supporting Clifford Olson. But you do support Israel, despite their war crimes and crimes against humanity and IMO, that's about the same thing.

Now do you understand why I am passionate regarding this subject?

>>>

If you start a string in defense of the human rights record of the countries you just listed, I'll post responses which condemn their human rights record.

If you can give me another example where the Canadian government has expressed unshakable support for war criminals despite their crimes against humanity, then I'll start a string on that country critical of Canada's support.

How about giving me an example where the Canadian government remained silent while soldiers forced children in trenches surrounded by razor wire next to tanks and artillery during a battle with the children's relatives?

If you can give me an example where Canada refused to condemn a country's use of chemical weapons against civilians, then I'd take up that cause too.

Since we all agree that these nations you listed have poor human rights records, and they have already been condemned by the Canadian government, I don't see the point in starting a string.

As far as I know, Israel is the only country which commits war crimes and crimes against humanity and remains unshakably supported by the Canadian government and defended by people in this forum.