Soul isn’t real; at least there is no scientific evidence for it. To me, that is as good as saying that it doesn’t’ exist.
Is reincarnation real?
- Thread starter Cliffy
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Soul isn’t real; at least there is no scientific evidence for it. To me, that is as good as saying that it doesn’t’ exist.
Science can only prove stuff in the third dimensional reality. In a multidimensional multiverse, that is pretty limited ability. Besides, I believe souls have people, not the other way around. Belief cannot be proven or disproven, so where does that leave us?
Taxslave some of these hoaxes are very elaborately, very cleverly constructed, it needs an expert to take them apart.
Reminds me of an episode of Columbo. He was investigating murder of a psychic. He was a well known, highly respected psychic, and just he week before he had won an encounter with a confirmed, well known skeptic.
The skeptic challenged the psychic, claimed he was a phony and offered to expose him. Psychic took up the challenge and the two of them worked out how the psychic would demonstrate his telepathic ability.
The skeptic took an impartial, disinterested reporter with him and drove to a random place in Los Angeles. Skeptic had a map of Los Angeles with him, he asked the reporter to open the map at random to a page.
When the reporter had done so, the psychic (he was in contact with them by phone) asked the skeptic to mark a spot at random on the page. Then the skeptic drove to that spot and psychic asked him to form a mental picture of what he saw around him.
As the skeptic pictured the structures around him mentally, the psychic drew the picture of what the skeptic was seeing. He drew the pictures of a bridge, a skyscraper, a junk yard and railway track. At the same time, the skeptic took photographs of his surrounding and faxed them (he has a FAX machine in the car) to the place where psychic was located, so that people could compare the two on the spot. The psychic was accurate every time, without fail. The skeptic admitted that psychic was genuine.
The reporter who accompanied the skeptic was astonished, stunned. She had participated in it, to the extent of opening the map at random. She also became convinced that the psychic had telepathic abilities.
Columbo however, was not convinced. He was sure the psychic was phony. So he went to another skeptic and asked him to explain how the psychic did it. The skeptic said, ‘Well, lieutenant, the first thing to do is to assume that it is a fraud. Then it is easy enough to prove the fraud.’
Can anybody think of how the psychic perpetrated the fraud? I will post the answer tomorrow.
But the point is, some of these frauds are very cleverly, elaborately designed, and sometimes it takes an expert to take them apart.
It is easy to prove anything when you start out with a preconceived conclusion. That is like proving anything you want to using the bible. To be truly conclusive the mind has to have no preconceived ideas about the conclusion. The process is fraudulent and besides, it was just a movie.
Cliffy, there is no scientific basis for telepathy, teleportation, reincarnation etc. So if anybody demonstrates any instances of any of these, the starting assumption has to be that it is a hoax, a fraud. And then one can try to explain how it was carried out.
As I said before, if any of these concepts are to be taken seriously somebody has to develop a scientific hypotheses, which can be tested by experimental evidence. Unless and until that happens, it will invariably be regarded as superstition, trickery and fraud by scientists.
Am I to deduce from what you are saying that there is absolutely no form of free will within you, as you believe your actions to be entirely dictated by the chemical reactions going on in your brain?
It seems clear to me that a human being with no soul is no more free than a rock.
I'd say the first sceptic was a phony (the one that hopped into the car with the map.
That hoax would be easy to pull off these days with one of those sneaky, little, itty bitty cams.
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The Russians have been studying the paranormal for over 50 years. The Yanks have done extensive studies. Both have been trying to tap that phenomenon to use against the other. They may have found ways to create certain paranormal abilities as weapons but if they did they certainly aren't going to tell you and me about it. We might try to use it against them. The most probable use would be in mind control and judging by the number of people willing to swallow their propaganda, I would say they are quite successful.
Sure there is free will, it is caused precisely by the reactions in the brain (I think that is ultimately what the thinking process is, chemical reactions in the brain). As to their being random, sometimes they are, sometimes they are directed by the brain.
But that is all free will is, biochemical reactions in the brain.
Cliffy, if they have found some empirical ways of mind control (and there is nothing paranormal about mind control, brainwashing techniques are very old), you are right; we have no way of knowing it.
On the other hand, there is no way they can develop a full science about paranormal and keep it secret, invariably it is going to leak out. So it is quite possible that they may have studied it at an empirical level (and perhaps even got something usable out of it), but that still does not make it a science. As far as science is concerned, it is still unproven.
Then by your own definition, free will can at best be a subjective illusion... if not a total delusion. There can't be any form of free will if you reduce consciousness to biochemistry. Biochemistry follows strict rules and it doesn't allow any form of free will... (If you are truly interested in elaborating on this subject I invite you to comment in the thread I just started called ''Science, soul and free will'')
Thanks, I will look at that thread (but not now, I am signing off shortly). Sure biochemistry follows strict rules, it is a science. However, there is plenty of randomness. We are influenced by random external forces, by what happens to us in life. That dictates our course of action, which triggers the appropriate biochemical reactions.
For instance, my son decided to go to medical school (he just completed the third year), why? Because in the society we live in, medicine has plenty of scope; it is a respected profession, with promise of significant financial reward. So he studied hard and got into medical school. His action was based upon external forces. But in the end, it triggered certain biochemical reactions in his brain, which caused him to study hard, take appropriate subjects at university level, appear for MCAT, apply to medical schools etc.
This is an example of free will as well as biochemical reactions. There was plenty of randomness as to which factors influenced his choice. And that randomness could be considered free will. If those random factors had been otherwise, he would have acted otherwise (e.g. if in our society janitors were respected, made a lot of money, he may have decided to become a janitor).
So what you are saying is that your son isn't free at all. The path of his life was either dictated by biochemistry or pure randomness...
Might as well say there is no such thing as free will.
SJP: It is quite possibly a fraud. Wife said that the only way she could tell for sure would be to interview the kid herself. If it is a fraud whoever set it up knows what is supposed to happen. I'm not convinced about all of it yet partly because it requires believing in souls which is something that is hard to prove and has something to do with Karma too. The fact that it was on Fox makes me suspicious.
This is somewhat of an explanation of why some people are so fixated in the past and want to protect anything old. It quite possibly is the period of one of their last lives and they need to finnish something from that era. Again like religion it requires a certain leap of faith.
This is somewhat of an explanation of why some people are so fixated in the past and want to protect anything old. It quite possibly is the period of one of their last lives and they need to finnish something from that era. Again like religion it requires a certain leap of faith.
Everything is fraudulent to a non believer. There are many things that happen to people that cannot be explained by science. It doesn't make them any less real to the person experiencing them. Just because it doesn't fit within one's personal realm of possibility doesn't mean it isn't possible.
It is not so much a leap of faith as it is about having an open mind. No amount of proof will convince a mind that is a steel trap or hermetically sealed box. Even scientists have t have an open mind to some degree, otherwise they couldn't make new discoveries.
It is not so much a leap of faith as it is about having an open mind. No amount of proof will convince a mind that is a steel trap or hermetically sealed box. Even scientists have t have an open mind to some degree, otherwise they couldn't make new discoveries.