Is Quebec sovereignty on the rise?

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Actually, Parizeau said that the constitution did not allow the federal government to alter Quebec's boundaries without its consent, so it can secede intact.

But, by the same token, the constitution also doesn't say Quebec can secede, so it cannot secede to begin with - or rather, its right to do so is not guaranteed.

And what about Indigenous Quebecers, especially in Northern Quebec, The Innu, the Cree, etc.? If Quebec can separate, why can't they? Seems to be a double standard there.
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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What I am saying is the media is not looking or showing at the whole picture...

What is the media not showing? Did they not talk enough about Jean Charest's Plan Nord? Did they omit to show the ridiculous internal conflicts of the PQ? Did they omit to show Pauline Marois's failed attempt to gain politically from the Quebec city arena fiasco? Did they omit talking about the CAQ?


As for tuition fees, let me be clearer with the rice and potatoes example.

A common argument heard for raising tuition fees is that the rich are profiting from cheap fees in the same way that they are profiting from 7$ day care. The logic of the argument goes that by raising tuition fees, rich people at least pay their full share. Then all you need to do is give out more loans and bursaries to those who can't afford the higher fees and everybody is supposedly happy because it is fair to everybody.

Yet the rich get out of school with not a single penny to pay and the others end up needing to payback their loans over many years. Can't afford your education? Get in debt!
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Honestly though, whether a nation is sovereign or part of another is not that important in itself: that's just an administrative issue. What's more concerning is the impact it has on people's everyday lives.

While I'm not proposing we bribe Quebec into staying in Canada, I also oppose kicking it out too. I'd say leave the political side alone and focus instead on ensuring friendly relations either way between Canadians on the ground, since that's what really matters.

That said, if Quebec can separate from Canada, so can the First Nations, right?
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Honestly though, whether a nation is sovereign or part of another is not that important in itself: that's just an administrative issue. What's more concerning is the impact it has on people's everyday lives.

While I'm not proposing we bribe Quebec into staying in Canada, I also oppose kicking it out too. I'd say leave the political side alone and focus instead on ensuring friendly relations either way between Canadians on the ground, since that's what really matters.

That said, if Quebec can separate from Canada, so can the First Nations, right?

I personally say yes. That is my biggest issue against the idea of separation. It's a pandora's box and I don't see how we can avoid the double standard.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Like seeing people die, DORK?

Are you in the right thread?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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They are not a people.
That's quite the ignorant statement. It also highlights a bias, that obviously jades any chance of objectivity.
They were a handful of peasants who were settled here and abandoned by the elites as Britain won on the Plains of Abraham.
According to historical records estimate there were approximately 50,000+ French in New France. Considering the estimated European population north of the great lakes was approximately 70,000 to 90,000, depending on who you read.

There was a little more than a handful of peasants.

Read what I wrote. It is fact.
No it isn't. What facts you think you have on demographics are meaningless in the context of separatism. Your reliance on what you think the Helsinki Accords proves, is also in correct. Your claim of a handful of peasants, is also incorrect.

If you read what I have been saying, you would understand that I have much more than a clue. I co-founded the most significant anti separatist and anti language laws movement in the 1970s and lived it night and day for five years. I wrote many articles and chaired the policy and communication committee of the movement.

Members of the movement included scores of academics and, as I wrote elsewhere, some who know more of this than you would if you devoted your life to improving on the superficial grounding of your High School Social Studies courses.
Your claims mean absolutely less than nothing.

Evidence matters.

I have supplied evidence, you have supplied the name Helsinki Agreement, final Act, insults, insinuations, empty claims of superiority, and nothing more.

I don't know what you think a discussion is. But claiming superiority, insulting or attacking anyone that dare challenges your empty claims, while you fail to supply even a smidgen of evidence, does not a discussion make.

Either back up your claims with some evidence, other than your silly claims of superiority, or your posts will be reported for trolling.

I personally say yes. That is my biggest issue against the idea of separation. It's a pandora's box and I don't see how we can avoid the double standard.
I do, don't do it. Avoid it. Let the Cree take Rupert's Land, let the Mohawk have the shores of the St. Lawrence.

Without that, a separate Quebec, is bound for a protracted war with us. And I guarantee, I will be there, this time.

He is intelligently challenged, be patient with the idiot ...eh !!
Your trolling and insulting has been reported. A negative rep applied, for your actions contrary to the sites rules.
 
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Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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That's quite the ignorant statement. It also highlights a bias, that obviously jades any chance of objectivity.
According to historical records estimate there were approximately 50,000+ French in New France. Considering the estimated European population north of the great lakes was approximately 70,000 to 90,000, depending on who you read.

There was a little more than a handful of peasants.

No it isn't. What facts you think you have on demographics are meaningless in the context of separatism. Your reliance on what you think the Helsinki Accords proves, is also in correct. Your claim of a handful of peasants, is also incorrect.

Your claims mean absolutely less than nothing.

Evidence matters.

I have supplied evidence, you have supplied the name Helsinki Agreement, final Act, insults, insinuations, empty claims of superiority, and nothing more.

I don't know what you think a discussion is. But claiming superiority, insulting or attacking anyone that dare challenges your empty claims, while you fail to supply even a smidgen of evidence, does not a discussion make.

Either back up your claims with some evidence, other than your silly claims of superiority, or your posts will be reported for trolling.

I do, don't do it. Avoid it. Let the Cree take Rupert's Land, let the Mohawk have the shores of the St. Lawrence.

Without that, a separate Quebec, is bound for a protracted war with us. And I guarantee, I will be there, this time.

Your trolling and insulting has been reported. A negative rep applied, for your actions contrary to the sites rules.

You are an ignorant jerk and you should not try to threaten me. You have done nothing but troll with respect to my participation since the first post I made. You do this and add nothing but playground insults because you have neither the intelligence or information to dispute with me.

I posted all the reasons for my statements and they are completely factual. You respond with nothing. You have given no evidence at all for your foolish claims. Ypu prattle about the Helsinki Accords while saying nothing about what they are or what they do.

I gave you the principles of Self determination and of what constitutes a "people." The Accords confirm that. You don't even know about relative populations.

What I posted was factual and unless you can come up with something, I have nothing more to say on this topic. I lived it for years and sacrificed my career to the fight. I hav nothing to learn from you.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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You are an ignorant jerk and you should not try to threaten me. You have done nothing but troll with respect to my participation since the first post I made. You do this and add nothing but playground insults because you have neither the intelligence or information to dispute with me.

I posted all the reasons for my statements and they are completely factual. You respond with nothing. You have given no evidence at all for your foolish claims. Ypu prattle about the Helsinki Accords while saying nothing about what they are or what they do.

I gave you the principles of Self determination and of what constitutes a "people." The Accords confirm that. You don't even know about relative populations.

What I posted was factual and unless you can come up with something, I have nothing more to say on this topic. I lived it for years and sacrificed my career to the fight. I hav nothing to learn from you.



Blah blah blah blah blah.... more BS from the BS king. What you posted was the prattling of an ignorant twit trying to make himself sound intelligent. Guess what, it didn't work and we don't buy it.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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You are an ignorant jerk and you should not try to threaten me. You have done nothing but troll with respect to my participation since the first post I made. You do this and add nothing but playground insults because you have neither the intelligence or information to dispute with me.

I posted all the reasons for my statements and they are completely factual. You respond with nothing. You have given no evidence at all for your foolish claims. Ypu prattle about the Helsinki Accords while saying nothing about what they are or what they do.

I gave you the principles of Self determination and of what constitutes a "people." The Accords confirm that. You don't even know about relative populations.

What I posted was factual and unless you can come up with something, I have nothing more to say on this topic. I lived it for years and sacrificed my career to the fight. I hav nothing to learn from you.
You have received a negative rep, for lying, trolling and insults.

Furthermore, your post was reported for trolling and insults.

Please familiarize yourself with the sites rules... Canadian Content Forums -

Once you've done that, please feel free to familiarize yourself with what a discussion is... discussion - definition of discussion by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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You have received a negative rep, for lying, trolling and insults.

Furthermore, your post was reported for trolling and insults.

Please familiarize yourself with the sites rules... Canadian Content Forums -

Once you've done that, please feel free to familiarize yourself with what a discussion is... discussion - definition of discussion by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Should I now report you, you childish, petty mined and conceited oaf.

You have done nothing but insult and troll and parade ignorance in doing so.

The difference between you and I in that respect is that I do not run crying to teacher and I post information.not pejorative comments.

Pitiful
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Should I now report you, you childish, petty mined and conceited oaf.
Ummm...

The difference between you and I in that respect is that I do not run crying to teacher and I post information.not pejorative comments.

I agree.

Your post was given a negative rep for lying, trolling, and personal attacks.

It was also reported for trolling and personal attacks.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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Ummm...



I agree.

Your post was given a negative rep for lying, trolling, and personal attacks.

It was also reported for trolling and personal attacks.
As I said, you are pitiful and now showing to be a crybaby. It amazes me that others here have put up with your overbearing condescension for so long.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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As I said, you are pitiful and now showing to be a crybaby.

It has nothing to do with being a crybaby. It has been made clear by the majority of the membership, and staff that the rules should be adhered to.

Since I believe in democracy, I'm trying to follow their wishes.

Your trolling and personal attacks, are against the forums rules.

If you can not participate within those rules. Your posts can and will be reported.

It amazes me that others here have put up with your overbearing condescension for so long.
The irony of the crying in your post, aside. It doesn't amaze me, that yours wasn't put up with at all.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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It has nothing to do with being a crybaby. It has been made clear by the majority of the membership, and staff that the rules should be adhered to.

Since I believe in democracy, I'm trying to follow their wishes.

Your trolling and personal attacks, are against the forums rules.

If you can not participate within those rules. Your posts can and will be reported.

The irony of the crying in your post, aside. It doesn't amaze me, that yours wasn't put up with at all.
It is you that is breaking rules. As I have said, you have done nothing but troll and insult and deliberately try to sidetrack every discussion I participate in.

You truly pathetic.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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It is you that is breaking rules.
Have, past tense. You really should look up what it means.

As I have said, you have done nothing but troll and insult and deliberately try to sidetrack every discussion I participate in.
Not that I feel that I need to justify myself to you, but what is obvious to anyone else, seems to be lost on you. So...

You aren't here for discussion. You have made that perfectly clear. Once that became obvious, there really is nothing left to do with you but troll and mock.

It was made clear by the membership, that that is not appreciated. Therefore, because of my belief in democracy, I changed.

You truly pathetic.
Your post has been given a negative rep, and been reported for trolling and personal attacks.