Is Jesus A Prophet According To The Old Testament?

[eanassir]

The parable of those responded to Jesus and believed, and those denied him and disbelieved​

Jesus was a true prophet of God Almighty, like the prophets before him; then some of his people refused him, while others believed him.

This is in the Quran 61: 14​

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا كُونوا أَنصَارَ اللَّهِ كَمَا قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ لِلْحَوَارِيِّينَ مَنْ أَنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنصَارُ اللَّهِ فَآَمَنَت طَّائِفَةٌ مِّن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَكَفَرَت طَّائِفَةٌ فَأَيَّدْنَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا عَلَى عَدُوِّهِمْ فَأَصْبَحُوا ظَاهِرِينَ​

The explanation:
(O you who believe, be the helpers of God [helping your prophet as did the Disciples help Jesus], ​

as did Jesus, Mary's son, say to the Disciples [: the Apostles]: "Who will be my helpers for [the religion of] God?"
Said the Disciples: "We will be the helpers [of the religion] of God." ​

And a party of the Children of Israel believed [in Jesus: becoming the Christians], and a party unbelieved [: remaining as Jews.] ​

So We aided those who believed [: the Christians] against their enemies [: the Jews], and they [the Christians] prevailed [over Jews; and likewise you, Muslims, will prevail over all religions.])​

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

 

[Spade]

Every "people" were "chosen" by their gods. Were not the Norse chosen by their gods, the First Nations by theirs, and so on and so boring forth?!

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Ask any Freudian.

I don't know any, so I asked Google, and this is what I found. You're quite wrong, faith, at least in the religious sense, doesn't enter into it all.

 

[JLM]

Every "people" were "chosen" by their gods. Were not the Norse chosen by their gods, the First Nations by theirs, and so on and so boring forth?!

I would never propose "deep sixing" any thread, but if this particular one just happened to get deep sixed I wouldn't lose more than two or three nights sleep over it. :lol::lol:

 

[Cliffy]

[FONT=&quot] “Among all my patients ... over thirty five ... there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he lost (it)...and none of them has really been healed who did not regain his religious outlook. This of course has nothing whatever to do with a particular creed or membership of a church. “ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Carl Jung[/FONT]


Exchange spiritual outlook for religious outlook and Carl was onto something.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Spade]

[FONT=&quot] “Among all my patients ... over thirty five ... there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he lost (it)...and none of them has really been healed who did not regain his religious outlook. This of course has nothing whatever to do with a particular creed or membership of a church. “ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Carl Jung[/FONT]


Exchange spiritual outlook for religious outlook and Carl was onto something.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Ah, you twigged a search for the collective unconscious. And, I found this, Cliff. I agree with the writer that there is nothing cuter than a baby hedgehog!

 

[Cliffy]

Do you remember when pot bellied pigs were everywhere? When meditation was in, when everyone was going to self help groups and looking for their purpose? For our generation the zeitgeist has been a kaleidoscope of ever changing colours.

 

[eanassir]

Every "people" were "chosen" by their gods. Were not the Norse chosen by their gods, the First Nations by theirs, and so on and so boring forth?!

To every "people" God sent His apostles, and then if they follow their apostle, they are the "chosen".
Later on the messages and religion of God will be distorted, into some kind of idolatry and associating – with God - their apostle himself and his family members, because of the enthusiasm.​

 

[Cliffy]

To every "people" God sent His apostles, and then if they follow their apostle, they are the "chosen".
Later on the messages and religion of God will be distorted, into some kind of idolatry and associating – with God - their apostle himself and his family members, because of the enthusiasm.​

The message was given to all people, in every geographical location, in all historical time frames in ways they could understand. The message is dynamic, ever changing and flowing with the changes in culture, language and times. The message may have been given to Mohamed, I don't know, I wasn't there. But he was not the only one and in this day and age message of the Koran has no more relevance. Neither does the Bible or the Torah or the Vedas.

Those people that wrote those books had no idea what was going to happen in the future, at this time. They lived in a place lost in the mists of time - a fantasy today because none of us was there so we have no way of knowing what it was like. We only have their word for it and we know that the word of man are transitory - many words today mean something completely different than they did then.

The only time and place to find the truth is right here, right now. Everything else is fiction. Jesus, Mohamed, Moses, Abraham are all fictitious characters from ancient books. There is no way to prove they existed or if what they said or did was truthfully recorded. It is, for all intents and purposes, a myth. Humans have got to stop living in the past because it blinds us to what is happening today.

 

[eanassir]

I don't know any, so I asked Google, and this is what I found. You're quite wrong, faith, at least in the religious sense, doesn't enter into it all.

Religion and mental illness


​

Mental illness has nothing to do with religion or non-religion. It may happen to anyone with any doctrine: atheism, idolatry and any of various religions.

But we sometimes say words like parables about some bad behaviours of some people, and we say: that person is really mad or lunatic or crazy ...etc.

>> There is a prophetic tradition: "The mad or the mentally-ill in fact is the disbeliever."

People said: "How is that?"

The prophet said: "That is because the "mentally-ill" man is only a diseased or ill person; while the disbeliever sees the truth of God and the afterlife Paradise and Hell, and yet he chooses Hell rather than Paradise."

>> The other point is that Satan has control over the associater and the idolater and the atheist, and will control his behavior and thinking almost completely: therefore most of "the possessed" you find them of those associating others (like idols, Jesus and imams) with God.

Example: Once, I saw an old woman taking her son to the hospital for the mentally ill patients;

I asked her: "What's the matter with your son? [I saw him a young man: with a large rosary in his hand, and some large green piece of cloth around his neck]"

She said: "He is with the darawish: who do their ceremonies of the zikr"

I said: "Your son is only possessed by Satan and the genies: they had control over the enthusiastic and the associater."

Then I said to the young man: "What's this green band around your neck?"

His mother said: "It is from the shrine of imam Kazim at Baghdad."

I said to him: "Throw away this band: which is some sort of associating Kazim with God; and know as it is in the Quran that God is the Patron who protects people, not Kazim and other righteous people."

The young man threw that band away, and took his rosary to throw it also.

I said to him: "The one to whom you should resort for protection is God alone: not Kazim, Jesus or Moses; because these are only some righteous servants of God: the best one among them is the one showing much servitude and obedience to God, and God is the True Patron."

And I advised him to read daily the soora of protection from Satan (soora #114)and from the evil of other creatures: (soora #113)

Then I told him to leave his friends because they may return him to their confusion.

The man responded and his mother was very glad.


>> Therefore, we have to differentiate between the false religions of polytheism and enthusiasm and association with God on one hand; and on the other hand the religion of God: which is the pure monotheism and devotion to God alone.

>> Another point is that the easiest way of Satan and disbelievers to oppose the apostle is to accuse him with the mental illness; this is in the Quran 51: 52-53​

كَذَلِكَ مَا أَتَى الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا قَالُوا سَاحِرٌ أَوْ مَجْنُونٌ

​

The explanation:
(Even so: not a messenger came to those [peoples] before [your people, O Mohammed], but they said: "A sorcerer, or mad.')

It means: Every nation of the ancient said about their apostle: he is a magician or mad and possessed; so that others might not accept his teachings; because people do not trust and do not follow the words of the mentally ill.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

 

[Cliffy]

This looks like you are saying that Mohammed was a magician or sorcerer or mad. I can buy that.

 

[eanassir]

This looks like you are saying that Mohammed was a magician or sorcerer or mad. I can buy that.

I did never say that.
I said every nation claimed that their apostle was mad, in order to impede his teachings.

And I know you have sold any hope in Paradise, and instead you bought the complete loss in your afterlife: that is for everyone who denies Prophet Mohammed and the Quran.

 

[eanassir]

The message was given to all people, in every geographical location, in all historical time frames in ways they could understand. The message is dynamic, ever changing and flowing with the changes in culture, language and times. The message may have been given to Mohamed, I don't know, I wasn't there. But he was not the only one and in this day and age message of the Koran has no more relevance. Neither does the Bible or the Torah or the Vedas.

Those people that wrote those books had no idea what was going to happen in the future, at this time. They lived in a place lost in the mists of time - a fantasy today because none of us was there so we have no way of knowing what it was like. We only have their word for it and we know that the word of man are transitory - many words today mean something completely different than they did then.

The only time and place to find the truth is right here, right now. Everything else is fiction. Jesus, Mohamed, Moses, Abraham are all fictitious characters from ancient books. There is no way to prove they existed or if what they said or did was truthfully recorded. It is, for all intents and purposes, a myth. Humans have got to stop living in the past because it blinds us to what is happening today.

In case you seek after "to find the truth is right here, right now" as you claim, then study the interpretation by the intepreter of the Quran and the Bible: because his inspiration is "right here, right now":

The Universe and the Quran

Man after Death

The Conflict between the Torah and the Quran​

 

[Cliffy]

In case you seek after "to find the truth is right here, right now" as you claim, then study the interpretation by the intepreter of the Quran and the Bible: because his inspiration is "right here, right now":

The Universe and the Quran

Man after Death

The Conflict between the Torah and the Quran​

The message was given to a bandit 1000 years or so ago. It has no relevance to modern society, science or anything. You want to believe that nonsense, go ahead but you are wasting your life, but then you won't find that out until after you die.

By the way, you are kinda cute when you are angry and telling people they are going to hell for not believing in the same BS as you. Ah, I hope some day you will come to your senses and live your life. The Quran is just a bunch of paper with words printed on it, nothing more. You worship a book but I do believe that is idolatry the same as Christians are idolaters for worshiping the Bible. It is against both religions but you both have it all wrong.

 

[AnnaG]

To every "people" God sent His apostles, and then if they follow their apostle, they are the "chosen".
Later on the messages and religion of God will be distorted, into some kind of idolatry and associating – with God - their apostle himself and his family members, because of the enthusiasm.​

Even to homo habilis, australopithecines, Anasazi, and others? I find that extremely unlikely. The Christian god and Allah are not that old.

 

[AnnaG]

Religion and mental illness


​

Mental illness has nothing to do with religion or non-religion. It may happen to anyone with any doctrine: atheism, idolatry and any of various religions.

But we sometimes say words like parables about some bad behaviours of some people, and we say: that person is really mad or lunatic or crazy ...etc.

>> There is a prophetic tradition: "The mad or the mentally-ill in fact is the disbeliever."

People said: "How is that?"

The prophet said: "That is because the "mentally-ill" man is only a diseased or ill person; while the disbeliever sees the truth of God and the afterlife Paradise and Hell, and yet he chooses Hell rather than Paradise."

>> The other point is that Satan has control over the associater and the idolater and the atheist, and will control his behavior and thinking almost completely: therefore most of "the possessed" you find them of those associating others (like idols, Jesus and imams) with God.

Example: Once, I saw an old woman taking her son to the hospital for the mentally ill patients;

I asked her: "What's the matter with your son? [I saw him a young man: with a large rosary in his hand, and some large green piece of cloth around his neck]"

She said: "He is with the darawish: who do their ceremonies of the zikr"

I said: "Your son is only possessed by Satan and the genies: they had control over the enthusiastic and the associater."

Then I said to the young man: "What's this green band around your neck?"

His mother said: "It is from the shrine of imam Kazim at Baghdad."

I said to him: "Throw away this band: which is some sort of associating Kazim with God; and know as it is in the Quran that God is the Patron who protects people, not Kazim and other righteous people."

The young man threw that band away, and took his rosary to throw it also.

I said to him: "The one to whom you should resort for protection is God alone: not Kazim, Jesus or Moses; because these are only some righteous servants of God: the best one among them is the one showing much servitude and obedience to God, and God is the True Patron."

And I advised him to read daily the soora of protection from Satan (soora #114)and from the evil of other creatures: (soora #113)

Then I told him to leave his friends because they may return him to their confusion.

The man responded and his mother was very glad.


>> Therefore, we have to differentiate between the false religions of polytheism and enthusiasm and association with God on one hand; and on the other hand the religion of God: which is the pure monotheism and devotion to God alone.

>> Another point is that the easiest way of Satan and disbelievers to oppose the apostle is to accuse him with the mental illness; this is in the Quran 51: 52-53​

كَذَلِكَ مَا أَتَى الَّذِينَمِن قَبْلِهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا قَالُوا سَاحِرٌ أَوْ مَجْنُونٌ

​

The explanation:
(Even so: not a messenger came to those [peoples] before [your people, O Mohammed], but they said: "A sorcerer, or mad.')

It means: Every nation of the ancient said about their apostle: he is a magician or mad and possessed; so that others might not accept his teachings; because people do not trust and do not follow the words of the mentally ill.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

And what about Marshall Applewhite, Tony Alamo, etc.? They were non-religious nuts?

 

[eanassir]

And what about Marshall Applewhite, Tony Alamo, etc.? They were non-religious nuts?

Satan confuses the idolaters and those associating patrons with God​

These were confused by Satan and the devils.

Satan has control over them step by step, until he completely has control on them and governs their thoughts and work.

This is in the Quran 6 : 137

وَكَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَ لِكَثِيرٍ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ قَتْلَ أَوْلاَدِهِمْ شُرَكَآؤُهُمْ لِيُرْدُوهُمْ وَلِيَلْبِسُواْ عَلَيْهِمْ دِينَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا فَعَلُوهُ فَذَرْهُمْ وَمَا يَفْتَرُونَ​

The explanation:
(Thus the associates, of numerous associaters, made fair-seeming to them the killing of their own children; ​

in order to let them fall into destruction and to confuse for them their religion. ​

If your Lord [O Mohammed] willed, they would not have done that; so leave them to their own lies.)​

The interpretation (according to the late interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly):
Satan deceived a large number of the idolaters and associaters, and he made fair-seeming to them that they should kill their sons in the way of sacrifice for their idols and those whom they associate with God, and he made fair seeming to many of the pagan Arab that they should kill their daughters to guard their honor.

So Satan incites the idolater that he should fulfill his vowing to his patrons: the idols and other patrons, and to offer his sons as a sacrifice the idols and his daughters for keeping his honor; and the purpose of Satan is to confuse their religion and make them lose completely.

Had God willed, they would not have done it; but because these associaters were wrong-doers, then God let this happen; and so, O Mohammed, leave them be: they will be requited with the evil reward according to their lies.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/
​

 

[big]

I don't know any, so I asked Google, and this is what I found. You're quite wrong, faith, at least in the religious sense, doesn't enter into it all.

If paranoia is rightfully and right from the start linked to Oedipus, it is precisely because he had no constructive relationship (no trust, no faith, etc.) with his father.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If paranoia is rightfully and right from the start linked to Oedipus, it is precisely because he had no constructive relationship (no trust, no faith, etc.) with his father.

You're deliberately confounding two different meanings of the word faith as if they were the same. Your initial claim in context was clearly a reference to religious faith, here you're converting it to mean confidence in a person, which is quite a different thing. Nice try, but that's a fallacy. Freud's claims about Oedipal impulses are also pretty dubious.

 

[AnnaG]

Satan confuses the idolaters and those associating patrons with God​

These were confused by Satan and the devils.

Satan has control over them step by step, until he completely has control on them and governs their thoughts and work.

This is in the Quran 6 : 137

وَكَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَ لِكَثِيرٍ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ قَتْلَ أَوْلاَدِهِمْ شُرَكَآؤُهُمْ لِيُرْدُوهُمْ وَلِيَلْبِسُواْ عَلَيْهِمْ دِينَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا فَعَلُوهُ فَذَرْهُمْ وَمَا يَفْتَرُونَ​

The explanation:
(Thus the associates, of numerous associaters, made fair-seeming to them the killing of their own children; ​

in order to let them fall into destruction and to confuse for them their religion. ​

If your Lord [O Mohammed] willed, they would not have done that; so leave them to their own lies.)​

The interpretation (according to the late interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly):
Satan deceived a large number of the idolaters and associaters, and he made fair-seeming to them that they should kill their sons in the way of sacrifice for their idols and those whom they associate with God, and he made fair seeming to many of the pagan Arab that they should kill their daughters to guard their honor.

So Satan incites the idolater that he should fulfill his vowing to his patrons: the idols and other patrons, and to offer his sons as a sacrifice the idols and his daughters for keeping his honor; and the purpose of Satan is to confuse their religion and make them lose completely.

Had God willed, they would not have done it; but because these associaters were wrong-doers, then God let this happen; and so, O Mohammed, leave them be: they will be requited with the evil reward according to their lies.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/
​

Why did this "merciful" god let them commit suicide and hence commit themselves to hell by going against this god's wishes?
I don't think gods are any smarter than people if they can't design circumstances and things better than they have. If I cared for my people, I would not allow them to do stupid things like Applewhite, Jim Jones, and others did. So apparently this god is no more powerful than this Satan creature. If I was a god and all-powerful and some demon Satan showed up, I'd poof the creature out of existence.