Is it necessary for cops to use lethal force against a guy with a knife?

[#juan]

One thing that is obvious from the start of this thing, is that nobody is in charge. Policemen and others were milling through the crime scene to the point where any evidence is just about useless. The shooting was unprovoked as far as I can tell. None of the other officers even took their guns out. What was the pause between the first three shots and the next six shots about? Did he decide to kill the guy rather than cripple him?

 

[lone wolf]

Contamination of a crime scene works ... Coverup 101

 

[JLM]

Wow man... You really are losing it
<smilie>

It's helpful before you start blathering, to address the person you are blathering at! The person you were referring to might not be a mind reader. -

 

[captain morgan]

One thing that is obvious from the start of this thing, is that nobody is in charge. Policemen and others were milling through the crime scene to the point where any evidence is just about useless. The shooting was unprovoked as far as I can tell. None of the other officers even took their guns out. What was the pause between the first three shots and the next six shots about? Did he decide to kill the guy rather than cripple him?

Don't you think that a man threatening the occupants of a bus to get off, let alone the kid refusing to relinquish the weapon is provocation?

 

[gerryh]

Don't you think that a man threatening the occupants of a bus to get off, let alone the kid refusing to relinquish the weapon is provocation?

Did he hurt anyone? If not, then the cop playing judge, jury, and executioner is way above his pay grade.

 

[lone wolf]

Don't you think that a man threatening the occupants of a bus to get off, let alone the kid refusing to relinquish the weapon is provocation?

Don't you understand the situation was diffused the moment the guy with the knife had nobody in the immediate vicinity to stab? The rest is just prison take-down

 

[#juan]

Don't you think that a man threatening the occupants of a bus to get off, let alone the kid refusing to relinquish the weapon is provocation?

No. The man was no threat inside the streetcar. Obviously none of the other officers felt threatened since they didn't even pull their guns out.

 

[gerryh]

I look forward to a charge of first degree murder against the cop with a guilty verdict and a 25 year sentence.............ROFLMFAO..... who am I kidding, he'll get a slap on the wrist and a promotion.

 

[JLM]

Don't you think that a man threatening the occupants of a bus to get off, let alone the kid refusing to relinquish the weapon is provocation?

Professional, well grounded cops don't respond to "provocation". That is just an excuse for weak minded people, which I'm sure you'll understand. -

I look forward to a charge of first degree murder against the cop with a guilty verdict and a 25 year sentence.............ROFLMFAO..... who am I kidding, he'll get a slap on the wrist and a promotion.

Just like the four A$$holes at Vancouver airport who murdered Zwiekanski!

 

[DaSleeper]

No. The man was no threat inside the streetcar. Obviously none of the other officers felt threatened since they didn't even pull their guns out.

If you look carefully two have their guns out and a third is talking on his radio.......

This is exactly how stories change the more you repeat it and convince yourself.........

 

[hunboldt]

No. The man was no threat inside the streetcar. Obviously none of the other officers felt threatened since they didn't even pull their guns out.

That is a tough one. Your thinking gets 'channelled ' when facing a knife holding opponent without a 'clear line of vision'.

I was surprised that none of the officers appears to have had access to a MACE canister . Bounce it off the ceiling then slam the doors shut. Psychotic people DO respond to chem agents- like the rest of us...
But not always to guns..
Bus doors have an outside release.

 

[captain morgan]

Did he hurt anyone? If not, then the cop playing judge, jury, and executioner is way above his pay grade.

Really?... So, it really makes sense then for anyone to be able to walk in public places with guns, knives and pipe bombs just as long as nobody is hurt on an after-the-fact basis.

Same logic right? Shouldn't be a problem to strap some dynamite to your chest and go sit in the mall, right?

Don't you understand the situation was diffused the moment the guy with the knife had nobody in the immediate vicinity to stab? The rest is just prison take-down

No. The man was no threat inside the streetcar. Obviously none of the other officers felt threatened since they didn't even pull their guns out.

Buddy wouldn't give up the knife... Presumably, somebody (read Cop) would have to go in and take care of things.... When this individual does go in, do they not exist 'in the immediate vicinity'?.. Would they have to be 'inside the street car'?

In my eyes, that is what much of this is about - someone eventually has to be in close range in order to complete the arrest... IF this kook isn't willing to relinquish the knife (as he refused to do), does it not stand to reason that AT SOME POINT, that threat exists?

I look forward to a charge of first degree murder against the cop with a guilty verdict and a 25 year sentence.............ROFLMFAO..... who am I kidding, he'll get a slap on the wrist and a promotion.

Don't hold your breath on that

 

[lone wolf]

So what's the diffence between a lone someone with a knife in a two-exited (both covered) streetcar and a lone someone barricaded with a gun in a house - for which the heat will wait him/her out - other than a schedule to keep and trollies backed up along the track?

 

[#juan]

So what's the diffence between a lone someone with a knife in a two-exited (both covered) streetcar and a lone someone barricaded with a gun in a house - for which the heat will wait him/her out - other than a schedule to keep and trollies backed up along the track?

Exactly. The wise thing to do was to wait him out. That, of course would change if he charged out of the streetcar threatening with his knife......but he didn't do that.

 

[hunboldt]

Exactly. The wise thing to do was to wait him out. That, of course would change if he charged out of the streetcar threatening with his knife......but he didn't do that.

WADR- not quite. If he waits he can get the bright idea of smashing open the streetcar windows ( they are designed for emergency exit), Which vents any lachrymatory agent or lachrymator , and gives him multiple escape routes.

I still feel 'gassing him out' makes sense. Advise if I'm missing something.

 

[karrie]

Your hoops, not mine... You just don't like the question as it deflates your position



Your entire line here is that he was no threat because no was on the bus at the time - remember?

I am simply asking IF you expect a cop to arrest him and IF that person does attempt an arrest, he/she will face a threat by this guy holding a knife.

I said, time and again, they did not need to arrest him instantly. He was contained, he had no one at hand he could injure, they could have, SHOULD have, attempted to talk him down rather than shoot him dead.

Really?... So, it really makes sense then for anyone to be able to walk in public places with guns, knives and pipe bombs just as long as nobody is hurt on an after-the-fact basis.

You seem to be confusing 'don't shoot him dead' with 'let him walk free'.

 

[petros]

It's surprising how much a video can change things.

Similar incident in PA about a couple weeks ago.....

Investigation continues into Prince Albert police shooting | CTV Saskatoon News

 

[hunboldt]

I said, time and again, they did not need to arrest him instantly. He was contained, he had no one at hand he could injure, they could have, SHOULD have, attempted to talk him down rather than shoot him dead.



You seem to be confusing 'don't shoot him dead' with 'let him walk free'.

I nominate you, Karrie, to talk Captain Morgan back to calm.....

 

[JLM]

Same logic right? Shouldn't be a problem to strap some dynamite to your chest and go sit in the mall, right?

Anyone with even the slightest knowledge about dynamite, knows that dynamite is as harmless as a candle, until a blasting cap is introduced. The more you open up Capt. the dumber you appear. -

I nominate you, Karrie, to talk Captain Morgan back to calm.....

Can you provide her with a sledge hammer? -

 

[#juan]

On another topic someone mentioned rubber bullets. If that trigger happy cop had fired a couple rubber bullets instead of 9mm slugs this whole thing would have been over with no loss of life.