Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
It will be 50 years at the very least before Canada is ready for electric vehicles and even then Canada won't have the resources to provide the electricity. How much more land can we afford to flood? Wind energy is largely a joke and wave energy is a bigger joke.

50 years? Then why is it that so many major companies are tooling up for electric car production by 2030 or earlier?

Read the following - it is a balanced article detailing the strangths and weaknesses of electric cars.
When Will Electric Cars Go Mainstream? It May Be Sooner Than You Think

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/climate/electric-cars-batteries.html
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,501
8,102
113
B.C.

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
50 years? Then why is it that so many major companies are tooling up for electric car production by 2030 or earlier?

Read the following - it is a balanced article detailing the strangths and weaknesses of electric cars.
When Will Electric Cars Go Mainstream? It May Be Sooner Than You Think

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/climate/electric-cars-batteries.html

No doubt a few will be built. Most people in their 40s and 50s today will continue to drive gasoline powered cars and most of those still have 30 or more years of driving ahead. Maybe in 50 years, electric cars will count for half the cars on the road PROVIDING they've been mostly problem free.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
6,160
113
Twin Moose Creek
Yep just like almost every interview with a demonstrator demanding the Gov. or the 1% pay for something, asked if they would be willing to give up a percentage of their money. The 2 common answers are that either they are in college and can't afford to or they don't make enough money to help with, and that is why they are protesting.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
Of course he/she hasn't, just like every other do-gooder that demands other folks actually take the actions that they somehow are exempted from doing


AHHHH! The Captain tells the electric Toy Car truth like it really is! Several LIE-berals on this site have already told us: "my next car will be a LIE-beral electric Toy vehicle- IF they can improve the range! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Good luck with that!

Meanwhile LIE-berals like Hoid salivate like rabid dogs as they count up all the gravy they can skim off the FORCED sale of electric Toy vehicles!

AS for the muddled thinker- Bar Silly Sister- he just hopes that western people are hurt and angry on a regular basis- just because he hates us!

What Bar Silly Sister DOES NOT want to tell us is that even oil companies are jumping on the electric Toy vehicle market BECAUSE LIE-BERALS HAVE THROWN SO MUCH MONEY AT THEM THEY FEEL COMPELLED TO TAKE SOME AND PLAY THE LIE-BERAL GAME!

Just so long as the money comes FAST AND EASY! NO HONEST results required!

Here is yet another article describing the total failure of ALL LIE-beral policy. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Shutdown of coal plants raised electricity rates, failed to reduce pollution:

Report: By Antonella Artuso, Toronto Sun. First posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 07:04 AM EST | Updated: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 09:22 AM EST

Wynne Liberals discrediting McGuinty Liberals by attacking report
Liberal hot air on coal plants shutdown
Ontario back in coal burning business

Ontario’s hell-bent determination to phase out coal-fired generation raised electricity rates without significantly improving air pollution levels, a new Fraser Institute report says.

Report co-author Ross McKitrick, an economics professor at the University of Guelph, said the findings should act as a cautionary tale for Alberta and Ottawa currently going down the same road.

Even though there was reliable information available at the time that showed Ontario coal was not a big player in common air pollution ingredients, the political agenda made it impossible to discuss less expensive options to full closure, he said.

(In truth any reduction in coal burning is helpful-even the minuscule amounts that Ontari-owe burns in comparison to Yankees- the LIE-beral trouble is with replacing coal with mouldy green energy at about 900 percent higher rates than coal or natural gas burning! With the added bonus that the mouldy green generation is so unreliable that natural gas generators are kept burning-AT FULL POWER-24/7 and ready to kick in at a moments notice when the wind stops blowing or the sun goes behind a cloud. A further LIE-beral bonus is that LIE-berals have shut down an array of water generating stations- just letting millions of gallons of water- the cheapest and cleanest form of generation- flush away without producing a single kilowatt of power since LIE-berals needed room on the power grid for the mouldy green crap generated by their FRIENDS! It’s a grab bag of GIFTS to LIE-beral pals at HUGE cost to comsumers!)

“They just demonized it up and down — made it impossible to even have the conversation,” added McKitrick. “They turned it into a really dirty word and that had the effect of shutting down the whole discussion even before it began which, of course, led to a lot of really bad decision making ... The lessons translate directly over to Alberta.”

Ontario closed its last coal plant in 2014, and made it illegal to open any more.

(And of course Hydor One- the now semi private power company now dominated by firends of LIE-beral party in spiter of tax payers still owning the majority of shares- has just bought into a Yankee power company that STILL DOES burn coal! With the added LIE-beral bonus that the Yankee company is being SUED for a massive cleanup of pollution that it dumped over the years- LIE-berals may end up disappointed by the amount of revenue their latest investment pulls in!)

The most significant closures were the Lambton and Nanticoke stations which represented 25% of the province’s total supply of electricity.

(While at the same time, Yankees closed something like 140 coal burning plants! It is NOT LIE-beral planning that is having any effect on environment since our coal burning plants are not that much cleaner than the new gas plants LIE-berals had to build to compensate for mouldy green failures!)

Dan Moulton, a spokesman for Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault, said coal plants were a major contributor to air pollution, and a 2016 Toronto Vital Signs report shows a 23% drop in premature deaths and a 41% drop in hospitalizations caused by air pollution since 2004.

(And this is courtesy of Yankee efforts- NOT our LIE-berals!)

“Eliminating coal also took the equivalent of 7 million cars off our roads which remains the single largest climate change action undertaken on the continent,” Moulton said in an e-mail. “The fact is, smog days caused by coal-fired power plants were making our kids sick. Today, those smog days are gone and our kids have cleaner air to breathe.”

(So why don’t LIE-berals make MORE USE of the clean water powered generators they are currently NOT using- and shut down some of the costly and unreliable green crap and shut a couple of the natural gas fossil fuel burning plants as well?? LIE-beral green pals NEED their entitlements! Its all about making power generation into a HUGE LIE-beral slush fund and to hell with consumers!)

The Fraser Institute report, Did the Coal Phase-out Reduce Air Pollution, looked at the impact of closing the plants on the level of fine particulates, nitrogen oxides and ground-level ozones in Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa.

The small and, in some cases, statistically insignificant improvements in air quality in a few locations could have been achieved more cheaply with pollution control devices like scrubbers, the report concluded.

(And of course installing scrubbers and letting the now much cleaner plants continue in operation would have messed up LIE-beral power generation slush fund plans and the flow of gravy to civil service Hogs!)

Residential wood-burning fireplaces, dust from unpaved roads and even meat cooking were bigger contributors to fine particulate emissions than coal-fired generation, according to the 2005 Environment Canada Air Pollution Emissions Inventory.

McKitrick also disputed the health savings claim, noting the government argued in 2005 that it could save $3 billion in annual health care costs by shuttering coal — roughly 10% of the whole health care budget at the time.

“It wasn’t questioned,” McKitrick said. “People were at the time and largely remain very uniformed about the sources of air pollution emissions in Ontario so this picture was created that these two power plants were blanketing the province with smog.”

(Statistics that LIE-berals do not want to discuss reveal that about 50 percent of ALL air pollution in southern Ontari-owe used to come from Ohio and Pennsylvania and places like that- places well out of reach of LIE-beral legislation! And with the 2008 Yankee mortgage melt down, much of that old economic activity is gone- no thanks to Ontari-owe LIE-berals with their relentless price gouging and vast entitlements! )

Scrubbers would not have reduced greenhouse gas emissions, but McKitrick argued the purchase of carbon offsets would have been an inexpensive option.

(We are in the midst of this carbon credit crap and it is a bigger fraud than mouldy green energy! Buying carbon credits means we pay somebody else- and LIE-berals prefer to pay third world despots- for our pollution permission- which is what a carbon credit is- a permit to be dirty! But paying third world types fo carbon means they now have more money to make their own pollution! Carbon credits actually INCREASE air pollution around the world by transferring cash and giving more people access to motorbikes, cars and airplanes and electrically operated appliances!)

Expert: No coal costs $5 billion a year. About $5 billion in annual hydro bills are associated with the provincial government’s move to close coal plants and replace them with more expensive sources of electricity, says an independent energy advisor.

Tom Adams said while it’s difficult to pinpoint the exact impact on bills, the cost is far more than the extra $2 a month per customer predicted by one anti-coal group.

(The anti coal lobby contains some of the most radical environmentalist on the planet- people so extreme in their views they would ban all burning of anything and ravage our economy for the sake of Mother Earth. The survivors of their extreme policies would end up living in vast slums of mud huts and eating their daily meal of Dandelion Greens raw and cold because wood is sacred and not for burning nor for building and of course all rivers should run free- hydro dams are sacrilege!)

“It was a decisive change in the trajectory of electricity costs,” Adams said Monday. “Figuring out exactly what the cost of getting rid of coal is, that’s hard country because there are so many moving parts ... But if I’m asked to put a price tag on it, it’s something like $5 billion a year.”

An Ontario auditor report noted that between 2003-14, the province eliminated 7,546 MW of electricity generation from coal and added 13,595 MW of new capacity — mostly wind, natural gas and nuclear power.

(With the added bonus that while LIE-berals screwed around with their power generation slush fund they IGNORED the increasingly unreliable state of our power grid with its increasing failure and fire rates!)

During that time period, Ontario electricity consumers saw the commodity portion of their bill rise by 80%, the auditor found.

While all three provincial political parties favoured the eventual phase out of coal, they were a “little foggy” about how they would replace that relatively cheap and plentiful source of generation, Adams said.

Expensive renewables, gas plant fiascos, pricey nuclear power refurbishment contracts and other questionable actions followed that decision — all driving up the price of electricity, Adams said.

Dan Moulton, a spokesman for Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault, said there have been costs incurred as the government modernized and cleaned up the electricity system. “Ontario has already done the heavy lifting to rebuild aging infrastructure and transition off of coal,” he said.

(In related news: Ontario businesses eye fleeing over minimum wage hike- that added hit on top of hydro rate hikes that give only temporary relief to home owners but leave out most smaller businesses!)

One-third of small and medium Ontario businesses are considering selling, moving to the U.S. or closing shop in response to provincial government plans to hike the minimum wage to $15 an hour, a Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CIFB) poll of its members revealed.

(As we have a service industry, with most of us selling something to others, a significant rise in minimum wage will translate into a LOT LESS people coming through retail doors! Hotels, bars, restaurants, movie theaters and all manner of entertainment venues will see significant price increases that will deter customers- meaning reduced hours and lost jobs for the service industry that employs a majority of Cdns! But that IS the LIE-beral way- short term gain for long term pain!)
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Have you bought one yet ?

I don't have the desire or need for an new car. My old 2007 Sportage runs just fine and is fully paid for, so what would be the point. In any case your point is not relevant to the thread.

No doubt a few will be built. Most people in their 40s and 50s today will continue to drive gasoline powered cars and most of those still have 30 or more years of driving ahead. Maybe in 50 years, electric cars will count for half the cars on the road PROVIDING they've been mostly problem free.

You have to look at the bigger picture. Several European nations plan to ban the internal combustion engine so far as personal transport is concerned. More nations will almost certainly follow. California already has a bill that would ban gasoline powered cars by 2040. Expect other states to follow. It is entirely possible you won't have a choice except to buy electric unless you have a commercial need for a gas or diesel powered vehicle. And consider this: what could possibly be more appealing to large auto makers than the prospect of replacing all of their current vehicles with electric?

AHHHH! The Captain tells the electric Toy Car truth like it really is! Several LIE-berals on this site have already told us: "my next car will be a LIE-beral electric Toy vehicle- IF they can improve the range! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Good luck with that!

Meanwhile LIE-berals like Hoid salivate like rabid dogs as they count up all the gravy they can skim off the FORCED sale of electric Toy vehicles!

AS for the muddled thinker- Bar Silly Sister- he just hopes that western people are hurt and angry on a regular basis- just because he hates us!

What Bar Silly Sister DOES NOT want to tell us is that even oil companies are jumping on the electric Toy vehicle market BECAUSE LIE-BERALS HAVE THROWN SO MUCH MONEY AT THEM THEY FEEL COMPELLED TO TAKE SOME AND PLAY THE LIE-BERAL GAME!

Just so long as the money comes FAST AND EASY! NO HONEST results required!

Here is yet another article describing the total failure of ALL LIE-beral policy. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Shutdown of coal plants raised electricity rates, failed to reduce pollution:

Report: By Antonella Artuso, Toronto Sun. First posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 07:04 AM EST | Updated: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 09:22 AM EST

Wynne Liberals discrediting McGuinty Liberals by attacking report
Liberal hot air on coal plants shutdown
Ontario back in coal burning business

Ontario’s hell-bent determination to phase out coal-fired generation raised electricity rates without significantly improving air pollution levels, a new Fraser Institute report says.

Report co-author Ross McKitrick, an economics professor at the University of Guelph, said the findings should act as a cautionary tale for Alberta and Ottawa currently going down the same road.

Even though there was reliable information available at the time that showed Ontario coal was not a big player in common air pollution ingredients, the political agenda made it impossible to discuss less expensive options to full closure, he said.

(In truth any reduction in coal burning is helpful-even the minuscule amounts that Ontari-owe burns in comparison to Yankees- the LIE-beral trouble is with replacing coal with mouldy green energy at about 900 percent higher rates than coal or natural gas burning! With the added bonus that the mouldy green generation is so unreliable that natural gas generators are kept burning-AT FULL POWER-24/7 and ready to kick in at a moments notice when the wind stops blowing or the sun goes behind a cloud. A further LIE-beral bonus is that LIE-berals have shut down an array of water generating stations- just letting millions of gallons of water- the cheapest and cleanest form of generation- flush away without producing a single kilowatt of power since LIE-berals needed room on the power grid for the mouldy green crap generated by their FRIENDS! It’s a grab bag of GIFTS to LIE-beral pals at HUGE cost to comsumers!)

“They just demonized it up and down — made it impossible to even have the conversation,” added McKitrick. “They turned it into a really dirty word and that had the effect of shutting down the whole discussion even before it began which, of course, led to a lot of really bad decision making ... The lessons translate directly over to Alberta.”

Ontario closed its last coal plant in 2014, and made it illegal to open any more.

(And of course Hydor One- the now semi private power company now dominated by firends of LIE-beral party in spiter of tax payers still owning the majority of shares- has just bought into a Yankee power company that STILL DOES burn coal! With the added LIE-beral bonus that the Yankee company is being SUED for a massive cleanup of pollution that it dumped over the years- LIE-berals may end up disappointed by the amount of revenue their latest investment pulls in!)

The most significant closures were the Lambton and Nanticoke stations which represented 25% of the province’s total supply of electricity.

(While at the same time, Yankees closed something like 140 coal burning plants! It is NOT LIE-beral planning that is having any effect on environment since our coal burning plants are not that much cleaner than the new gas plants LIE-berals had to build to compensate for mouldy green failures!)

Dan Moulton, a spokesman for Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault, said coal plants were a major contributor to air pollution, and a 2016 Toronto Vital Signs report shows a 23% drop in premature deaths and a 41% drop in hospitalizations caused by air pollution since 2004.

(And this is courtesy of Yankee efforts- NOT our LIE-berals!)

“Eliminating coal also took the equivalent of 7 million cars off our roads which remains the single largest climate change action undertaken on the continent,” Moulton said in an e-mail. “The fact is, smog days caused by coal-fired power plants were making our kids sick. Today, those smog days are gone and our kids have cleaner air to breathe.”

(So why don’t LIE-berals make MORE USE of the clean water powered generators they are currently NOT using- and shut down some of the costly and unreliable green crap and shut a couple of the natural gas fossil fuel burning plants as well?? LIE-beral green pals NEED their entitlements! Its all about making power generation into a HUGE LIE-beral slush fund and to hell with consumers!)

The Fraser Institute report, Did the Coal Phase-out Reduce Air Pollution, looked at the impact of closing the plants on the level of fine particulates, nitrogen oxides and ground-level ozones in Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa.

The small and, in some cases, statistically insignificant improvements in air quality in a few locations could have been achieved more cheaply with pollution control devices like scrubbers, the report concluded.

(And of course installing scrubbers and letting the now much cleaner plants continue in operation would have messed up LIE-beral power generation slush fund plans and the flow of gravy to civil service Hogs!)

Residential wood-burning fireplaces, dust from unpaved roads and even meat cooking were bigger contributors to fine particulate emissions than coal-fired generation, according to the 2005 Environment Canada Air Pollution Emissions Inventory.

McKitrick also disputed the health savings claim, noting the government argued in 2005 that it could save $3 billion in annual health care costs by shuttering coal — roughly 10% of the whole health care budget at the time.

“It wasn’t questioned,” McKitrick said. “People were at the time and largely remain very uniformed about the sources of air pollution emissions in Ontario so this picture was created that these two power plants were blanketing the province with smog.”

(Statistics that LIE-berals do not want to discuss reveal that about 50 percent of ALL air pollution in southern Ontari-owe used to come from Ohio and Pennsylvania and places like that- places well out of reach of LIE-beral legislation! And with the 2008 Yankee mortgage melt down, much of that old economic activity is gone- no thanks to Ontari-owe LIE-berals with their relentless price gouging and vast entitlements! )

Scrubbers would not have reduced greenhouse gas emissions, but McKitrick argued the purchase of carbon offsets would have been an inexpensive option.

(We are in the midst of this carbon credit crap and it is a bigger fraud than mouldy green energy! Buying carbon credits means we pay somebody else- and LIE-berals prefer to pay third world despots- for our pollution permission- which is what a carbon credit is- a permit to be dirty! But paying third world types fo carbon means they now have more money to make their own pollution! Carbon credits actually INCREASE air pollution around the world by transferring cash and giving more people access to motorbikes, cars and airplanes and electrically operated appliances!)

Expert: No coal costs $5 billion a year. About $5 billion in annual hydro bills are associated with the provincial government’s move to close coal plants and replace them with more expensive sources of electricity, says an independent energy advisor.

Tom Adams said while it’s difficult to pinpoint the exact impact on bills, the cost is far more than the extra $2 a month per customer predicted by one anti-coal group.

(The anti coal lobby contains some of the most radical environmentalist on the planet- people so extreme in their views they would ban all burning of anything and ravage our economy for the sake of Mother Earth. The survivors of their extreme policies would end up living in vast slums of mud huts and eating their daily meal of Dandelion Greens raw and cold because wood is sacred and not for burning nor for building and of course all rivers should run free- hydro dams are sacrilege!)

“It was a decisive change in the trajectory of electricity costs,” Adams said Monday. “Figuring out exactly what the cost of getting rid of coal is, that’s hard country because there are so many moving parts ... But if I’m asked to put a price tag on it, it’s something like $5 billion a year.”

An Ontario auditor report noted that between 2003-14, the province eliminated 7,546 MW of electricity generation from coal and added 13,595 MW of new capacity — mostly wind, natural gas and nuclear power.

(With the added bonus that while LIE-berals screwed around with their power generation slush fund they IGNORED the increasingly unreliable state of our power grid with its increasing failure and fire rates!)

During that time period, Ontario electricity consumers saw the commodity portion of their bill rise by 80%, the auditor found.

While all three provincial political parties favoured the eventual phase out of coal, they were a “little foggy” about how they would replace that relatively cheap and plentiful source of generation, Adams said.

Expensive renewables, gas plant fiascos, pricey nuclear power refurbishment contracts and other questionable actions followed that decision — all driving up the price of electricity, Adams said.

Dan Moulton, a spokesman for Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault, said there have been costs incurred as the government modernized and cleaned up the electricity system. “Ontario has already done the heavy lifting to rebuild aging infrastructure and transition off of coal,” he said.

(In related news: Ontario businesses eye fleeing over minimum wage hike- that added hit on top of hydro rate hikes that give only temporary relief to home owners but leave out most smaller businesses!)

One-third of small and medium Ontario businesses are considering selling, moving to the U.S. or closing shop in response to provincial government plans to hike the minimum wage to $15 an hour, a Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CIFB) poll of its members revealed.

(As we have a service industry, with most of us selling something to others, a significant rise in minimum wage will translate into a LOT LESS people coming through retail doors! Hotels, bars, restaurants, movie theaters and all manner of entertainment venues will see significant price increases that will deter customers- meaning reduced hours and lost jobs for the service industry that employs a majority of Cdns! But that IS the LIE-beral way- short term gain for long term pain!)

That is an incredibly long and stupid post. I think you may have set a new record for senseless off-topic blabber.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
They might as well ban bonfires. When you get between me and the fire

I,ll smash yer bones fer the nice heat

You can tell friendly peaple, they are warm,heat sucking people, vampires, are easily marked, he room got cold, the candle flickered, a soul changed position, shifted a hip, just lay there quietly, you did what you could, that was all that was asked demanded of life, what will the tax load be in the next life? I,m trying to find out if I can afford death?

I,am not breathing, but I still occupy space, how much of my budget should I allocate for the maintenance of my remains?

I think that your generation is aware of energy, but

Three countries are leading the renewable energy revolution


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/countries- this idea of a renwewable energey revolution is pure stupid. Energy is not renewable, there is this much and no more, however harvesting energy can engender the illusion of producing energy which you can,t do because it already saturates your spatial reality I guess. It,ds always full , you can,t stuff it with bullshjt.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
No more F-150s???

Too bad as they are a big favorite among Gopherland rednecks.

They ran out of parts, therefore stopping two Ford Assembly lines. The managers responsible were just re-assigned new responsibilities at the Ulan Bator branch.