Is Canada anti-Muslim?

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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No Beve it won't ever be Colpy's turn or my turn.....

The worse thing that could happen to Colpy or me is that a plane load of Jihadists or Jehovah Witnessess or Roman Catholic Crusaders should fall from the sky and squash our noggins..... Colpy and I will be dead long before the worst is seen. If we're killed soon we'll be the lucky ones.

Our children will have every right to hate us.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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No Beve it won't ever be Colpy's turn or my turn.....

The worse thing that could happen to Colpy or me is that a plane load of Jihadists or Jehovah Witnessess or Roman Catholic Crusaders should fall from the sky and squash our noggins..... Colpy and I will be dead long before the worst is seen. If we're killed soon we'll be the lucky ones.

Our children will have every right to hate us.

Mikey, seriously, LIGHTEN UP, fer God's sake!

I don't know how you drag yourself through the week........a little (just a LITTLE) optimism is a prerequisite to good mental health.

You sound so much like Eyore.....it isn't even funny.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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If there isn't there should be. The religion is a vile sickness and I do not want it spreading here to Canada.
Hi, Scott;
Of that we should have thought before we imported people from Islamic countries! Were we thinking they would all convert to Christianity?
The remedy is of coarse free speech where people can point out and dissect the religions horrid nature.
I agree wholeheartedly to free speech! But then it has to be right across the entire board! No exceptions, please.
The worst thing possible then is to enact laws prohibiting such discussions as "hatred."
Well, that prohibition has already been enacted, but only for another group of people, not for the Muslims.
There is a point where being too liberal can become dangerous.
Slander and hate incitements should always be forbidden! But talking and stating one's opinion about any certain group and/or their religion, or historic events or whatever should be allowed in a free society. As Dexter pointed out, the Muslims are free to respond to Steyn's accusations, what they were going to do, but wanted it printed in the same magazine, McCleans, who refused emphaticly. That was their right. The Muslims could counter by publishing their response to Steyn's article in some other publication. I would see that as a good solution to vent their disappointment and defend themselves. Actually, they don't have to defend themselves....we all know that the overwhelming majority of Muslims is peaceful! It is just that some hate mongers like to point their finger at certain passages of the Quran, forgetting that they themselves have similar hateful and disgusting passages in their Bibel!!!
Some things shouldn't be accepted. Violent religions full of hatred is one IMO.
Then have laws passed that forbid any religion! The most cruel and vile acts have been performed in the name of religion!!
It isn't hatred to say a religion is a vile illness. Christianity is one too. So we have checks and balances such as the seperation of church and state. My statement does not reflect on the religions adherents except to say they are infected. If I say smallpox is a vile illness am I saying the people infected with smallpox are vile? No, I certainly am not. So too when I say the Muslims and Christians and any other religion is an illness I do not mean any harm to the infected. It is not anyones fault they are ill. Typically the sickness is caught at a very young age anyway, before culpability is a factor.
I can agree with that! I guess that could be the reason why in the West the numbers of Atheists are increasing by leaps and bounds... to get away from that vile illness! Because of this fact the West has left a hole, a void which quite naturally will be filled by other religions.
Yes, lets keep Canada as healthy as possible.
And how are you going to do that? That is the crucial question!
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Mikey, seriously, LIGHTEN UP, fer God's sake!

I don't know how you drag yourself through the week........a little (just a LITTLE) optimism is a prerequisite to good mental health.

You sound so much like Eyore.....it isn't even funny.

Eyore! At last we get a true perspective of your mentors.:smile:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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'I can agree with that! I guess that could be the reason why in the West the numbers of Atheists are increasing by leaps and bounds... to get away from that vile illness! Because of this fact the West has left a hole, a void which quite naturally will be filled by other religions.
Quote: Yes, lets keep Canada as healthy as possible.
And how are you going to do that? That is the crucial question!'


That hole should be filled naturally by reverance for the planet and the wonderous mechanisms of the universe but everytime charlatans rise to the oportunity ever ready to invent god anew. If we want to restore this nations health, which it never had incidentally, we must as a first step eliminate the international bankers and adopt socialism with a passion.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Interesting....that for a few, damn near every topic on this board turns into being about jews....corprorate greed, or corproate greed caused by the jews.:roll:
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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www.contactcorp.net
Locke And Load: Hobbes

All this self-satisfying gobbledegook about John Locke.....well its as disingenuous as Allah and Jihad....

---------------------------------------MikeyDB-----------------------------------------------------

He insisted that people, not rulers, are sovereign.

Government, Locke wrote, “can never have a Power to take to themselves the whole or any part of the Subjects Property, without their own consent. For this would be in effect to leave them no Property at all.” He makes his point even more explicit: rulers “must not raise Taxes on the Property of the People, without the Consent of the People, given by themselves, or their Deputies.”

He defended the natural law tradition whose glorious lineage goes back to the ancient Jews: the tradition that rulers cannot legitimately do anything they want, because there are moral laws applying to everyone.

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4125

And then there's Hobbes of Leviathan:

In his natural state, according to Hobbes, man's life consisted entirely of liberties and not at all of laws - "It followeth, that in such a condition, every man has the right to every thing; even to one another's body. And therefore, as long as this natural Right of every man to every thing endureth, there can be no security to any man... of living out the time, which Nature ordinarily allow men to live." (ibid.)

This would lead inevitably to a situation known as the "war of all against all", in which human beings kill, steal and enslave others in order to stay alive, and due to their natural lust for "Gain", "Safety" and "Reputation". Hobbes reasoned that this world of chaos created by unlimited rights was highly undesirable, since it would cause human life to be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". As such, if humans wish to live peacefully they must give up most of their natural rights and create moral obligations in order to establish political and civil society. This is one of the earliest formulations of the theory of government known as the social contract.

Hobbes objected to the attempt to derive rights from "natural law," arguing that law ("lex") and right ("jus") though often confused, signify opposites, with law referring to obligations, while rights refer to the absence of obligations. Since by our (human) nature, we seek to maximize our well being, rights are prior to law, natural or institutional, and people will not follow the laws of nature without first being subjected to a sovereign power, without which all ideas of right and wrong are rendered insignificant - "Therefore before the names of Just and Unjust can have place, there must be some coercive Power, to compel men equally to the performance of their Covenants..., to make good that Propriety, which by mutual contract men acquire, in recompense of the universal Right they abandon: and such power there is none before the erection of the Commonwealth." (Leviathan. 1, XV)

This marked an important departure from medieval natural law theories which gave precedence to obligations over rights. However, some thinkers such as Leo Strauss, maintained that Hobbes kept the primacy of natural law or moral obligation over natural rights, and thus did not fully break with medieval thought.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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hehe As far as I know, we all have the opportunity and the "right" to leave each other to our own devices. But we don't. Such is human folly.
Anyway, I have nothing against any religion other than they should stick to guiding people on how to leave others to their own devices and love each other. Past that they should clam up and sit down and behave. Islam is one. Christianity is another. lol Most are founded upon illusitory bases, but their elemental message is pretty cool if you can pick it out while mired in gigatons of dogma.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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I do not agree that religion is a vile illness.......

I do agree that Islam appears to be incompatible with a free society.

I would point out the the foundations of English (and American) democracy and liberty in the west are built on the solid rock of Christianity.......(waxing poetic here, try not to puke :))

John Locke, the premier philosopher extolling the political rights of man in the 1600s, believed was inspired by God.....if man was, as an individual, important enough to God that he sacrificed His Son, than each individual must be important in worldly society.........


Actually western civilization was largely forged inspite of, nearly killed by and waged a constant war against, Christianity.

Much "Christian Tradition" that supports western thought it actually western thought that altered Christian teachings to fit in local customs.

Greek and Roman concepts existed before Christianity spread.

And many areas without pre-christian western influences (that are christian) are not free nor culutrally the same as western civilizations (Such as Russia).

Christianity by its nature is opposed to western civilization in the same way Islam is, they have central tenants that are diametrically opposed to western morality.
 

Scott Free

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May 9, 2007
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I would point out the the foundations of English (and American) democracy and liberty in the west are built on the solid rock of Christianity.......(waxing poetic here, try not to puke :)

They were, that and genocide, 110,000,000 by some estimates. Christianity is compatible with peace so long as your white.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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IApparently the Muslims feel he was promoting hate against them, and that is against the law, as far as I know.
Yes, it's against the law, but I've read Steyn's piece and that's not what he was doing. He offered a conclusion about Islam in a free society, with facts and arguments to support it. They just didn't like the conclusion, not surprisingly, and their response pretty clearly demonstrates his point. They won't tolerate criticism and try to use the laws of a free society to shut it down.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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Yes, it's against the law, but I've read Steyn's piece and that's not what he was doing. He offered a conclusion about Islam in a free society, with facts and arguments to support it. They just didn't like the conclusion, not surprisingly, and their response pretty clearly demonstrates his point. They won't tolerate criticism and try to use the laws of a free society to shut it down.
IF you have read Steyn's article, then you are ahead of me and likely most others. But,... you may see nothing wrong in the "factual" presentation of how Islam will take over Western society, the Muslims see it differently. So, Dexter Sinister, who are you to judge? Your opinion and interpretation of Steyn's essay could be biased, and if I had an opinion, mine could also be biased... the other way!

I think at the bottom of this dispute lies the fact that the two opponents are arch enemies!
From your praise of Steyn I gather that he is a smart enough man not to expose himself to accusations for spreading hate. Yet, the Muslims perceived it as such.
I would recommend to the Muslims to either ignore Steyn, or slug back in the same fashion!
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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I don't recall ever being "outed" as a depressed and depressing figure from a child's storybook...!

We've refused to accept responsibility for our own appetites Colpy! While Europe writhed in conflict for hundreds of years it became apparent to a few that the only people who make war and cultivate the suffering of others are those who control either wealth or "religion". Trading comapnies wanted shorter cheaper trade routes.....The Hudson's Bay company wanted exclusive access and control to the means of accumulating wealth...gold deposits on this continent drove the "homesteading" syndrome not the noble enterprise of a land of freedom and equality! To pretend for a moment that the genesis of North American culture was anything but self-interest and greed...is not simply disingenuous but pataently delusional.

To similarly regard the construct of "government" as not explicitly and implicitly involved in shaping the economies of nations is well....

It wasn't Martians who created the mess we're in Colpy it's been a decision process embraced by "consumers" who've grown so complacent with "prosperity" and "success" that this addiction has evolved into a sentiment best described as "entitlement".

We feel entitiled to operate sweatshops in foreign nations...after all if their ideas and beliefs and actions and behaviour were "superior" to ours....well then there'd be white people serving customers in Seven Eleven and Mac's Milk.... There'd be white people picking tobbacco and fruit and harvesting the crops our "prosperity" and our "success" made possible. Imagine! Taxicab drivers who didn't have beards and Middle Eastern accents.... Hotel and restauraunt service people who spoke English and lived next door to us "consumers" in our plush gated communities....

There'd be children and women working for subsitance wages in working conditions that the average American or Canadian wouldn't consider....

Sorry to burst your childhood fantasies and bring shame on your heroes Colpy but the fairy tale is over.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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'I can agree with that! I guess that could be the reason why in the West the numbers of Atheists are increasing by leaps and bounds... to get away from that vile illness! Because of this fact the West has left a hole, a void which quite naturally will be filled by other religions.

That hole should be filled naturally by reverence for the planet and the wondrous mechanisms of the universe but every time charlatans rise to the opportunity ever ready to invent god anew. If we want to restore this nations health, which it never had incidentally, we must as a first step eliminate the international bankers and adopt socialism with a passion.
Dearest Beaver, I very much agree to the reverence for our planet... wish we could form a society all over the world and simply poop on the war mongers and your banker bandits. To seem powerless against the materialistic world should not deter us from doing our little bit for nature where ever we have an opportunity.

Socialism?...hmm... I know very little. Didn't they have Socialism in East-Germany? My former neighbor came from there and was much disillusioned ... it doesn't work, he said.
I could be mistaken, though... maybe there are different kinds of Socialism.
I know you had a thread going on that topic, but I never joined in the discussion, because it was already too far ahead when I discovered it.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
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IF you have read Steyn's article, then you are ahead of me and likely most others. But,... you may see nothing wrong in the "factual" presentation of how Islam will take over Western society, the Muslims see it differently. So, Dexter Sinister, who are you to judge? Your opinion and interpretation of Steyn's essay could be biased, and if I had an opinion, mine could also be biased... the other way!

I think at the bottom of this dispute lies the fact that the two opponents are arch enemies!
From your praise of Steyn I gather that he is a smart enough man not to expose himself to accusations for spreading hate. Yet, the Muslims perceived it as such.
I would recommend to the Muslims to either ignore Steyn, or slug back in the same fashion!
I would recommend to the muslims to point out the inaccuracies in the article or in Steyn's book 'America Alone'. They can't. They would rather silence anyone who would object to their cult. Go to www.thereligionofpeace.com for daily updates on these peaceful people.
 
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wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
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I agree with that... makes sense, is fair.Apparently the Muslims feel he was promoting hate against them, and that is against the law, as far as I know.

Certain people were arrested for writing stuff about the Jews and the holocaust, which is forbidden, because it is anti-semitic, it insults the Jews. So, why are you denying the Muslims equal status and protection?

I have to say that I have not read Mark Steyn's offending remarks about the Muslims, I rely on the testimony of the two Muslim Elders.
Priceless. Listen to one side of the story and draw conclusions from that. I'll bet you are a truther also.Critical,analytical thinking, that's for other people.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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I would recommend to the muslims to point out the inaccuracies in the article or in Steyn's book 'America Alone'. They can't. They would rather silence anyone who would object to their cult. Go to www.thereligionofpeace.com for daily updates on these peaceful people.
That website reeks for miles against the wind of hate literature!!! I wouldn't believe a word that's printed!
 
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dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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Priceless. Listen to one side of the story and draw conclusions from that. I'll bet you are a truther also.Critical,analytical thinking, that's for other people.
I bet you haven't read Steyn's book either! If you just want to attack me as a person, I will ignore you from now on. This is a discussion board, personal insults have no business here!