I couldnt help but read the article on amnifest destiny and i must say that that has to do with America expanding westward, Iraq has nothing to do with incresing the power or prestige of America but has to do with the duty that we feel as americans to help and protect other people in the world that need protecting, such as the people in Iraq, one of the reasons i joined this site was to get the point of view from other peoples throughout the world since up to now i have only been exposed to American beliefs. I am attempting to see the argument from your point of view as well as from the perspective of other people throughout the world and i must say that you are doing an admirable job of expressing your opinions
Is Bush the worst U.S. president ever?
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That would have been a very bad thing, but there was never any danger of that happening. Iraq was a target from the beginning, long before 9/11 and any worries about WMDs arose, and Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Wolfowitz, Bush, et al., believed what they wanted to believe, not what the evidence showed. But it's not really about Iraq anyway, and never was. It's not about terrorism or oil either, except peripherally. It's about the way the world runs and who's going to be in charge. In September of 2002 a 34 page document was submitted to Congress called The National Security Strategy of the United States. It contains this sentence: "The United States will not hesitate to strike preemptively against its enemies, and will never again allow its military supremacy to be challenged." The document clearly implies the U.S. should be the only global superpower, not merely the world's police force but its judge, jury, and executioner, forever. Talk about Manifest Destiny...
The U.S. came out of the Cold War as the only superpower, and the goal of taking over the world must have seemed within reach, but U.S. administrations didn't attempt it, until a random--in the sense that it could easily NOT have happened, for a variety of reasons--event on 11 Sept. 2001 let loose the forces, represented by people like Cheney, Rumsfeldt, and Wolfowitz, that were itching to try it. They did, and now we're all living in the middle of an airplane crash. The UN's hundred-year project to end war has been seriously compromised by U.S. unilateralism. I think the U.S. needs to lose in Iraq as soon as possible, and it'd be nice if Iraq doesn't lose too. The civil war the invasion's let loose makes that unlikely, but that's a lesser consideration. Iraq's less important than the planet.
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I, as an American, believe that all first worl countries in the world at the moment are important playing pieces on the earth and i believe that we should use this God-given power to help those less fortunate such as the people in Iraq who were oppressed by Saddam Hussein and needed the help of the poeple such as you and i to get rid of him. Goodnight, more tomorrow
The worst thing that Saddam Hussein did to the u.s., was to 'snub his nose' at their threats. He also refused to cave in to the accusations that he had wmds, but he did
allow the inspectors in, and they did not find anything they were looking for.
While all of that was happening, bush was sending troops, warships, planes, and more
threats to the persian gulf, in preparation for an attack.
STILL, NOTHING WAS FOUND.
THE ATTACK TOOK PLACE ANYWAY, even though the inspectors found nothing, and said
they didn't think they would, but could not understand why they couldn't finish the job.
If they had of continued looking and inspecting till the end, they would have been killed in
the invasion I suspect.
Bush didn't want to wait any longer,be cause the 'time of year' and 'weather' was just right,
and if they waited any longer it would have been too hot. Hows that for taking 'lightly',
the lives of thousands of people.
Perhaps if the u.s. bomb makers, war machine makers, jet fuel suppliers, etc., would give back their profits,
the war could be paid for, they are the winners here, the biggest loser GEORGE W. BUSH,
as, what goes round comes round, and now he has to live the rest of his life, with this on his mind, note, that I did not say conscience, as there is none. He wanted to go down in
history as one of the greatest presidents ever, now, it is the OPPOSITE forever, and that
will be read in the history books for many generations.
allow the inspectors in, and they did not find anything they were looking for.
While all of that was happening, bush was sending troops, warships, planes, and more
threats to the persian gulf, in preparation for an attack.
STILL, NOTHING WAS FOUND.
THE ATTACK TOOK PLACE ANYWAY, even though the inspectors found nothing, and said
they didn't think they would, but could not understand why they couldn't finish the job.
If they had of continued looking and inspecting till the end, they would have been killed in
the invasion I suspect.
Bush didn't want to wait any longer,be cause the 'time of year' and 'weather' was just right,
and if they waited any longer it would have been too hot. Hows that for taking 'lightly',
the lives of thousands of people.
Perhaps if the u.s. bomb makers, war machine makers, jet fuel suppliers, etc., would give back their profits,
the war could be paid for, they are the winners here, the biggest loser GEORGE W. BUSH,
as, what goes round comes round, and now he has to live the rest of his life, with this on his mind, note, that I did not say conscience, as there is none. He wanted to go down in
history as one of the greatest presidents ever, now, it is the OPPOSITE forever, and that
will be read in the history books for many generations.
The thread is about US presidents, the people you mentioned were never president of the US, unless I've been studying the wrong history books.
Well gee Walter neither are the nabobs in Israel but who do you think is encouraging their American business partners to continue in the effort to exterminate Arabs?
No one it seems likes to address the actions of the United Staes within the context of a conflict born out of the mistake made back in 1947.
Americans will continue to spill the blood of their children for the myth of a "Democratic Israel"....
Stop funding Israel and let the cards fall where they may.
No one it seems likes to address the actions of the United Staes within the context of a conflict born out of the mistake made back in 1947.
Americans will continue to spill the blood of their children for the myth of a "Democratic Israel"....
Stop funding Israel and let the cards fall where they may.
Keep in mind, the people you help are people who do not talk like you, think like you, live like you, worship like you. These people know a world whose only similarities to your own come in that it orbits the sun and the moon orbits it. Nothing you know of life applies to them. To inflict your way of life on them is as arrogant to them as forcing their way of life on you is objectionable. Remember this and you will conquer mountains, Grasshopper....
Woof!
I think you are a minority in the US with your views about Iraq. The US didn't go there to help or protect anyone, look at the country now? It's worse off then it was under Saddam.
Bush's legacy will be a crumbling economy and the mess in Iraq, not much to be proud of there.
But he didn't and he would still need a delivery system to get the nukes to New York. If you think that Iraq was an iminent threat to anybody you need to put down the glue because something is clouding your judgemnet. All anybody had to do was the watch that slight of hand stunt Powel put on at the UN to see they had flimsy evidence at best.
The safest choice? You do realise that terror groups have gotten stronger since this little stunt by the U.S. right. If anything it has gotten worse.
Forcing raped women to have kids is more important than not having illegal wars, strandedblack people in New Orleans, ruined economy, certain freedoms eradicated, torture, prison without trial, freedom of judges, CIA agents keeping their cover, ruined world stature, botched wars, Abu Garab, thousands of innocent civilians killed and maimed, thousands of U.S. troops killed and maimed for nothing, veterans treated like crap, huge deficits and ballooning debt, worthless dollar, millions without any health insurance, broken education system, Bin Laden still on the loose, etc,etc,etc.
Well, everyone one has their priorities I guess.:roll:
Yes, but the implication is that the other sides were 'the innocent' party and they
were not.
That sounds very nice, but there is a huge difference between helping people for the right
reasons, and invading their country for all the wrong reasons, with a very arrogant,
self serving attitude,with accusations that are unfounded.
He fooled the united nations, his own people, and the rest of us in the world as well,
and all the while he and his cronies knew that they had 'picked and chosen' the clauses
in intelligence that would allow them to convince the world. They were so arrogant
that they actually thought they would get away with it, that others would not delve
into the intelligence, do major studies, and work they way back to the 'time of
decision making' that changed the world, and will forever remain in the memories
of those who are interested, to pass on to others, and 'not' be duped again, by such
foul deeds, put forward by a 'president' who we now realize was not and is not, capable
of holding such a high position in government, and was put there as a front, the good
guy, the guy you would have a beer with. Never again, as I'm sure, at least hoping that
the american people are now looking harder, paying more attention, and taking seriously who they actually 'vote' for when in that polling booth.
Sounds like socialism to me.
How about if the people of Iraq are unhappy with their current leadership they get off their own asses and make changes much like the Americans did in the war of independance.
I, as a Canadian, believe that we as first world countries are no more important then any other country in the world. Whatever privileges we get from our country's status in the world should not be abused in the matter where we act as the be-all experts on how the world should be run. We as first world countries do not have the right to impose our views and beliefs onto other nations and cultures for the simple fact that we think we know best. Our 1st World Nations bacame 1st world nations by standing up to other forceful and opressive nations. By Acting the same way as those nations will counter our original goals and principles and will in the end, destroy our 1st world status.
The moment you let your own fame and hype get to you, that will be the moment of your downfall.
It is not our God-Given power to help those less fortunate, over time, we put ourselves in that position, not God. And we can help those less fortunate if they request our help. Those in Iraq did not ask for the US to invade their country, nor did I see large rallys and protests begging for you guys to take Saddam out from power.
If that was the case, then why arn't you guys trying the same stunt in Cuba? Shouldn't you guys be helping the poor suffering people in Cuba from their evil Dictator and his brother?
I personally feel all the citizens of the US are oppressed, should I muster up an invasion force to liberate everybody from Bush?
Probably not, considdering you guys like to deal with your own problems, don't like to admit you need help from allies or neighbors, and all proud of yourselves to a point where your leaders can't even admit to their own mistakes/failures, let alone the people who elected them in.
So if you guys are all uppity and pissy to the point where you guys would refuse help from anybody, what makes you think other countries who are worse off (Based on your own set standards of life to your own) would suck it up and allow you to invade their country, step foot on their homeland without them even asking, and then shoving them around, telling them how to live their lives as you guys dictate, all at the same time calling it "Democracy" (Which is ironic all on its own, seeing's how it was forced on them to live this way)
You know best when it comes to living your life... they know best when it comes to living their lives. The moment people stop trying to dictate to other people how to live their lives, the better we'd all be off.
Live as an example, don't make examples.
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Um... who apointed you guys the World Police again? You may feel you have a duty to protect people, but that feeling is not reality. You are not helping someone if you butt in when they don't ask or need your help.... you're then becoming an annoying pest.
If you wanted to protect the people of Iraq, then you shouldn't have listened to your president, you should have looked harder into the evidence provided, you shouldn't have allowed emotional appeal to affect your judgement from 9/11 and you guys shouldn't have invaded Iraq period.
You claim Americans feel they have a duty to protect Iraqis..... well who's going to protect them from your protection? We've all seen what that protection has brought their country. Absolute Hell.
Fair enough, and do not take my views personally. It is the above mentality of needing to protect and interfere with the matters of other nations that has cause everything we are living through today to exist.
It is not the US's place, Canada's, the UK's or any other nation's place to jump into another country and force them to think the way we do, rip their government out of power when they have not attacked us, and try and turn their entire culture upside down to confirm and assimilate to our way of life, Just to make things easier, which has proven to make things worse. Doing this makes us no better then the people we're told are "Evil Doers."