Iraq-Vietnam comparison inevitable

[mattyaloo]

oh---and those "dirty little plans" for world democracy. what a horrible thought.

In what friggin' world would it be acceptable to force, by strength of arms, any system of government on a people? Certainly not this one, as Bush is finding more and more every day...

Saddam forced his government on his people. Bush removed the dictator, the Iraqi people voted in an election and chose their own government.

"Those poor Iraqis, being forced to lose their dictator and live in a democracy!" what you lefties smokin' today?

 

[mattyaloo]

gee I thought lefties didn't like placing generic labels on large groups of people. I guess when it suits you its ok

not really...... just that sometimes one has to resort to a language the right wing fanatics understand. They don't seem to do very well in conceptual /abstract thought. :wink:

there you go again

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Where should we start?

:wink: umm......with diagrams , graphs, and graphics???

 

[mattyaloo]

1. Please let me know which of Saddam's human rights has been violated?

BBC News{/url]

2. It was about Oil, Terrorism and a much more important long term goal of gaining a strong presence in the middle east to help them civilize, get real court systems and democratic institutions. Sure, darlin' it was about all of the above. You lefties think you've uncovered some big secret. Everyone knows the US has longterm geopoliticl goals in the middle east. Check out this site and read the mission statement. This was written and signed by Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, Dan Quayle, DIck CHeney etc. in 1997,long before 9-11. It's no big secret.

[url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Yes, I'm a frequent visitor to the PNAC site...I know of their dirty little plans for world conquest...

3. SO what if Saddam was propped up by the US. Iran was the issue back then. We were on the same side as Russia until hitler fell.

The US was kissing Saddam in the ear while he was gassing Kurds...and then blamed the whole thing on Iran...

4. Dubya has less than half the domestic power that our own PM does so who is the dictator? But yes, the USpresident does carry alot of international power....and yes, dubya is a global threat to dictators and terrorists. that bastard!

It's not his domestic power that is at issue here, although he has taken several liberties since 2000, it's the fact that he called the world to join him in avenging 9/11 and ridding the world of terrorism, and then when the world agreed, he puts a long conceived plan to attack Iraq into motion, and acts all pouty because the world decided to sit that one out...it's been mentioned several times by Conservative pundits on this board that that is the reason that softwood lumber and BSE have not yet been resolved...it seems he has more clout in our country than he has in his own...

His foreign policy (read imperialistic crusade), is causing untold damage in the ME, with his greedy oil grabbing exploits...and his continued support of Israel and their systematic extermination of the Palestinian people begs the question...is a tyrant any less tyrranical for being democratically elected?

You haven't cited evidence of anything. Your "responses" are certainly not answers, they are leftist ramblings. Let's see even on kernel of evidence for your myriad accusations.

Where should we start?

How about here:

"His foreign policy (read imperialistic crusade), is causing untold damage in the ME, with his greedy oil grabbing exploits...and his continued support of Israel and their systematic extermination of the Palestinian people"

OK...I'd like the evidence of all of the above please...to start

 

[Ocean Breeze]

there you go again

tit for tat :wink:

now .......what was the topic again?? :wink:


something about Viet Nam???

( hard to forget the atrocities that took place then :twisted:

 

[Ocean Breeze]

oh---and those "dirty little plans" for world democracy. what a horrible thought.

In what friggin' world would it be acceptable to force, by strength of arms, any system of government on a people? Certainly not this one, as Bush is finding more and more every day...

Vanni: that was a typographical error ...........meant to read:

"dirty little plans for World DOMINATION. What a horrible thought."

I guess he thinks it is just fine for a "ruthless "nation .....(which the US is becoming ) to kill, invade, imprison ,torture in order to dominate the world .


(good posting Vinni- cheers.)

 

[mattyaloo]

oh---and those "dirty little plans" for world democracy. what a horrible thought.

In what friggin' world would it be acceptable to force, by strength of arms, any system of government on a people? Certainly not this one, as Bush is finding more and more every day...

Vanni: that was a typographical error ...........meant to read:

"dirty little plans for World DOMINATION. What a horrible thought."

I guess he thinks it is just fine for a "ruthless "nation .....(which the US is becoming ) to kill, invade, imprison ,torture in order to dominate the world .


(good posting Vinni- cheers.)

Yea, great posting if you choose to ignore fact in favor of an ideological hate-on for GW Bush.

Since Bush invaded Iraq we've seen women's rights in Saudi, Libya give up it's weapons programs, Syria pull out of a 20 year Lebanon occupation and Egypt move toward democracy. Gosh, wouldn't it be somethin' if dumb little ol' GW Bush actually had more world vision than the ivory tower lefties who criticize him? Seems to be panning out that way so far...But keep it up you guys are amuzing

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Saddam forced his government on his people. Bush removed the dictator, the Iraqi people voted in an election and chose their own government.

Parroting the bush regime is not going to win many points . Taken from the bible of bush, chapter and verse.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Since Bush invaded Iraq we've seen women's rights in Saudi, Libya give up it's weapons programs, Syria pull out of a 20 year Lebanon occupation and Egypt move toward democracy. Gosh, wouldn't it be somethin' if dumb little ol' GW Bush actually had more world vision than the ivory tower lefties who criticize him? Seems to be panning out that way so far...But keep it up you guys are amuzing

Have you pronouced him Saint yet??

 

[moghrabi]

Since Bush invaded Iraq we've seen women's rights in Saudi, Libya give up it's weapons programs, Syria pull out of a 20 year Lebanon occupation and Egypt move toward democracy. Gosh, wouldn't it be somethin' if dumb little ol' GW Bush actually had more world vision than the ivory tower lefties who criticize him? Seems to be panning out that way so far...But keep it up you guys are amuzing

None is further from the truth. There was no change in Saudi Arabia, Libya gave empty shells to get him off their back, Syria went out of Lebanon after the US killed the prime minister and blamed it on Syria.

Do more research please

 

[Ocean Breeze]

consistent in that belief

What belief?? you asked a question, I answered . If you chose to play games with bait .....that it your thing.

Many of us assess each situation on an individual basis and do NOT use the "one belief fits all".

In fact the word belief and logic don't fit in the same sentence.


This whole area has nothing to do with "belief"....

It has to do with grave issues that the US G must be accountable for at some point. But give the latitude it takes with accountablility .........there is no guarantee of that one.

 

[mattyaloo]

Since Bush invaded Iraq we've seen women's rights in Saudi, Libya give up it's weapons programs, Syria pull out of a 20 year Lebanon occupation and Egypt move toward democracy. Gosh, wouldn't it be somethin' if dumb little ol' GW Bush actually had more world vision than the ivory tower lefties who criticize him? Seems to be panning out that way so far...But keep it up you guys are amuzing

Have you pronouced him Saint yet??

Why is everyone on here so Binary? It's not a hockey game, you don't have to pick a side and cheer for it you know. I have merely suggested that Bush's policies are bold and may end up making you all look a little foolish in ten years. I remember how everyone in Canada in the '80s thought Reagan was a wingnut, but history was much kinder to him as he ended up toppling the berlin wall.

I am no idiot: Bush has his faults. I believe they may have ruished to war. But nobody knows how to win the war on terrorism. Nobody, so you can't say he's wrong. The explicit reasons for regime change may have been weak, but we all know that the middle east is all connected in some way. If Iraq has nothing to do with Terrorism, then why are they all getting so pissed off and cutting people's heads off on camera? Obviously Bush has ruffled some serious terrorist feathers.
I amsimply asking you people to take a less biased view.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

"His foreign policy (read imperialistic crusade), is causing untold damage in the ME, with his greedy oil grabbing exploits...and his continued support of Israel and their systematic extermination of the Palestinian people"

OK...I'd like the evidence of all of the above please...to start

War for Oil:

Washington Post

BUSH'S DEEP REASONS FOR WAR ON IRAQ

Downing Street Memo

The Downing St. memo proves that neither Bush, nor Blair, intended a diplomatic solution to the problems in Iraq...and yet they had to do whatever necessary to get troops on the ground...can you guess the reason why, Matty?

Damaging Stability in ME:

US Threatens Syria

I wonder why the US hasn't threatened strikes against Israel's nuclear sites

US Says Iran Nukes Threaten ME Allies

Which allies are those I wonder?

Israel extermination of Palestinians:

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/hitlerinisrael.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4222595.stm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2342

Now Matty, why on Earth would the IDF do something so stupid as to shoot a little girl, and place ceasefire agreement in Gaza in jeopardy?

Ok...I'm tired of doing your research for you...learn to use Google, or shut the hell up...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I remember how everyone in Canada in the '80s thought Reagan was a wingnut...

Some of us still do...

 

[mattyaloo]

consistent in that belief

What belief?? you asked a question, I answered . If you chose to play games with bait .....that it your thing.

Many of us assess each situation on an individual basis and do NOT use the one belief fits all.

In fact the word belief and logic don't fit in the same sentence.

Yes they do, you just used 'em in one.

You stated that Bush is an asshole for rushing in and changing regime instead of letting the people rise up. You stated that countries should look after their own regime change. -- that "belief".

Did you mean what you said? If you did, then consistency you must also think Chretien an asshole for afgh. got it now?

 

[mattyaloo]

"His foreign policy (read imperialistic crusade), is causing untold damage in the ME, with his greedy oil grabbing exploits...and his continued support of Israel and their systematic extermination of the Palestinian people"

OK...I'd like the evidence of all of the above please...to start

War for Oil:

Washington Post

BUSH'S DEEP REASONS FOR WAR ON IRAQ

Downing Street Memo

The Downing St. memo proves that neither Bush, nor Blair, intended a diplomatic solution to the problems in Iraq...and yet they had to do whatever necessary to get troops on the ground...can you guess the reason why, Matty?

Damaging Stability in ME:

US Threatens Syria

I wonder why the US hasn't threatened strikes against Israel's nuclear sites

US Says Iran Nukes Threaten ME Allies

Which allies are those I wonder?

Israel extermination of Palestinians:

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/hitlerinisrael.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4222595.stm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2342

Now Matty, why on Earth would the IDF do something so stupid as to shoot a little girl, and place ceasefire agreement in Gaza in jeopardy?

Ok...I'm tired of doing your research for you...learn to use Google, or shut the hell up...

lol. None of that is fresh info dear. Nice try though. My fav was the Washinton Post. Now there's an ubiased source. They should all party with the Toronto Star at Ed Broadbent's place.

Nice try though. Sorry to put you to all that work rummaging around the internet trying to somehow "prove" that Bush is a wingnut...lol your rhetoric is amusing though.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

If Iraq has nothing to do with Terrorism, then why are they all getting so pissed off and cutting people's heads off on camera?

the BUSH INVASION, destabilized Iraq. Terrorists gravitated into a destabilized region as could have been predicted. The kidnappings /beheadings are the result of the destabilized enviroment , lawlessness, chaos etc. In fact the invasion FOSTERED terrorism.

Here again......the planners for the invasion did not take into account all the "what if" scenarios.

"war" on terrorism is a euphamism similar to "war" on drugs. The US loves the word war. and uses it liberally.

Military action is not the solution to terrorism; Many on this planet told the US that.........but of course the US "knows better" than many other nations that have dealt with terrorism before.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

your rhetoric is amusing though.

ummm. You are the only one that is laughing. :roll:

 

[mattyaloo]

"His foreign policy (read imperialistic crusade), is causing untold damage in the ME, with his greedy oil grabbing exploits...and his continued support of Israel and their systematic extermination of the Palestinian people"

OK...I'd like the evidence of all of the above please...to start

War for Oil:

Washington Post

BUSH'S DEEP REASONS FOR WAR ON IRAQ

Downing Street Memo

The Downing St. memo proves that neither Bush, nor Blair, intended a diplomatic solution to the problems in Iraq...and yet they had to do whatever necessary to get troops on the ground...can you guess the reason why, Matty?

Damaging Stability in ME:

US Threatens Syria

I wonder why the US hasn't threatened strikes against Israel's nuclear sites

US Says Iran Nukes Threaten ME Allies

Which allies are those I wonder?

Israel extermination of Palestinians:

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/hitlerinisrael.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4222595.stm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2342

Now Matty, why on Earth would the IDF do something so stupid as to shoot a little girl, and place ceasefire agreement in Gaza in jeopardy?

Ok...I'm tired of doing your research for you...learn to use Google, or shut the hell up...

lol. None of that is fresh info dear. Nice try though. My fav was the Washinton Post. Now there's an ubiased source. They should all party with the Toronto Star at Ed Broadbent's place.

Nice try though. Sorry to put you to all that work rummaging around the internet trying to somehow "prove" that Bush is a wingnut...lol your rhetoric is amusing though.

p.s. find me some unbiased empirical evidence instead of your lefty think tanks and the washinton post lol. Oh, and the one "unbiased" source: BBC. Yes, I am sure a girl being shot constitutes "systematic extermination" on your planet, but not here on earth. 5,000 Kurds gassed by nervegas by their own leader, now that might constitute extermination...lol you're fun Vanni

 

[mattyaloo]

If Iraq has nothing to do with Terrorism, then why are they all getting so pissed off and cutting people's heads off on camera?

the BUSH INVASION, destabilized Iraq. Terrorists gravitated into a destabilized region as could have been predicted. The kidnappings /beheadings are the result of the destabilized enviroment , lawlessness, chaos etc. In fact the invasion FOSTERED terrorism.

Here again......the planners for the invasion did not take into account all the "what if" scenarios.

"war" on terrorism is a euphamism similar to "war" on drugs. The US loves the word war. and uses it liberally.

Military action is not the solution to terrorism; Many on this planet told the US that.........but of course the US "knows better" than many other nations that have dealt with terrorism before.