Iraq-Vietnam comparison inevitable

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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For all the links you post (none of which tally up the death by the "other" side), it seems you have all the reason in the world as "they" do to wear a bomb vest.

Yet you just simply say YOU don't believe in violence.

Why are all your posted links silent about whether others should choose the same approach as you did?

Why not make it a habit of reading stories like the one below? You've certainly have enough knowlege of the American evil. You've graduated Moghrabi.

Perhaps you should read more of what you don't post about:

Suicide Bombing Leaves 24 Dead in Northern Iraq
Blast at Bank Kills Children, Retirees; 3 U.S. Soldiers Die in Separate Attacks

By Andy Mosher and Marwan Ani
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, June 15, 2005; Page A18

BAGHDAD, June 14 -- A man standing in a line of people waiting for government paychecks in northern Iraq detonated a bomb strapped to his waist Tuesday, killing himself and at least 23 others, many of them retirees and children selling wares in a nearby market.

How about that Ocean Breeze ?




The devastating blast in Kirkuk wounded more than 80 people and left surrounding streets "full of blood of the wounded and killed," one survivor, Nawzad Omar, 50, said later at a local hospital.



Youth gather to look at the wreckage of a vehicle following a car bomb in the northeastern city of Baquba 14 June 2005. Ten Iraqis, including two children, were killed and seven wounded early today by a car bomb north of Baghdad, according to security and hospital sources. (Ali Yussef - AFP)



News From Iraq
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The Ansar al-Sunna Army, one of the most violent insurgent groups in Iraq, asserted responsibility for the bombing, the Associated Press reported.

South of Kirkuk, in the town of Kenaan, a suicide car bomber killed five Iraqi soldiers at a road checkpoint, and a mortar attack left the town's police station in flames, the AP reported. And in Habbaniya in western Anbar province police said they had discovered 24 bodies dumped in two separate areas.

The U.S. military, meanwhile, reported that two soldiers attached to a Marine unit were killed Monday near the western city of Ramadi when an explosive device struck their vehicle. Also, a roadside bombing killed a U.S. soldier Tuesday on Baghdad's south side.

Kirkuk, an oil-rich city about 150 miles north of Baghdad, is home to a mix of ethnic Arabs, Kurds and Turkmens and has been the scene of frequent violence in the past two years. Under Saddam Hussein's rule, the Iraqi government expelled Kurds by the thousands and re-populated the city with Arabs. But with Hussein's ouster in April 2003 and the strong showing of Kurdish parties in national elections this year, Kurds have returned to Kirkuk and are seeking to make it the capital of an autonomous northern region.

Kirkuk's police chief, Maj. Gen. Torhan Yousif, said the bomber was carrying more than 100 pounds of explosives when he joined a line at the government-run Rafidain Bank. When he detonated the device, the explosion killed and wounded civilians, police officers and employees of local political parties. It also severely damaged the bank building and surrounding shops.

The AP reported that children and street vendors selling products including sugar and kitchen utensils were among those killed, according to Capt. Salam Zangana, an official at the hospital where the victims were being brought.

"Enough killing and terrorism, enough bloodshed," cried a woman who identified herself as Umm Khalid and was looking for her son, a newspaper vendor. "We became tired and we want for God to help the Iraqi people."

Yousif said the bank and the line outside was heavily guarded, but that the bomber had somehow skirted the security. "This is considered a major security flaw, for which all the security plans should be looked over again," he said.

A recent succession of grisly discoveries by Iraqi authorities continued Monday when police discovered 17 bodies 80 miles west of Baghdad and another seven near Hit, about 95 northwest of the capital. None was immediately identified.

Four of the 17 bodies found by Iraqi soldiers had been beheaded, according to Abdul Munim Ahmed, a physician at a hospital in nearby Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province.

In Hit, the head of the local hospital, Ahmed Jarrallah, said two of the seven bodies discovered there were women, and both had been beheaded. A statement posted at a mosque in Hit asserted that the seven had been killed by members of the Ansar al-Sunna Army. The statement called the victims "traitors" who had "been helping the occupier fight the holy warriors" by working as private contractors who supplied cement.

Iraq's government announced Tuesday that security forces had captured a man who built explosive devices for roadside explosives and car bombs.

Jassim Hazan Hamadi Bazi, also known as Abu Ahmed, was described in a government statement as a key member of an al Qaeda cell who crafted and sold bombs at an electronics repair shop in Balad. Bazi was apprehended on June 7, the statement said.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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I read them all. They way I see it is as long as the Americans are there, more of this is going to happen. This invasion created an atmosphere for Iraqis and others to settle a score. They will do anything to keep you from stealing their oil, forcing your way of life down their throat, installing another puppet goveerment to suit your needs.

I hope that you look at how your governement and the governement of Isreal is treating Arabs. No wonder they wear belts. That's their only weapon so far.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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mog: if I may. People like "Jim" don't understand concepts. To them it is following the bush doctrine of "with us or against us".......simplistic as it is . There is no conceptual framework in something like with us or against us. It is black and white. to them.

"they " will never comprehend that many would feel some inner satisfaction at the US getting its come up-pence. ......while feeling a tragic sorry for the victims. This is totally out of their frame of reference /thought.

They simply fail to see , that the US has been dissing the rest of the world off for some time now. The US plays games. It plays one nation against another. It plays favorites. NO ONE Likes this kind of malignant game player . Why?? Because no one knows where they stand with a game player. Today the US is a buddy.....tomorrow one is US "enemy" worthy of a pack of lies in order to attack. Ya see, the other core issue is that no one can TRUST the US. The US has been known to turn on a nation for minimal cause. ( and usually when said nation says "no" to the US) sadly the US is extremely immature. It is like a teenager......who's body /muscle has grown faster than its brain, emotional control and wisdom. And just like any teenager.....they will NOT Listen to anyone........so they have to learn from their own mistakes. And if they fall on their face a few times.....they might get it.----and start evolving into a level of maturity where others can actually talk to them in a reasonable fashion.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Iraq-Vietnam comparison inevitable

moghrabi said:
It is not really a flip-flop. People have felt sorrow and pain for the victims and their families but joy that America as a nation was hit. It tasted some of its poison. It tasted what it had been doing to a lot of nations either directly or by installing puppets to do it on its behalf.

I doubt sorrow and joy was felt at the same time, very few people can make that emotional distinction, let alone millions around the world. It doesn't happen. Yes the media showed Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. I don't blame the Palestinians for their reactions, it has an element of truth.
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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Ocean Breeze said:
mog: if I may. People like "Jim" don't understand concepts. To them it is following the bush doctrine of "with us or against us".......simplistic as it is . There is no conceptual framework in something like with us or against us. It is black and white. to them.

"they " will never comprehend that many would feel some inner satisfaction at the US getting its come up-pence. ......while feeling a tragic sorry for the victims. This is totally out of their frame of reference /thought.

They simply fail to see , that the US has been dissing the rest of the world off for some time now. The US plays games. It plays one nation against another. It plays favorites. NO ONE Likes this kind of malignant game player . Why?? Because no one knows where they stand with a game player. Today the US is a buddy.....tomorrow one is US "enemy" worthy of a pack of lies in order to attack. Ya see, the other core issue is that no one can TRUST the US. The US has been known to turn on a nation for minimal cause. ( and usually when said nation says "no" to the US) sadly the US is extremely immature. It is like a teenager......who's body /muscle has grown faster than its brain, emotional control and wisdom. And just like any teenager.....they will NOT Listen to anyone........so they have to learn from their own mistakes. And if they fall on their face a few times.....they might get it.----and start evolving into a level of maturity where others can actually talk to them in a reasonable fashion.

Thanks Ocean. Did you get that Jim? Exactly what I was saying except he said more politely. :wink:
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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Re: RE: Iraq-Vietnam comparison inevitable

I think not said:
moghrabi said:
It is not really a flip-flop. People have felt sorrow and pain for the victims and their families but joy that America as a nation was hit. It tasted some of its poison. It tasted what it had been doing to a lot of nations either directly or by installing puppets to do it on its behalf.

I doubt sorrow and joy was felt at the same time, very few people can make that emotional distinction, let alone millions around the world. It doesn't happen. Yes the media showed Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. I don't blame the Palestinians for their reactions, it has an element of truth.

Read Ocean's response.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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Ocean Breeze said:
mog: if I may. People like "Jim" don't understand concepts. To them it is following the bush doctrine of "with us or against us".......simplistic as it is . There is no conceptual framework in something like with us or against us. It is black and white. to them.

"they " will never comprehend that many would feel some inner satisfaction at the US getting its come up-pence. ......while feeling a tragic sorry for the victims. This is totally out of their frame of reference /thought.

They simply fail to see , that the US has been dissing the rest of the world off for some time now. The US plays games. It plays one nation against another. It plays favorites. NO ONE Likes this kind of malignant game player . Why?? Because no one knows where they stand with a game player. Today the US is a buddy.....tomorrow one is US "enemy" worthy of a pack of lies in order to attack. Ya see, the other core issue is that no one can TRUST the US. The US has been known to turn on a nation for minimal cause. ( and usually when said nation says "no" to the US) sadly the US is extremely immature. It is like a teenager......who's body /muscle has grown faster than its brain, emotional control and wisdom. And just like any teenager.....they will NOT Listen to anyone........so they have to learn from their own mistakes. And if they fall on their face a few times.....they might get it.----and start evolving into a level of maturity where others can actually talk to them in a reasonable fashion.

Whether or not you choose to admit it Ocean, you allow your bias against the US(G) to trickle down to its citizens.

Your claims that the US(G) has turned against nations for minimal cause is ridiculous. What may be perceived as a mininal cause by you doesn't necessarily mean it is so. You often paint the picture of black and white when referring to the US yourself. The world isn't black and white.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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First, Moghrabi, I want to thank you for not wiggling out of the questions and you answered them directly without a lot of noise and fireworks.

Secondly, Ocean Breeze, we are discussing a horror begun by the original sin of American policy, done by the original sin of Saddam, compounded by the sin of others in the name of some worthy cause, for which you and Moghrabi would not do in your own personal lives.

And you know as well as I do, that if the terrorists would stop right now, people could begin a new life and we will sort out who is controlling who after that.

As you know there's a lot of control freaks in peacetime as well as in war as well as in occupation.

So this issue of who is controlling you, and the broadened definition of imperialism is starting to sound a little shallow looking at the suicide bomb belt turning children into a pool of blood.

Y'all don't sound so noble anymore.


Think about it.

Shoot yourself in the foot for a good cause?

I don't think so.