Iraq-Vietnam comparison inevitable

[Ocean Breeze]

Actually, logic would suggest that if you don't like "externally forced regime change (IRAQ)", as you stated then you would not have favored the Afghan invasion.

that is not logic.........that is simplistic generalization.

anyhow, matty, gotta admit , that you remind me of the discussion board I just left. Patronizing, diversional tactics, baiting games condescending and arrogant. And sweetie, those were the "good "points. So a true discussion was not possible.

Some objectivity is called for and some serious honesty with oneself.

You want to support bush so blindly.......go ahead. You want to believe this is about democracy ,freedom in the ME .....go ahead.

I have held the US to a much higher standard ....(my mistake)...than those nations in the ME. I saw them as still locked in an era that was not progressing forward. In time they would have had to. That is the nature of things. Reality is that people will resist change anyhow......and particularly change that is forced on them. That is a human factor. .......Now if the population was ready for change.....it would endeavor to take the steps to fascilitate it.

Hope the ME will enjoy being controlled by the US.( :roll: But the US might be in for a bloody battle to achive their imperial goals.

NOw, IF the US had held its focus and continued to deal with terrorism effectively, intelligently there might have been more progress by now. Diverting into Iraq the way it did.....only potentiated more terrorism and the focus was lost.

When the dust settles , the truth will come out.....it always does.

Hey, you said it not me: regime change should come fromwithin. Then you changed your mind when I brought up Canada's role in Afghan. Logic, dear, says that you have a double standard. Try to keep consistent. It's not a game, it's what YOU said. If you'd keep on message I wouldn't have to point out the obvious logical fallacy in your argument and elicit the personal attacks you to which you have resorted. I don't support Bush blindly, you are against him blindly.

You must know Paul Martin as you continue to make and repeat statements that are complete at odds with reality.

nice try matty, no cigar. and please do try to stay on the topic. If I want an analysis ......I will go to a shrink. )

( regrets to all posters here , as I allowed this to divert , from the topic and got a tad caught up in some silliness. ....

 

[mattyaloo]

johnny : bravo. good post.

and you bring up a very important factor. The culture factor , the history of the region etc. It is presumptuous to think that we here in N.America really know what they think, how they think, what their priorities are etc.......Not sure anyone can even describe their lifestyle... It is so vastly different from ours.

This lack of understanding is a big part of the problem.

The problem is that muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes into high profile targets in the most powerul military country the world has ever seen and now we're all wondering what the US is doing in the middle east...

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me.

take a clue from that .

no one appointed you firechief. :roll:

 

[johnnybgoodaaaaa]

we are workingtoward long term

So what exactly is the "long term " objective??? ( and please be kind enough to spare us the bush rhetoric. No one (in their right mind) believes him anyhow. And why was this long term objective not spelled out so the world could be clear on it?? In fact why wasn't the short term objective spelled out, so we all could be clear on it.

thank you.

They are going to systematically change the poltical landscape in the middle east. It's too long to get into it, but suffice it to say the current landscape is conducive to terrorism. When people don't have rights, when they lose a sense of ownership in their country, they turn to groups like Al Qaeda. It's likecults in our society. It's no coincidence most Al Qaeda's are marginalized mid twenties men. Anyway, Iran could be next, but the US will not stop util that region is stabilized, and yes, it may be ugly in the interim. That is what I think. As to why they haven;t been clear, you'd have to ask them that question.

Hmm, how sure are you that most of Al Qaeda is "marginalized mid-twenties men"? Just because you think something doesn't mean that it will come true. Of course, give it ten years, more people dead, and maybe you will come around. It's funny that you think that the landscape of the middle east will change with the most hated nation(the Unied States)in that region invading countries and pushing influence. I always thought that our influence in that region is what has caused us to have enemies. I think there was some guy who wrote a book recently about terrorism and how alot of terrorist are actually educated people, working people who commit terrorist acts to get people off thier land, not naive 20 yr olds. While it's true that some probably are 20, from the video I've seen on the net of captured insurgents, alot look in thier 30's, maybe older. I think the problem you are running into is that you are completely ignoring the culture in the middle east and how people's view of the world might be. In the US, talk of rights, democracy, and so on is common place, but in the middle east the view might be different with people on how things should be run. Even the view of the US and thier motives could be completely off. I mean, if a country(let's say mexico for example)had a way better military than the US, and attacked us to impose what they viewed as the right way to live, how would you feel?

Alot of this "change the political landscape" in the middle east sounds an aweful lot like the talk that happened during the Cold War. While the US did actually win the cold war by lasting longer than Russia, this is a war on ideology, and the sad thing is that the US has not made themselves look good with things like the abuse scandels, illegal invasion, civilian deaths, and overall threatening the world. While the US does seem to try diplomacy in some ways, they still threaten nations and push thier wieght(which can be expected being a superpower). The thing about it is, that in pushing thier wieght and doing as they please, they push people further from them and further from wanting to believe in them and trusting them as the "good guy." It's been some years now, and there's still attacks everyday. What makes you think that they will stop and everything will suddenly be so peachy and nice? people cross the border into Iraq to fight, and they did the same thing in Afghanistan. I don't really know what to believe in much anymore, but I do know that the US government screwed up by not finding WMD(when Rumsfeld went on about "they are uhhh duuhhh somewhere around Tikrit, and we will get them," and his other bullcrap lines) First off, HE TOLD US THEY WERE THERE, and then made it sound like they were most certainly there and we just had to do some fighting to get them. It was all bullcrap just like this war. If you have an open-mind(I realise the guy is biased and you shouldn't take everything just as he says -- look it up yourself, because he does conspiracy theories)go to www.infowars.net and check out Alex Jones movie "Martial Law - 911 Rise of the Police State." I doubt you will check it out because you seem like one of those guys that only wants to hear one side and dismisses anything that opposes it, but it's a documentary that is way better than michael moores(he makes fun of michael moore in it I think)and the guy pulls up news articles everywhere. He was re-running an episode that he had on local access here in Texas that was from july 2001 when he was talking about news about terrorist flying planes into the world trade center -- at least I think I remember seeing something about. Rant done.

Try to be shorter I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me. Yet you guys are the independant thinkers eh? lol. Listen. I have read countless books on Al Qaeda, and watched a very revealing hidden camera documentary on "The Passionate Eye", hardly a Bush Friendly program. Terrorists are a combination of the marginalized and the militant religious. Contary to popular belief their desire to kill us has little to do with foreign policy.

And stop predicting the future, you have no idea what the next ten years will hold and whether bush will come out looking good...

I don't remember claiming that I was a huge independent thinker? Was that suppose to be a put down? That's kind of lame that you are insecure and need to try to attack people as not being independent thinkers. I don't really see how you can be a huge independent thinker when it comes to these matters because you either agree with the war, don't agree, or don't really care.

 

[mattyaloo]

I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me.

take a clue from that .

no one appointed you firechief. :roll:

If you;re implying that I should "get on board" with the consensus view that's really weak. It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right. And that the the common wisdom of lefies has historically been almost 100% proven wrong.

 

[johnnybgoodaaaaa]

johnny : bravo. good post.

and you bring up a very important factor. The culture factor , the history of the region etc. It is presumptuous to think that we here in N.America really know what they think, how they think, what their priorities are etc.......Not sure anyone can even describe their lifestyle... It is so vastly different from ours.

This lack of understanding is a big part of the problem.

The problem is that muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes into high profile targets in the most powerul military country the world has ever seen and now we're all wondering what the US is doing in the middle east...

Yes, but why did they hit the towers? Are you trying to tell everyone that for once the cause and effect principle has completely failed, and some guys just woke up one day, said "death to America" and flew planes into the two towers? That just doesn't seem to add up. Why did they fly the planes into the twin towers and not any buildings in Brazil? Why the twin towers and not any other country in the world? I can agree with Afghanistan because it was filled with terrorist camps(which could be a product of US policies, which often create resentment and make it easy to gather followers). When the US bombs and kills people's families, I don't see how those people see thier loved ones as collatoral damage like the US soldiers do. When you do these things, and people who relate culturewise see it, it would, logically, create some sort of resentment. I mean, why do they hate America? There's plenty of other nations who are more liberal and have what could be viewed as "bad" morals and values to muslim fanatics, yet they just go after the US.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The problem is that Muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes

we might try to get out of the "Muslim" fixation and just call them terrorists. No need to inflame the Muslim world any more than the US (you ) have.

Has anyone truly addressed the reason for this attack. Maybe their motive was to incite war in the ME. Maybe they understood very well, how the US would react. Maybe it was revenge for something the US has done in the ME.

getting an understanding of the motives is imperative.--otherwise it is just shooting from the hip , while the terrorist groups get more satisfaction at the upheaval they have caused.

 

[mattyaloo]

we are workingtoward long term

So what exactly is the "long term " objective??? ( and please be kind enough to spare us the bush rhetoric. No one (in their right mind) believes him anyhow. And why was this long term objective not spelled out so the world could be clear on it?? In fact why wasn't the short term objective spelled out, so we all could be clear on it.

thank you.

They are going to systematically change the poltical landscape in the middle east. It's too long to get into it, but suffice it to say the current landscape is conducive to terrorism. When people don't have rights, when they lose a sense of ownership in their country, they turn to groups like Al Qaeda. It's likecults in our society. It's no coincidence most Al Qaeda's are marginalized mid twenties men. Anyway, Iran could be next, but the US will not stop util that region is stabilized, and yes, it may be ugly in the interim. That is what I think. As to why they haven;t been clear, you'd have to ask them that question.

Hmm, how sure are you that most of Al Qaeda is "marginalized mid-twenties men"? Just because you think something doesn't mean that it will come true. Of course, give it ten years, more people dead, and maybe you will come around. It's funny that you think that the landscape of the middle east will change with the most hated nation(the Unied States)in that region invading countries and pushing influence. I always thought that our influence in that region is what has caused us to have enemies. I think there was some guy who wrote a book recently about terrorism and how alot of terrorist are actually educated people, working people who commit terrorist acts to get people off thier land, not naive 20 yr olds. While it's true that some probably are 20, from the video I've seen on the net of captured insurgents, alot look in thier 30's, maybe older. I think the problem you are running into is that you are completely ignoring the culture in the middle east and how people's view of the world might be. In the US, talk of rights, democracy, and so on is common place, but in the middle east the view might be different with people on how things should be run. Even the view of the US and thier motives could be completely off. I mean, if a country(let's say mexico for example)had a way better military than the US, and attacked us to impose what they viewed as the right way to live, how would you feel?

Alot of this "change the political landscape" in the middle east sounds an aweful lot like the talk that happened during the Cold War. While the US did actually win the cold war by lasting longer than Russia, this is a war on ideology, and the sad thing is that the US has not made themselves look good with things like the abuse scandels, illegal invasion, civilian deaths, and overall threatening the world. While the US does seem to try diplomacy in some ways, they still threaten nations and push thier wieght(which can be expected being a superpower). The thing about it is, that in pushing thier wieght and doing as they please, they push people further from them and further from wanting to believe in them and trusting them as the "good guy." It's been some years now, and there's still attacks everyday. What makes you think that they will stop and everything will suddenly be so peachy and nice? people cross the border into Iraq to fight, and they did the same thing in Afghanistan. I don't really know what to believe in much anymore, but I do know that the US government screwed up by not finding WMD(when Rumsfeld went on about "they are uhhh duuhhh somewhere around Tikrit, and we will get them," and his other bullcrap lines) First off, HE TOLD US THEY WERE THERE, and then made it sound like they were most certainly there and we just had to do some fighting to get them. It was all bullcrap just like this war. If you have an open-mind(I realise the guy is biased and you shouldn't take everything just as he says -- look it up yourself, because he does conspiracy theories)go to www.infowars.net and check out Alex Jones movie "Martial Law - 911 Rise of the Police State." I doubt you will check it out because you seem like one of those guys that only wants to hear one side and dismisses anything that opposes it, but it's a documentary that is way better than michael moores(he makes fun of michael moore in it I think)and the guy pulls up news articles everywhere. He was re-running an episode that he had on local access here in Texas that was from july 2001 when he was talking about news about terrorist flying planes into the world trade center -- at least I think I remember seeing something about. Rant done.

Try to be shorter I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me. Yet you guys are the independant thinkers eh? lol. Listen. I have read countless books on Al Qaeda, and watched a very revealing hidden camera documentary on "The Passionate Eye", hardly a Bush Friendly program. Terrorists are a combination of the marginalized and the militant religious. Contary to popular belief their desire to kill us has little to do with foreign policy.

And stop predicting the future, you have no idea what the next ten years will hold and whether bush will come out looking good...

I don't remember claiming that I was a huge independent thinker? Was that suppose to be a put down? That's kind of lame that you are insecure and need to try to attack people as not being independent thinkers. I don't really see how you can be a huge independent thinker when it comes to these matters because you either agree with the war, don't agree, or don't really care.

Tru dat. Sorry, bit of a straw man fallacy on my last post. I have come across alot of anit-war lefties (I am not implying you are one) who regurgitate Toronto Star b

 

[moghrabi]

johnny : bravo. good post.

and you bring up a very important factor. The culture factor , the history of the region etc. It is presumptuous to think that we here in N.America really know what they think, how they think, what their priorities are etc.......Not sure anyone can even describe their lifestyle... It is so vastly different from ours.

This lack of understanding is a big part of the problem.

It will take the US 5000 years to understand the mind set of the middle east. It is based on different factors than north America. It is tribal, familial. People will come from somewhere else to defend and help. That is how it is there. A man can't stand seeing his wife or daughter being searched. He gets angry, hateful and frustrated. In North America (with all due respect) the boyfriend ask the father that I'll have your daughter on time by ten after I finish with her. it is so normal here yet it is abhors there.

 

[mattyaloo]

we are workingtoward long term

So what exactly is the "long term " objective??? ( and please be kind enough to spare us the bush rhetoric. No one (in their right mind) believes him anyhow. And why was this long term objective not spelled out so the world could be clear on it?? In fact why wasn't the short term objective spelled out, so we all could be clear on it.

thank you.

They are going to systematically change the poltical landscape in the middle east. It's too long to get into it, but suffice it to say the current landscape is conducive to terrorism. When people don't have rights, when they lose a sense of ownership in their country, they turn to groups like Al Qaeda. It's likecults in our society. It's no coincidence most Al Qaeda's are marginalized mid twenties men. Anyway, Iran could be next, but the US will not stop util that region is stabilized, and yes, it may be ugly in the interim. That is what I think. As to why they haven;t been clear, you'd have to ask them that question.

Hmm, how sure are you that most of Al Qaeda is "marginalized mid-twenties men"? Just because you think something doesn't mean that it will come true. Of course, give it ten years, more people dead, and maybe you will come around. It's funny that you think that the landscape of the middle east will change with the most hated nation(the Unied States)in that region invading countries and pushing influence. I always thought that our influence in that region is what has caused us to have enemies. I think there was some guy who wrote a book recently about terrorism and how alot of terrorist are actually educated people, working people who commit terrorist acts to get people off thier land, not naive 20 yr olds. While it's true that some probably are 20, from the video I've seen on the net of captured insurgents, alot look in thier 30's, maybe older. I think the problem you are running into is that you are completely ignoring the culture in the middle east and how people's view of the world might be. In the US, talk of rights, democracy, and so on is common place, but in the middle east the view might be different with people on how things should be run. Even the view of the US and thier motives could be completely off. I mean, if a country(let's say mexico for example)had a way better military than the US, and attacked us to impose what they viewed as the right way to live, how would you feel?

Alot of this "change the political landscape" in the middle east sounds an aweful lot like the talk that happened during the Cold War. While the US did actually win the cold war by lasting longer than Russia, this is a war on ideology, and the sad thing is that the US has not made themselves look good with things like the abuse scandels, illegal invasion, civilian deaths, and overall threatening the world. While the US does seem to try diplomacy in some ways, they still threaten nations and push thier wieght(which can be expected being a superpower). The thing about it is, that in pushing thier wieght and doing as they please, they push people further from them and further from wanting to believe in them and trusting them as the "good guy." It's been some years now, and there's still attacks everyday. What makes you think that they will stop and everything will suddenly be so peachy and nice? people cross the border into Iraq to fight, and they did the same thing in Afghanistan. I don't really know what to believe in much anymore, but I do know that the US government screwed up by not finding WMD(when Rumsfeld went on about "they are uhhh duuhhh somewhere around Tikrit, and we will get them," and his other bullcrap lines) First off, HE TOLD US THEY WERE THERE, and then made it sound like they were most certainly there and we just had to do some fighting to get them. It was all bullcrap just like this war. If you have an open-mind(I realise the guy is biased and you shouldn't take everything just as he says -- look it up yourself, because he does conspiracy theories)go to www.infowars.net and check out Alex Jones movie "Martial Law - 911 Rise of the Police State." I doubt you will check it out because you seem like one of those guys that only wants to hear one side and dismisses anything that opposes it, but it's a documentary that is way better than michael moores(he makes fun of michael moore in it I think)and the guy pulls up news articles everywhere. He was re-running an episode that he had on local access here in Texas that was from july 2001 when he was talking about news about terrorist flying planes into the world trade center -- at least I think I remember seeing something about. Rant done.

Try to be shorter I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me. Yet you guys are the independant thinkers eh? lol. Listen. I have read countless books on Al Qaeda, and watched a very revealing hidden camera documentary on "The Passionate Eye", hardly a Bush Friendly program. Terrorists are a combination of the marginalized and the militant religious. Contary to popular belief their desire to kill us has little to do with foreign policy.

And stop predicting the future, you have no idea what the next ten years will hold and whether bush will come out looking good...

I don't remember claiming that I was a huge independent thinker? Was that suppose to be a put down? That's kind of lame that you are insecure and need to try to attack people as not being independent thinkers. I don't really see how you can be a huge independent thinker when it comes to these matters because you either agree with the war, don't agree, or don't really care.

touche-- sorry got a little straw man fallacy happening there. I am just used to anti war lefties being holier than thou.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

johnny excellent THINKING. The same questions and analysis I have tried to do.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

johnny : bravo. good post.

and you bring up a very important factor. The culture factor , the history of the region etc. It is presumptuous to think that we here in N.America really know what they think, how they think, what their priorities are etc.......Not sure anyone can even describe their lifestyle... It is so vastly different from ours.

This lack of understanding is a big part of the problem.

It will take the US 5000 years to understand the mind set of the middle east. It is based on different factors than north America. It is tribal, familial. People will come from somewhere else to defend and help. That is how it is there. A man can't stand seeing his wife or daughter being searched. He gets angry, hateful and frustrated. In North America (with all due respect) the boyfriend ask the father that I'll have your daughter on time by ten after I finish with her. it is so normal here yet it is abhors there.

spot on. A different value system ........everything. Good points.

 

[johnnybgoodaaaaa]

I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me.

take a clue from that .

no one appointed you firechief. :roll:

If you;re implying that I should "get on board" with the consensus view that's really weak. It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right. And that the the common wisdom of lefies has historically been almost 100% proven wrong.

Some might say your view is really weak. It's all a matter of viewpoint, and while you might disagree with what some people think here, to be so self-righteous and arrogant really solves nothing. Why can't you be civil and get your point accross without throwing insults and name-calling -- "It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right. And that the the common wisdom of lefies has historically been almost 100% proven wrong."

I think you are trying to piss people off because you come off as a jerk. It's not really what your saying, but how you are going about it that probably pisses people off. If I say "it will never work in the middle east because thier culture is different and I don't think they are ready for it" and then you say "no, it will work, it's already happening becaues they elected a government" both of these are mainly opinion because while they did elect a government, that doesn't mean it will work, because it's still up to the Iraqis. Do you see though how both of these are just opinions and neither of us is truly correct, but just expressing our views. Why not try to be more civil towards people instead of bashing people because they might agree. If everyone here agrees, why do you come here? If it bothers you that there are like-minded people here, I'm sure you can find sites with people who think like you. I've seen your viewpoint plenty, no offense, but your aren't that independent yourself.

 

[mattyaloo]

johnny : bravo. good post.

and you bring up a very important factor. The culture factor , the history of the region etc. It is presumptuous to think that we here in N.America really know what they think, how they think, what their priorities are etc.......Not sure anyone can even describe their lifestyle... It is so vastly different from ours.

This lack of understanding is a big part of the problem.

The problem is that muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes into high profile targets in the most powerul military country the world has ever seen and now we're all wondering what the US is doing in the middle east...

Yes, but why did they hit the towers? Are you trying to tell everyone that for once the cause and effect principle has completely failed, and some guys just woke up one day, said "death to America" and flew planes into the two towers? That just doesn't seem to add up. Why did they fly the planes into the twin towers and not any buildings in Brazil? Why the twin towers and not any other country in the world? I can agree with Afghanistan because it was filled with terrorist camps(which could be a product of US policies, which often create resentment and make it easy to gather followers). When the US bombs and kills people's families, I don't see how those people see thier loved ones as collatoral damage like the US soldiers do. When you do these things, and people who relate culturewise see it, it would, logically, create some sort of resentment. I mean, why do they hate America? There's plenty of other nations who are more liberal and have what could be viewed as "bad" morals and values to muslim fanatics, yet they just go after the US.

you make a good point. and I don't know the answer. nobody really does. The fundamentalists on the Passionate Eye wer more concerned with establishing "new muslim states", and ruling over infidels. ie they now consider France to be "conquered territory" (their words, not mine). I do know that Bin Laden has a hate on for the US because of their troops in the holy land (Saudi Arabia)... but I think he is the exception rather than the rule...Remember Al Qaeda is more like a "web" structure than a "top down" pyramid.

 

[moghrabi]

The problem is that Muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes

we might try to get out of the "Muslim" fixation and just call them terrorists. No need to inflame the Muslim world any more than the US (you ) have.

Has anyone truly addressed the reason for this attack. Maybe their motive was to incite war in the ME. Maybe they understood very well, how the US would react. Maybe it was revenge for something the US has done in the ME.

getting an understanding of the motives is imperative.--otherwise it is just shooting from the hip , while the terrorist groups get more satisfaction at the upheaval they have caused.

Bin Laden mentioned the reason in his last tape. When he saw the cruise missiles hit the towers in Lebanon the idea came to his mind.

I was in Lebanon at that time. And for God's sake, the American Firepower have no heart and soul. The images are still in my mind as it is still happening. This is why you have people decide to hit your towers. It is called taste some of your own poison.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right

:lol:


so when the terrorists pissed the US off , and they were doing something "right"?????


but thanks.......that gives an insight as to where you are coming from....

 

[mattyaloo]

I am putting out alot of fires here reading everyone on this entire site disagreeing with me.

take a clue from that .

no one appointed you firechief. :roll:

If you;re implying that I should "get on board" with the consensus view that's really weak. It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right. And that the the common wisdom of lefies has historically been almost 100% proven wrong.

Some might say your view is really weak. It's all a matter of viewpoint, and while you might disagree with what some people think here, to be so self-righteous and arrogant really solves nothing. Why can't you be civil and get your point accross without throwing insults and name-calling -- "It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right. And that the the common wisdom of lefies has historically been almost 100% proven wrong."

I think you are trying to piss people off because you come off as a jerk. It's not really what your saying, but how you are going about it that probably pisses people off. If I say "it will never work in the middle east because thier culture is different and I don't think they are ready for it" and then you say "no, it will work, it's already happening becaues they elected a government" both of these are mainly opinion because while they did elect a government, that doesn't mean it will work, because it's still up to the Iraqis. Do you see though how both of these are just opinions and neither of us is truly correct, but just expressing our views. Why not try to be more civil towards people instead of bashing people because they might agree. If everyone here agrees, why do you come here? If it bothers you that there are like-minded people here, I'm sure you can find sites with people who think like you. I've seen your viewpoint plenty, no offense, but your aren't that independent yourself.

You guys are more fun. Plus if I can save just ONE lefty in a day, then it was all worth it. :wink: I do find it entertaining to see what's going on behind those Lib blinders every so often and really, if I am abrasive I do apologize but I tend to get my back up when I'm the only one defending my position against an army of maoists...lol

 

[mattyaloo]

It's been my experience that if you're pissing someone off you are doing something right

:lol:


so when the terrorists pissed the US off , and they were doing something "right"?????


but thanks.......that gives an insight as to where you are coming from....

lol maybe they were: if the US was dying to go into Iraq as some on here have suggested, then the Terrorists handed it to them on a silver platter...

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Bin Laden mentioned the reason in his last tape. When he saw the cruise missiles hit the towers in Lebanon the idea came to his mind.

yes, I remember that . One has to wonder why the idea came up to begin with. Something must have been "purculating" on the back burner for some time. Don't think he did it just for kicks.

I can only imagine the ruthlessness of the US military.......So sorry , you had to see it for yourself.

So many don't understand the anger that many feel against the US........and how anger grows into resentment until it boils over into something horrific.

OBL was not the black sheep in the family for nothing. Something was wrong with him for some time. Psychopath comes to mind.

 

[mattyaloo]

The problem is that Muslim extremists made an unwise decision to slam airplanes

we might try to get out of the "Muslim" fixation and just call them terrorists. No need to inflame the Muslim world any more than the US (you ) have.

Has anyone truly addressed the reason for this attack. Maybe their motive was to incite war in the ME. Maybe they understood very well, how the US would react. Maybe it was revenge for something the US has done in the ME.

getting an understanding of the motives is imperative.--otherwise it is just shooting from the hip , while the terrorist groups get more satisfaction at the upheaval they have caused.

Bin Laden mentioned the reason in his last tape. When he saw the cruise missiles hit the towers in Lebanon the idea came to his mind.

I was in Lebanon at that time. And for God's sake, the American Firepower have no heart and soul. The images are still in my mind as it is still happening. This is why you have people decide to hit your towers. It is called taste some of your own poison.

and now you gettin it back...in spades