If God Existed Would You Live Differently?
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we are judged now, and at the end of the day, how we lived is remembered and has a big affect on
how our children live and how we are remembered.
we are judged by living inside the laws of the land, and not becoming a criminal, which also reflects
poorly on everyone closely connected to us.
i can't imagine any god actually being real on this earth, but i know many real people who think they
are a god and should be bowed and scraped to at all times, well, we all know how we feel aobut those
types, so anyone who said they are really god, would be treated the same, get real, get down off of
your pedestal and join the rest of us, you are not respected with that attitude.
jeesh
how our children live and how we are remembered.
we are judged by living inside the laws of the land, and not becoming a criminal, which also reflects
poorly on everyone closely connected to us.
i can't imagine any god actually being real on this earth, but i know many real people who think they
are a god and should be bowed and scraped to at all times, well, we all know how we feel aobut those
types, so anyone who said they are really god, would be treated the same, get real, get down off of
your pedestal and join the rest of us, you are not respected with that attitude.
jeesh
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
I'm pretty sure one of the main points is that if somebody can't literally do what is attributed to God in the Bible then you shouldn't worship them, all people deserve to be respected, none deserve worship for many reasons.
Perhaps a Mod will move it. In the meantime you have heard of New Jerusalem right? 1600 mile cube. The Bible sticking out of the earth is how most people would picture it. Some people did the math below that sort of fits into the 'weird list' but when sectioning it up the ratio that was used should be applied to this old earth. ie at 25,000 miles it should be multiplied by the same 200 and that would be the circumference of the new earth.
Ezekiel's City: Calculating the Earth's Circumference
The Basic Idea
Assuming that all thirteen strips of land are the same width, or rather, assuming that Ezekiel's small-scale representation was intended to represent thirteen strips of land of the same width, we have a map that from top to bottom is:
Perhaps the simplest way to put it is this: If we enlarge Ezekiel's map till Ezekiel's city is the size of Revelation's New Jerusalem, then Ezekiel's map encircles the globe.
The proportion of Ezekiel's city to Revelation's New Jerusalem is the same as that of Ezekiel's map to the earth's circumference:
Let's first use the furlong that most references tend to use, the English furlong of 660 feet. Since the New Jerusalem is 3,000 furlongs to a side,
These extremely small margins of error make the subject more than just intriguing.
The Size of the Temple
We can use the same ratios to calculate the size of the Holy Place and Most Holy Place. Ezekiel's Holy Place was 20 by 40 cubits, and his Most Holy Place was 20 by 20 cubits (Ezek. 41:2, 4).
Since exact precision isn't all that important, we'll just use the furlong of 606.5 ft. We must make two calculations, one for 20 cubits and the other for 40 cubits:
Conclusions
The basic thought is that the new earth will be divided up into thirteen strips of land of equal area, and all the redeemed will get their inheritance in one of those thirteen strips. Another way to look at it would be for the globe to be divided up into thirteen wedges. All the wedges would meet at the equator.
Ezekiel's City: Calculating the Earth's Circumference
The Basic Idea
Assuming that all thirteen strips of land are the same width, or rather, assuming that Ezekiel's small-scale representation was intended to represent thirteen strips of land of the same width, we have a map that from top to bottom is:
13 x 25,000 cubits = 325,000 cubits.
Now we are ready for our calculations. Perhaps the simplest way to put it is this: If we enlarge Ezekiel's map till Ezekiel's city is the size of Revelation's New Jerusalem, then Ezekiel's map encircles the globe.
The proportion of Ezekiel's city to Revelation's New Jerusalem is the same as that of Ezekiel's map to the earth's circumference:
Ezekiel's Map / Ezekiel's City * Revelation's City = Earth's Circumference
Calculations a Bit Off
Let's first use the furlong that most references tend to use, the English furlong of 660 feet. Since the New Jerusalem is 3,000 furlongs to a side,
660 ft. x 3,000 furlongs / (5,280 feet / mi.) = 375 mi. (603.49 km)
Now we plug in the 4,500-cubit length of Ezekiel's city and the theoretical 325,000-cubit length of Ezekiel's map: 325,000 cu. / 4,500 cu. * 375 mi. = 27,083 mi. (43,585 km)
This amounts to an error of just under +9%, which is close enough to be intriguing.
Calculations Right On
Since the apostle John didn't live in England, he never heard of the English furlong. Instead, he used the Roman furlong. The author has found three different measurements for the Roman furlong: 606.25 feet, 606.5 feet, and 606.84 feet.
Using a furlong of 606.25 feet:
606.25 ft. x 3,000 furlongs / (5,280 feet / mi.) = 344.46 mi. (554.34 km)
325,000 / 4,500 * 344.46 mi. = 24,878 mi. (40,036 km)
This result is .071% more than the polar circumference and .098% less than the equatorial circumference.
Using a furlong of 606.5 feet:
606.5 ft. x 3,000 furlongs / (5,280 feet / mi.) = 344.6 mi. (554.56 km)
325,000 / 4,500 * 344.6 mi. = 24,888 mi. (40,052 km)
This result is .112% more than the polar circumference and .057% less than the equatorial circumference.
Using a furlong of 606.84 feet:
606.84 ft. x 3,000 furlongs / (5,280 feet / mi.) = 344.80 mi. (554.89)
325,000 / 4,500 * 344.80 mi. = 24,902 mi. (40,075 km)
This result is .170% more than the polar circumference and .0001% more than the equatorial circumference. These extremely small margins of error make the subject more than just intriguing.
The Size of the Temple
We can use the same ratios to calculate the size of the Holy Place and Most Holy Place. Ezekiel's Holy Place was 20 by 40 cubits, and his Most Holy Place was 20 by 20 cubits (Ezek. 41:2, 4).
Since exact precision isn't all that important, we'll just use the furlong of 606.5 ft. We must make two calculations, one for 20 cubits and the other for 40 cubits:
20 / 4,500 * 344.6 mi. = 1.53 mi.
40 / 4,500 * 344.6 mi. = 3.06 mi.
It is quite possible, therefore, that the heavenly temple which will be outside the New Jerusalem will have a Holy Place about 3 by 1.5 miles, and a Most Holy Place about 1.5 miles square. No wonder the structure can accommodate millions of worshippers.
Conclusions
The basic thought is that the new earth will be divided up into thirteen strips of land of equal area, and all the redeemed will get their inheritance in one of those thirteen strips. Another way to look at it would be for the globe to be divided up into thirteen wedges. All the wedges would meet at the equator.
Under the new, more liberal administration of heaven, being damned to hell has been replaced with being darned to heck.
From Ge:3 to the end of Re:19 there doesn't seem to be much wiggle room for that free-will thing. Because of the Ge:3:15 two bruise determination everything is prophecy and fulfillment. The earliest free will is truly available is right after the Great White Throne event. A drink of water is offered, you can accept or decline it using your own free will, . . . just kidding, God stacks the deck in His favor (again) so He is sure to get the outcome He wants.
Once in the new earth and you and your flesh descendents have a galaxy to run then God might allow you to use free will to guide all those people to the right door when they turn 120 years old. I'm goning to assume for a moment that your current version of changes will be open to slight modifications. The task that makes it all worthwhile is that you get to be like Adam in Eden, creating pastures and such so the 'other flesh' thrives. They would be like Adam, they need food to live and they will know God but not good and evil. We will be equal in power to the serpent in the garden but because of the water and being inside New Jerusalem we cannot create a lie, that was done by an imperfect angelic being. Perfected man is one step above that but one step below perfected angel.
There is no penality for not being gathered by some words in a book. Proof was always going to be made available before any final decisions could be made. That doesn't mean the book isn't written in a style that doesn't make it a 'interesting study'. That means the best 'adventure' today would be going over Daniel:11 and use that as a summation for a 3 1/2 year period that is just prior to the change over to being immortal and breaking that 'go to the grave' thing that hits believer and non-believer alike. Add 3,000 words to it and the mystery is pretty much gone.
So in your opinion you've quite seriously reached the zenith of how you should live? I find that hard to believe. I feel that if people actually believed in God the world would be vastly different. I doubt humanity would be doing much more than living in mud huts sorta waiting to die in order to be born so to speak.
Grainboy,
We might be able to pull a few extra good deeds out of the bag if our conscience is motivated by reward & punishment. However, God is already well aware of our propensity for narcissism. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one. No one truly pursues God. We put Him on the back burner. That is a bigger issue than the number of good works we rack up in this life. Owning or not owning an iphone is not going to send a person to heaven or hell. Ethics, morals, good deeds and kindness to our neighbors make for a pleasant life, but those things do not gain us entrance into heaven.
And I purpose that people do this because they truly do not truly believe........even many of those who identify themselves as religious are quite happy to spend millions over the course of their life in pursuit of their own self comfort rather than give it away and alleviate the poverty of their fellow man. They will spend most of their free time in pursuit of selfish ends rather than donate it to relieve the sufferings of others. They will outright ignore most of the passages in the Bible, Torah or Koran and pick and follow those scriptures which suit them personally.
Yes. We imagine ourselves to be the kings and queens of benevolence. We think we are the apple of God's eye. We expect the red carpet to be unrolled at heaven's gate in anticipation of our arrival. Yet, the truth is that we are mostly self absorbed ignoramus. We plod through life and throw only nickels and dimes at the beggars. We warm the pew, hear a melodic holy tune and imagine ourselves reclined on a perfumed holy cloud. We wait for the applause and perhaps a special feast in our honor will be given.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Seriously? No one? I'll give you a free-fer-nuthin chance to change that to "very few people" before I light into you for invalid categorical statements.
What would be the Greek equivelent as the NT was in Greek originally? I doubt it was the cubit. 1600 is the number for the river of blood that is from the 200M horsemen and their riders. Using an English knight that would make the river about 80 ft wide using the blood volume of a draft horse and a linebacker sized guy. I'm not sure there is anything deeper than playing with numbers that would be above the level of a fisherman on OT Jerusalem. How long was a 'golden reed' (Re:21)if you want something more mystical than cubit.
It would be hard for one to follow them all as there are plenty of contradictions within each of them.
Anybody that enters a Church and makes a donation or buys some icon/book/movie related to God is trying to buy their way into heaven. It doesn't work that way, it is more likely to backfire and keep you from being covered by grace. That is blanket coverage for everybody abd a faslse Christian is punished more that somebody who is waiting for proof. If anybody should be sweating it should be them. You can't determine somebody is going to come in 2nd in a 2 man race and then punish them for not being 1st. That being said coming in 1st should have some reward the others don't get. That reward is they live inside the City and all the others come for visitors and then return back to their homes, like good visitors do.
T-Bones,
I'm very tempted to not recant. It's been awhile since we have bantered. Though, I will give you this one. Yes. I do suppose that we make attempts to pursue God. But, if we are making efforts to pursue God & we are pursuing a false God, does that count as actually pursuing God? Hmmm. Perhaps a topic for a different day.
I await your thrashing for suggesting such a question.