"Identify the Beast"

[look3467]

This is a challenge to all believers and non believers alike, have you wisdom?
I know who it is, and I dare say if I were to reveal it in this thread I will become an outcast.
So, I will give you all a chance to tell me if I am wrong, but first, lets hear it from you all, and at some point I will reveal it.

Peace>>>AJ





Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[darkbeaver]

I am a party beast, invite me I'll proove it.First I'll drink all your liquer then I'll insult your taste in decorating then I'll abuse your pets and finnally I'll pass out in your flowers.

 

[look3467]

I am a party beast, invite me I'll proove it.First I'll drink all your liquer then I'll insult your taste in decorating then I'll abuse your pets and finnally I'll pass out in your flowers.

That's one type. Can you think of any others with a more intelligent explanation?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dexter Sinister]

How can we tell you you're wrong without knowing who you think it is?

The beast appears in Daniel as well. It was a common allegorical way to represent the pagan empires that oppressed the true believers. The beast referenced in Rev. 13:1, with the usual 7 heads and 10 horns, is the Roman Empire. "The name of blasphemy" on its heads refers to worshiping the emperors as gods, which was really just a formality in public rituals intended to bind together the multicultural diversity of the empire, in much the same way as some nations salute their flags and recite pledges of allegiance. Christian refusal to take part in it made them objects of suspicion.

Until relatively recently it was common to use letters of the alphabet to signify numbers, and there are still some people who do it. Jews, Greeks, and Romans all did it; Roman numerals are only the most obvious case. In Greek and Hebrew, every letter was assigned a numerical value, so of course any name made up of those letters could also be assigned a numerical value. Mystics assumed the words of the Bible must have numerical significance as well, and they spent a lot of time and energy trying to tease out meanings from them. It's called "gematria," a minor corruption of the Greek word that gave us "geometry." The number of the beast is the only significant example of gematria in the Bible.

Nero is the person most often advanced as a likely candidate. If you write his name in the Greek form, Neron, add the title Caesar, then write it in Hebrew letters, it adds up to 666. If you leave out the final n on the name, it adds up to 616, and some old manuscripts do give 616 as the number of the beast. But at the time Revelation was written, around A.D. 95, Nero had been dead for a generation, so realistically he seems an unlikely candidate. However, the emperor in A.D. 95 was Domitian, and he was running a pretty heavy persecution of Christians. There's no obvious way from what we know now to manipulate the letters of his name to get 666, but much has been lost to history. Perhaps the Christians had another name for him, like a derisive nickname, that hasn't come down to us.

One thing is pretty clear though, unless you insist on taking Revelation literally: the writer was referring to somebody who was known to his readers at the time. It's not a prediction for our times, its a discussion of what were current events at the time, wrapped in allegorical and metaphorical references to hide its real meaning from the local authorities, but the target audience would have understood it. The beast isn't anybody who's alive today, and if you think it is, you're wrong.

 

[Tonington]

Well, I remember a while back reading somewhere that scholars had analyzed the oldest known transcript of the revelations text, and they thought that the number might actually be 616, not 666. That doesn't really change too much. That verse from revelations was thought to be a coded reference to Nero. The new number would instead be Caligula.

 

[look3467]

How can we tell you you're wrong without knowing who you think it is?

The beast appears in Daniel as well. It was a common allegorical way to represent the pagan empires that oppressed the true believers. The beasts referenced in Rev. 13:1, with the usual 7 heads and 10 horns, is the Roman Empire. "The name of blasphemy" on its heads refers to worshiping the emperors as gods, which was really just a formality in public rituals intended to bind together the multicultural diversity of the empire, in much the same way as some nations salute their flags and recite pledges of allegiance. Christian refusal to take part in it made them objects of suspicion.

Until relatively recently it was common to use letters of the alphabet to signify numbers, and there are still some people who do it. Jews, Greeks, and Romans all did it; Roman numerals are only the most obvious case. In Greek and Hebrew, every letter was assigned a numerical value, so of course any name made up of those letters could also be assigned a numerical value. Mystics assumed the words of the Bible must have numerical significance as well, and they spent a lot of time and energy trying to tease out meanings from them. It's called "gematria," a minor corruption of the Greek word that gave us "geometry." The number of the beast is the only significant example of gematria in the Bible.

Nero is the person most often advanced as a likely candidate. If you write his name in the Greek form, Neron, add the title Caesar, then write it in Hebrew letters, it adds up to 666. If you leave out the final n on the name, it adds up to 616, and some old manuscripts do give 616 as the number of the beast. But at the time Revelation was written, around A.D. 95, Nero had been dead for a generation, so realistically he seems an unlikely candidate. However, the emperor in A.D. 95 was Domitian, and he was running a pretty heavy persecution of Christians. There's no obvious way from what we know now to manipulate the letters of his name to get 666, but much has been lost to history. Perhaps the Christians had another name for him, like a derisive nickname, that hasn't come down to us.

One thing is pretty clear though, unless you insist on taking Revelation literally: the writer was referring to somebody who was known to his readers at the time. It's not a prediction for our times, its a discussion of what were current events at the time, wrapped in allegorical and metaphorical references to hide its real meaning from the local authorities, but the target audience would have understood it. The beast isn't anybody who's alive today, and if you think it is, you're wrong.

Thanks Dexter, for that educational piece. And your right as to all that has been read into it as happing in truth.
But you see, there is still more to it that can not be seen unless we can spiritualize it. The symbols, the numbers are all physical things used by humans, but within them lies the mystery.
Let me quote you scriptures about such a thing:
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

This is understood to mean that things seen, such as the temple made of massive stones could be destroyed, and I will rebuild it in 3 days Jesus said.
That is an impossibility, but Jesus was not talking about the temple temple, but of His own body.

So, unless one is given to understand the spiritual nature of God, all stories and visions are as myths.

How can we tell you you're wrong without knowing who you think it is? >>>Dexter

Well, I will declare the one closest to my view on it, and then I will declare it shortly there after.
I want to hear all the different versions of it first.
Peace>>>AJ

 

[lone wolf]

The Number of the Beast/Iron Maiden

Woe to You Oh Earth and Sea
for the Devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number
its number six hundred and sixty six.

I left alone my mind was blank
I needed time to think to get the memories from my mind

What did I see? Can I believe? That what I saw
that night was real and not just fantasy

Just what I saw in my old dreams were they
reflections of my warped mind staring back at me?

'Cause in my dreams it's always there the evil face that twists my mind
and brings me to despair

The night was black no use in holding back
'Cause I just had to see was someone watching me
In the mist dark figures move and twist
was all this for real or just some kind of hell
666 the Number of the Beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
as they start to cry hands up to the sky
In the night the fires are burning bright
the ritual has begun Satan's work is done
666 the Number of the Beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream?
but I feel drawn towards the chanting hordes
seem to mesmerize...can't avoid their eyes
666 the Number of the Beast
666 the one for you and me

I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I'll have the fire I'll have the force
I'll have the power to make my evil take its course

My best estimate would be Satan - 'cuz Iron Maiden weren't all that bad....

Wolf

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The Second Coming

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all around it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

W. B. Yeats


Evidently Yeats didn't know either.

 

[look3467]

My best estimate would be Satan - 'cuz Iron Maiden weren't all that bad....

Wolf

Obviously, that everybody's best choice, with good reason, but there's still one more.

peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Evidently Yeats didn't know either.>>>Dexter

I agree with you there.
Great poetry, though.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[lone wolf]

Mick an' the boyz never steered me too far from gone either

Sympathy for the Devil/Rolling Stones

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith
And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around at St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a-time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, ah yeah
(whoo whoo, whoo whoo)
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens (whoo whoo)
Fought for ten decades (whoo whoo)
For the gods they made (whoo whoo)
I shouted out, (whoo whoo)
"Who killed the Kennedys?" (whoo whoo)
When after all (whoo whoo)
It was you and me (whoo whoo)
Let me please introduce myself (whoo whoo)
I'm a man of wealth and taste (whoo whoo)
And I laid traps for troubadours (whoo whoo)
Who get killed before they reached Bombay (whoo whoo, whoo whoo)
Pleased to meet you (whoo whoo)
Hope you guessed my name, (whoo whoo) oh yeah (whoo whoo)
But what's puzzling you (whoo whoo)
Is the nature of my game(whoo whoo), oh yeah, get down, baby (whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo, whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo) ..........
Pleased to meet you (whoo whoo)
Hope you guessed my name, (whoo whoo) oh yeah (whoo whoo)
But what's confusing you (whoo whoo)
Is just the nature of my game (whoo whoo) um yeah (whoo whoo)
Just as every cop is a criminal (whoo whoo)
And all the sinners saints (whoo whoo)
As heads is tails (whoo whoo)
Just call me Lucifer (whoo whoo)
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint (whoo whoo)
So if you meet me (whoo whoo)
Have some courtesy (whoo whoo)
Have some sympathy, (whoo whoo) and some taste (whoo whoo)
Use all your well-learned politesse (whoo whoo)
Or I'll lay your(whoo whoo) soul to waste,(whoo whoo), um yeah (whoo whoo)
Pleased to meet you (whoo whoo)
Hope you guessed my name, (whoo whoo) um yeah (whoo, whoo)
But what's puzzling you (whoo whoo)
Is the nature of my game, (whoo whoo) um mean it, (whoo whoo) get down
(whoo whoo) (whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo)(whoo whoo)
Woo, who (whoo whoo)
Oh yeah, get on down (whoo whoo)
Oh yeah (whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo, whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo, whoo whoo)........

Oh yeah! (whoo, whoo)
Tell me baby,(whoo whoo) what's my name(whoo whoo)
Tell me honey,(whoo whoo) can ya guess my name (whoo whoo)
Tell me baby, (whoo whoo) what's my name (whoo whoo)
I tell you one time, (whoo whoo) you're to blame (whoo whoo)
Woo Who (whoo whoo)
Woo Who (whoo whoo)
Woo (whoo whoo) alright (whoo whoo)
Oh, who who, oh, who who, (whoo whoo) oh, who who
Oh Yeah (whoo whoo)
Woo, who who (whoo whoo) Woo, who who (whoo whoo)
Ah yeah, a-what's my name (whoo whoo)

Tell me, baby, (whoo whoo) what's my name (whoo whoo)
Tell me, sweetie, (whoo whoo) what's my name (whoo whoo)

Woo, who, who (whoo whoo)
Woo, who, who (whoo whoo)
Woo, who, who (whoo whoo)
Woo, who, who (whoo whoo)
Oh, who, who (whoo whoo)
Woo, who, who (whoo whoo)
Ah, yeah!
Whoo whoo
Woo Who Who
Whoo whoo

I'll have to go with "Lucifer"....

Wolf​

 

[look3467]

I'll have to go with "Lucifer"....

Wolf

There is allot of truth to the words of that song, in that anything done to anybody else is done by a human.

Hence the number 6, meaning the number of a man.

Two sixes cancel each other out and a new six is introduced.
Peace>>>AJ

 

[karra]

If you were to reveal the identity of the antichrist you would likely suffer a far worse fate than 'outcast' - but, that's not likely to occur as neither you nor anyone else knows the identity. . . .

 

[Sal]

Mick an' the boyz never steered me too far from gone either

Wolf​

HA! I love that song!

 

[Sal]

I used to believe in the Anti-Christ. It used to get me all goose bumpy and excited. Now I just figure, who cares, since I don`t even know if our bible interpretations are anything close to what God wishes from us.

I just figure he`ll let me know if I go wrong and as for the rest, it kinda puts a damper on my day. Life is short. Screw anything that takes away from the joy.

cheers

 

[look3467]

..

.. "as neither you nor anyone else knows the identity. . . .>>>karra

Well, lets wait and see.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I used to believe in the Anti-Christ. It used to get me all goose bumpy and excited. Now I just figure, who cares, since I don`t even know if our bible interpretations are anything close to what God wishes from us.

I just figure he`ll let me know if I go wrong and as for the rest, it kinda puts a damper on my day. Life is short. Screw anything that takes away from the joy.

cheers

Sal, you have a good point, but what about the sale of all those books? How about the sale of all those good songs?
And true, you are right to trust in a God who has us all figured out and still able to love us.
Live for today, for who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I used to believe in the Anti-Christ. It used to get me all goose bumpy and excited. Now I just figure, who cares, since I don`t even know if our bible interpretations are anything close to what God wishes from us.

I just figure he`ll let me know if I go wrong and as for the rest, it kinda puts a damper on my day. Life is short. Screw anything that takes away from the joy.

cheers

The anti-Christ is all around us and has been since the start of time. As per the song "Sympathy for the Devil/Rolling Stones".

These guys didn't realize the truth in what they were panning in words, but knew to write them.

Does it appeal to unbelievers? Yes!

So like they say "God works in mysterious ways'.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Sal]

Sal, you have a good point, but what about the sale of all those books? How about the sale of all those good songs?
And true, you are right to trust in a God who has us all figured out and still able to love us.
Live for today, for who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Peace>>>AJ

Okay, first of all, I have to compliment you on being the least pushy self-proclaiming Christian I have ever met. Well, other than my partner. He is amazing.

If God were actually interested in presentation, He would give you a ten out of ten. Seriously. If I were God, I would. Actually if God exists, I am part of him so would qualify to give you a mark.

Question. What do you mean by `what about all of those book sales...`Sorry for the incorrect punctuation. My computer seems to be in Spanish mode. Can`t get it back so you are stuck with what I have okayÉ hehe

I do trust in God and his ability to present directly to me. We have quite the relationship. Some day I irritate Him Her It.

 

[look3467]

Question. What do you mean by `what about all of those book sales...`Sorry for the incorrect punctuation. My computer seems to be in Spanish mode. Can`t get it back so you are stuck with what I have okayÉ hehe>>>Sal

First of all, I am not pushy because I know what the outcome is, therefore, that frees me up from having to push religion.
What I do instead is share my views, if they are useful to someone, which I hope that might be the case, and let them decide what is good for them.

Thanks for the "madera", but to God be all the glory.

Now for your question.

Well, I was a student of end time prophecy, and took my studies seriously on the subject.
I found hundreds of books written trying to explain the end times.
I found none to my satisfaction, because I didn't want a "maybe so" mentality, but a sure fire one that would give me more truth.
Well, I found it.
And now I share it.
Warning though, its not too popular because it goes against main stream Christianity, yet, is glorifies God and Jesus for all the wonderful work they did and are doing.


Peace>>>AJ