Judging from other separations in history, those born prior to separation would likely keep their pan-Canadian citizenship if precedent should be followed, as the example of Algeria from France, for instance.
How do you rank in your emotional level towards Quebec sovereignty?
- Thread starter Machjo
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Judging from other separations in history, those born prior to separation would likely keep their pan-Canadian citizenship if precedent should be followed, as the example of Algeria from France, for instance.
I voted 7 as I too would love to see them remain as part of Canada, but I'm not prepared to move Heaven and Earth to hang on to a bunch of whining ingrates (if that is what they are going to be) :lol: (I realize most of them aren't like that, but it's still their responsibility to rein in the ones who are)
There have been few separations in the history of the modern Nation State. There have been partitions brought about by war and there have been decolonizations. They are not separations
Czechoslovakia was a separation of distinct entities as were the Hungarian minorities (though it took war for that to come about).
The point of this is that Quebec was not a separate entity.
The French occupied barely a quarter othe territory until it became part of Confederation Most of the other regions had barely hundreds of French settlers and several had a majority of English.
It is not really true that Queec City celebrated its 400th. anniversary as the capital of Quebc and its first major settlement. That settlement was defeated by a British force only twenty years later and was returned to France by the Vritish Crown shortly after as a quid pro quo. Every area of French Quebec was frequently attacked and "conquered" by British forces long before the Plains of Abraham and the territory as a whole was not at any time recognized by Britain as wholly French.
In 1763, there were just 60,000 French settlers: descendants of only about twenty thousand earlier settlers. There were as many English in various areas that became Quebec later. The immigration of the Loyalists brought a fairly equal division. The Gaspe, for one example, was about equal almost 200 years ago.
It is those English Canadians who have been abandoned by Canada and who are cavalierly dismissed as insignificant by the ROC - by those who even know of their existence.
Their Rights as Canadians have been taken away from them by the language laws and so many outside Quebec would call them part of the "whiners." Not a very apt term, btw.
New France most certainly was.
What Britain felt, is wholly irrelevant.
Just you say? Considering the total estimated population of "Canada" of the day, that is a significant number. Your trivialization of such facts, is why your opinions, lack any credibility.
The bulk of which were funneled there by policy, in an attempt to overwhelm and assimilate the French population.
At the end of the 18th century, the population of the seven colonies of British North America (Lower Canada, Upper Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, St. John Island, and Cape Breton Island) totalled approximately 390,000 inhabitants, not including the aboriginal peoples. In addition to the 200,000 inhabitants of French origin who had settled in the St. Lawrence Lowlands (now Lower Canada), there were 140,000 British settlers: 70,000 in the Maritimes, 25,000 in each Canada, and some 20,000 in Newfoundland. In the West, still a largely uncharted region, there were probably about 40,000 inhabitants. The residents of Upper and Lower Canada would now have to cope with the difficult beginnings of linguistic duality.
The creation of Upper and Lower Canada (1791) | Site for Language Management in Canada (SLMC)
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I could say that of your post that makes assertions without support. Britain adopted a policy of assimilation after 1763 but not of extinction of the language or culture. It merely was one that decreed the embracement of British institutions and governmental ways.
Try showing what was the population of Canada of the day before implying whatever you think you are implying. (Gerry! what do you think you are trying to say? It is no different from what I posted).
New France was not a separate entity since it's control shifted between Britain and France several times before finally falling to Britain and being abandoned by France to the British. The elites returned to France after the conquest.
When you say that what Britain felt was irrelevant then you deserve the appellation to that of "rubbish." Wars are irrelevant!
Are you aware, btw, that Montreal and Western Quebec remained part of Quebec Province only at the insistence of the English merchants of Montreal who were afraid that Montreal would be marginalized by Toronto.
There was also a strong moement for a third province from Montreal to Kningston that they opposed, successfully.
Say what?????????????? This is what you posted
By the end of the 18 century...less than 40 years after your posted date, the population of French in Lower Canada was 200,000 with ONLY 25,000 brits. How is what you posted and what I posted any where near the same?
Read my statement again, gerry. The part you put in red.
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My emotional level is hysterical.
Not sure if it has anything to do with Quebec though. Might have something to do with people talking out of the hole in their heads. The weird squeaking sound it makes coming out of that tiny hole make me belly bounce up and down.
Not sure if it has anything to do with Quebec though. Might have something to do with people talking out of the hole in their heads. The weird squeaking sound it makes coming out of that tiny hole make me belly bounce up and down.
Lord Durham spoke of assimilation, and overwhelming the French in British culture, specifically!
Why is it I have to show evidence, when you just make claims?
I'll simply cite Gh's link, as it shows how out to lunch your posts have been. A handful? Over 50% of the population, no matter where you get your estimated figures, is not a handful.
Only because it suits your opinion. I stand by the fact that what the British felt, is irrelevant.
Odd poll, when the same response can indicate either a negative or a positive position on the question. If I select option 9, for instance, you can conclude I have very strong feelings about it, but you won't know whether I'd like to kick Quebec out of the federation or fight to the death to keep it in. On the basis of present results you can say that over 38% of people report having moderately to very strong feelings about it, but you can't tell which side they're on. I don't see how that's useful information.
yeah, guess thats right, but I mentioned that 'both' sides need to listen to themselves.
if those inside of quebec did vote to separate, what then do you think would happen
within that province, it seems to me there would be chaos, possibly a civil war
within their borders, can't see the others standing by, 'first nations' especially,
following along like sheep, and the rest of canada would side with those who
want to stay and the outcome would be bloodshed, lots of lost lives, and a lose
lose situation, and when the dust settles, much worse than it is today, but
quebec would still be part of canada, with many pouters gathering to start up
another separatist gang.
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Not totally useless, gives a good indication about how many are willing to stir up sh*t over it, so you know how secure to build your bunker!
Never cared either way.... if they want to stay, so be it... if they want to leave, fine by me. Any province should be able to leave on their own accord.... all the provinces of Canada weren't always a part of Canada anyways. To think you can be a part of the country, but then you can never leave & forever stuck as being a part of the country doesn't seem too democratic or free to me.
And if Natives wish to band together and form their own territory and break away from the country to be their own independent "Nation".... I don't see a problem with that either.
Knowing you, Gerry, you wouldn't have to................your wrath is just as formidable! :lol:
Quebec separation meets ambivalence as more Canadians ‘don’t really care’
Back in 1969, when six members of a young comedy troupe were mulling names for their new show on the BBC, the title Whither Canada? was suggested by one of the group.
Wisely, the name was ditched it in favour of Monty Python’s Flying Circus (while retaining it as the title of the first episode of the first series).
The initial attraction was, presumably, its absurdity – what could be of less interest than domestic Canadian politics and the constant French-English bickering?
more
Quebec separation meets ambivalence as more Canadians say they
* My brainfart...should have been posted here Mr. Mod: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/107328-quebec-sovereignty-rise-5.html
Thankee
Back in 1969, when six members of a young comedy troupe were mulling names for their new show on the BBC, the title Whither Canada? was suggested by one of the group.
Wisely, the name was ditched it in favour of Monty Python’s Flying Circus (while retaining it as the title of the first episode of the first series).
The initial attraction was, presumably, its absurdity – what could be of less interest than domestic Canadian politics and the constant French-English bickering?
more
Quebec separation meets ambivalence as more Canadians say they
* My brainfart...should have been posted here Mr. Mod: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/107328-quebec-sovereignty-rise-5.html
Thankee
Originally Posted by Cabbagesandking: And that all those English speaking Canadians who live in the Province of Quebec can be abandoned and left to the tender mercies of a gang of xenophobes who are determined to eradicate English in Quebec.
s_lone replied: Paranoid.
The rest of Cabbage's semi-coherent raving aside, this statement is not paranoid, as evidenced by Quebec's current draconian (and unconstitutional) language laws. The provincial gov'ts of Quebec have systematically attacked anything other than "Quebecois" culture, but especially English, in the name of protecting what they define as Quebec's culture. Their openly discriminatory tactics have been distinctly at odds with behavior that I think of as reflecting Canadian values. There may be a certain level of validity in the arguments the PQ and BQ can make to Quebecers but we cannot pretend there isn't a level of ugliness to the movement as well.
As far as the OP goes, my emotional commitment level to the separation issue is actually pretty low. I'm from Alberta and from my perspective, Quebec's complaints seem to be over dramatized a lot of the time. I've never been there, I feel no special affinity for the place, or people (I've met some Quebecers that have been nice people but not unusually so) and I have no real appreciation for what Quebec contributes to the country that we can't either replace ourselves or do without, should they leave. I can admire the Machiavellian-esque nature that Quebecers seem to display in dealing with Ottawa in the fashion they are but I also think that for the most part, La Belle Provence should get told to get stuffed and leave if they think things are so bad for them. I also feel that if they DO leave, they shouldn't get any special consideration from the country that remains.
s_lone replied: Paranoid.
The rest of Cabbage's semi-coherent raving aside, this statement is not paranoid, as evidenced by Quebec's current draconian (and unconstitutional) language laws. The provincial gov'ts of Quebec have systematically attacked anything other than "Quebecois" culture, but especially English, in the name of protecting what they define as Quebec's culture. Their openly discriminatory tactics have been distinctly at odds with behavior that I think of as reflecting Canadian values. There may be a certain level of validity in the arguments the PQ and BQ can make to Quebecers but we cannot pretend there isn't a level of ugliness to the movement as well.
As far as the OP goes, my emotional commitment level to the separation issue is actually pretty low. I'm from Alberta and from my perspective, Quebec's complaints seem to be over dramatized a lot of the time. I've never been there, I feel no special affinity for the place, or people (I've met some Quebecers that have been nice people but not unusually so) and I have no real appreciation for what Quebec contributes to the country that we can't either replace ourselves or do without, should they leave. I can admire the Machiavellian-esque nature that Quebecers seem to display in dealing with Ottawa in the fashion they are but I also think that for the most part, La Belle Provence should get told to get stuffed and leave if they think things are so bad for them. I also feel that if they DO leave, they shouldn't get any special consideration from the country that remains.
The reason why I can say it's paranoid to think anglophones would be left to ''the tender mercies of a gang of xenophobes who are determined to eradicate English in Quebec'' is that I myself am a anglo-Quebecer. To tell the truth, I'm a ''Franglo'' because I come from bilingual family. The fact is that while measures to protect French are indeed strict, there is nothing in the way for English to thrive in Quebec. Come and take a stroll with me downtown Montreal and prove me otherwise!
I went to elementary school in English as all people of the anglophone community of Quebec have the right to do. I've now been living in Montreal for 8 years and know enough about the city to say that the English language is here to stay no matter what. French Quebecers are pretty hot-blooded when it comes to protecting French and the culture that comes with it. But they're not the frickin' nazis some like to believe! Based on the Cabbagesandking's tone, Quebec would become like this if it was a country:
THE FOURTH REICH - YouTube
The language laws in Quebec don't have as a goal to eradicate English, they have as a goal to protect French and that's a whole different affair. Taking the necessary means to defend oneself doesn't mean you're out to destroy others.
My one bugaboo with Quebec French will always be the variations in language from one part to another. Sure.... Protect the language - but which variant? Lawyer French or Joual?